Twinky

Wish I could watch it, but not available in the UK.

One hopes that he is giving 20% of his il-gotten gains back to TWI.

Less Than, there are lots of archived old documents elsewhere on this site - unfortunately not as easily accessible as they used to be when the site was hosted differently. However, you might find this thread really helpful and very enlightening: And Grace, I'm not sure if you've looked at this old threads etc yet. You'd find them interesting too.

Chockfull, neither you nor any of us will be "fixed" until Christ returns and fixes us. Meantime, we just keep doing our best and look to him to cover the rest. I'm very thankful for the love and patience shown to us specifically whilst we're recovering from Waydaze. The kindness shown by some people is more healing than they could ever know.

Welcome, Less Than. Praise the Lord you are less than TWI would turn you into, and More Than anything they could offer. Making you feel "less than" and not good enough is standard TWI technique, and it leaves big scars and holes in one's self-respect. You will find others here who were kids raised in TWI - I think you as a group have your own particular issues to exorcise. Actually, what Rocky posted just yesterday, a TED talk, could be really helpful for you. The speaker is a young woman who was raised in an abusive cult. Meantime, this is a great place for you to vent your anger, frustrations, and hang-ups. We've all been there. It's also very much okay for you to seek help from a therapist. If you had a broken leg, you'd seek help from a doctor, wouldn't you? Right. So seek help for your broken thinking. Say how you felt unsupported when your father died. Let it meander on from there. Maybe your therapist will be able to offer some strategies to help you "deal with" the anticipated conflict with your mum.

Good talk, lots of quotable lines. "Grow up and realise you can leave," being just one of many.

I think that's about the size of it, Socks. It's just business - to defame others, to blame them for everything that you don't like (on a whim or for some other reason). It isn't love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, or even bearing another's burden. One might wonder how these R&R signatories are faring in the real world without compelled followers or anyone who gives a shred of credence to what they're peddling; wonder if they have any regrets about how they oppressed those over whom they exercised "spiritual oversight," and how they castigated them when their "believing" seemingly failed to meet required standards; wonder if they're finding their leadership styles don't engender suitable awe in the secular workplace. But nobody should wonder too much!! Life's too short!!

Gosh, Spec. That's a long read. Haven't looked at it yet (it's midnight). Saved for another day's reading.

Heh, Spec, it was the "research" as much as anything that excited me, too. In fact, pre-PFAL, I asked if the Dead Sea Scrolls would have any impact on the research, and whether there was any Way material that could be studied. Initially I was met with blank or sideways looks, and later, "You can ask that question, take PFAL first, you can write to HQ." Of course, that never happened. I also asked if they were proposing to put out their own Bible, based on their research, and was told that as it was a research ministry, it would be better not to, because research was discovering new things all the time and TWI would have to keep amending any Bible version they produced. It sounded exciting, like there was a big bunch of people really digging around for new light. ...Now, I'm minded to think that they had nothing but VPW's expanded literals according to usage, or whatever pompous name they were called, which would be laughable anywhere outside TWI - those "literals according to usage" that weren't directly pinched from the Amplified Version or similar.

As a matter of fact, it appears that Teresa of Avila wrote this not about God but about Christ. I found this online, from "A Catholic Prayer Book" found on catholicity.com - ((Gosh I wish this site wouldn't mess the quotes about, or am I doing something wrong? Anyway the last bit following, with the link to Annie Flint's poem, shouldn't be part of the quote, but an extra paragraph.)) Prayer of Saint Teresa of Avila (1515-1582)

WTH, Chockfull?!?!

Hi you too, T-Bone!

Hi Chocky. Thx your message. Our paths may have crossed. There is much about that time that I simply do not remember. I call that time, and particularly the post-TWI period, "The Lost Years."

Welcome, Sastian. As you say, perhaps not a great thread to start with! DontWorryBeHappy doesn't pull his punches. There are less challenging places to start. Do tell us about yourself in New Members. Somebody will offer you a coffee soon, no doubt. Waiter here doesn't seem to like me and thinks I've ordered too much coffee already.

Love it! I was witnessed to by a WoW in the UK in 1985. Went in rez in Ohio about 1991-93 then led a WoW team in another country. There was a strong suggestion I might be recalled to the US in some capacity after that, a prospect that filled me with dread. Got myself DFAC'd instead in Feb 1995 (I think). Thoroughly indoctrinated (and having given up a potentially very good career and all my friends and family), I was desperately miserable for a decade until I discovered the Cafe. Then, I was appalled. And then - I was set free - yay!!!! In the UK, I got to meet with a number of European believers, including US and UK trained Corps. While I was in the USA I travelled a bit and met / stayed with a few believers and got to know lots of others at ministry events like RoA and special events. I met DWBH (and several of you other posters here. Hi T-Bone!) a few years later in Texas. How does that fit with your dates, Chocky? You have said before, but I've forgotten.

Thanks, DWBH. Been a long time...

In the photo, who's the man nearest the camera? I probably ought to recognