Twinky

What a gruesome report. I feel sorry for these poor beguiled people. I pray they'll come to their senses, and that this wretched abusive "minister" is quickly made to face justice for her behaviour.

It's easy to look from across the pond and think how bizarre all this Q stuff is. Very hard for people who have "lost" relatives to this online cultish thing. Just as it was hard for our relatives when we disappeared into TWI. Hopefully there will be post-Q help sites set up by escapees.

Yet another all too familiar story. Sad. I hope that the people she names (esp PB) don't take it upon themselves to sue her for libel. Or set TWI's lawyers onto her, to gag her.

Would be good if they can keep their own organisation clean. The UK branch of Zacharias's organisation has already distanced itself and has adopted a new name. However, I think there will always be predators - this abusive culture isn't new, and has been going on centuries (millennia?) and will continue for more centuries. I follow with suspicion a cult in a remote South Island of New Zealand area, and rejoice every time there is a family that escapes. It's in many ways like the communal culture of TWI, mixed with forced "kibbutz" type living. The people choose to live there - but it's a choice with no alternatives. They've little idea of life outside their cult. And yes, there is sexual abuse as well as spiritual abuse.

I read about him in the Church Times (an Anglican newspaper) some weeks ago. sad. Same sh1t, different faces. I'll check out the video later.

That's outrageous, JCS. First, even taking a little money for ice creams - then taking more for private use for a car radio - on the field, people weren't allowed to dip into the ABS even to provide refreshments for the PFAL class, not that milk, coffee and a little cake or cookies cost a lot. Your mother sounds like she not only drank the kool-aid but wallowed in it too. I pray her head is in a better place now.

Oh, tell more! When/what year was this? (Do you mean, adulterous? Nearly everyone, unfortunately, was adulatory)

Some misguided soul in Belize seems to have put this together. Must have taken some work. Pity the author didn't spend that amount of time doing something useful - personal Bible study, for example. Or reading this website.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (George Orwell, Animal Farm)

Love this, T-Bone

Welcome, Grace and Truth. Thank you for sharing your journey in such an articulate post. Many of us still here can relate to what you said. It wouldn't have made any difference to them; all it would have done is hastened your exit. You'd've invited more "reproof" and ultimately likely would have been marked and avoided. Many did confront what they saw, and got kicked out. Some are still trying to do that: witness the Revival and Restoration band, of quite a lot of The Bigs; totally ignored by TWI. Usually after being kicked out, and when you have no opportunity to respond, you'd've been badly slandered, called "possessed," and generally vilified. That's a "treat" that you avoided and don't need to know about. Sit down and join us for a while. Have a cup of coffee. Waysider will probably offer you a beer.

I wondered if anyone apart from ex-Wayfers ever talked about "the red thread." Or whether it was only ex-Wayfers (usually pushing their own wannabe ministries) that got excited about the idea. Several of the sites I looked at that described red thread are clearly ex-Wayfers; the Jesus descriptions are the same, and the wording of any supporting paragraph is the same old jargon - even though many don't give any names in the About Us section of their websites. It was something that was relevant to my housegroup discussions on Wednesday evening. They were very interested when I asked if anyone had heard of the red thread and wanted to know more. But the last thing I want to do is push TWI type doctrine on this lovely group of people.

Yes, Jesus in every book. In researching whether anybody else thinks this apart from Wayfers, I came across something that looked quite interesting - but then I discovered it was the exact list, with scripture references - produced by an ex-Wayfer in his own mini-ministry. The Oral Roberts version gives different "identities" (also with verses) and there are references on other sites. It leads to the consideration of how legit those sites are - who produces the materials thereon, what's their basis, background, theological position? (I'm getting cynical and suspicious in my old age!)

It was that "Fourth man thingy, but OR used different descriptors. So where the heck did VPW get his descriptors? Surely ... did he read and study his Bible?

I found my Red Thread long-sleeve T shirt recently. I don't plan on ever wearing it again. But I was interested to consider where the supposed "red thread" came from. It's still an idea propagated by ex-Wayfers. I listened to some of the OR tape. He lists his "fourth man" in every book of the bible, but giving different "descriptors" of who or what the red thread is. So did VPW invent these "descriptors" (for want of a better word)? Because clearly they aren't Roberts's descriptions. It's something that came up in my church housegroup this evening. Nobody else has heard of any "red threads" and it was a novel concept to them. But I don't want to be spouting off about something that's essential Wayfer doctrine. Happy to share if it's somebody else's idea. Further thoughts, anyone?

The whole SP thing was yet another scam. SPs were supposed to provide for your funding and everything else. It was "godly" to support people through their Corps training. And some people who could better have used the money to support their families did help sponsor in-rez corps through the training indoctrination. A lot of money was paid for the training, which included of course the accommodation (free to TWI, they owned the land and buildings) and food (at minimal cost, since they grew quite a bit of it). But the cost for the training... it wasn't training. Your mother shouldn't have touched money that was your compensation. It should have been held in trust for you with two trustees (she'd be one). Maybe you could sue your mom to try and get the money back, if she has any assets, but that'd trash forever any relationship you have. I suppose what you really want is an acknowledgement and a sincere apology. Whether you ever get that will depend on how deeply indoctrinated she remains, after all this time.

It's true. I completely lost sight of Jesus in my Way years. Big concept of God, and who God is. Lost concept of Jesus, and who he is. TWAP. Haha. That's funny, so close to ... a word that might get changed if I write it. T at the end. The Way of Abasement and Powerlessness. That'll do.

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

LOL, Allan.

"The Giver and His Gifts" is probably worthwhile reading and keeping. It is a written work stolen by Wierwille and more or less reproduced by him as Receiving the Holy Spirit Today ("the White Book"). Likewise "The Gift of the Holy Spirit" is likely worthwhile: JE Stiles is who VWP stole his "Foundational Class" from. Your concordance is probably worthwhile, TWI wouldn't have interfered with that too much. The other books are well worthy of the incinerator In other words: worthless. Be very patient. Be kind and not confrontational. Do not let them browbeat or be confrontational: just present what facts you knwow. And pray for them, pray that they be enlightened. If they have a genuine desire to know God, God can show them where they are wrong in their beliefs. God is bigger than any of us can begin to imagine. I am sure God is working in their hearts to show them a different path; they just need help to see that different path. God bless you and keep you peaceful in your endeavours to release your family from the bondage of TWI. Pray for them; but it is not you who will release them from bondage, it is the Lord.

D'ya reckon she's negotiating for a place in or near the fountain of living waters? (That memorial to the dead!!)

No change there, then. It doesn't get any better, either.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what Friend's parents are doing to help their community - you don't say if they live in the same area and I sense they may live at HQ or close to it. (If you live near each other, maybe you can ask them to join you at the Foodbank/debt counselling center/collection of prescriptions etc etc. I can see that going down well, LOL.) Ask what TWI is doing to help others. Choose your crisis. What - and where - are they doing things to help alleviate suffering from that crisis? If the answer is still "We teach people The Word," well, you know that words and actions that don't match are not Godly. It's all talk, talk, talk. No walk, walk, walk. I can only say that my tiny church puts its actions where its mouth is. Food parcels for those with too little money to look after themselves and their families; cooking meals to deliver to housebound; visiting; finding clothes or blankets or furniture; caring phone calls to those who can't be visited; comforting the bereaved and "being there" for those who are developing mental health issues - and so on - for those who have little else in their lives and nowhere to turn to. Individuals help as wider community volunteers, at refuges, foodbanks, marshalling at mass vaccination centers, all sorts. And all where we're in lockdown and not allowed to visit unless essential and we have to keep 6 or 8 feet apart. Nobody tries "preaching the gospel," quoting Bible verses, or urging to come to church; but actions have won people and the church is growing! The church is busier than ever - and normal activities continue as best as possible, with Zoom church, Zoom kids' club, Zoom youth club, Zoom coffee mornings, etc etc. Now. What is TWI doing? What are Friend's parents doing? What is HQ doing?

You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.

What Outie said. Don't worry about going to a church other than the Catholic one. God wants people to love him, and that's across all denominations - or none. God didn't desire division and denominations. God doesn't even require you to attend church, though he does say it's good to assemble together from time to time. You may find any Way fellowship very pleasant, to begin with. Friendly people, and seem interested in you. But they will gently or not-so-gently pressure you into taking The Class or whatever they're calling it these days. ("Have you taken the class yet?" and "Oh, there's an answer to that question in the class, about session **.") The Class version they have now is not what most of the posters here will have taken - but that's not to say that the content and intent isn't the same. It presents a selective version of Christianity, and God, and there's no opportunity to ask questions during the (usually) taped/CD classes. If you were to start the Class then drop out, I can pretty much guarantee that your friend would take off and you would be shunned by everyone in the fellowship group. As your friend's parents are high-ups in TWI, then your friend was probably more or less raised in TWI and has some strange thinking patterns. Stay open to discussion with friend, but don't get sucked in to the organization. It could be that you are the only external person that your friend dare trust, if s/he's thinking of making a getaway. If that happens, be very patient. Friend will be in real culture shock. Collectively, we may know something about the parents (though our knowledge as a group is a bit dated). You are always welcome to come here and ask questions. If you think you see a bit of a red flag about some practice or doctrine, don't ignore it but come and ask. Most of us here wish we'd paid early attention to those red flags, and not shut our eyes and jumped down the rabbit hole. One more thing. Draw up a seat and have a cup of something and a bite to eat, before you start your adventures.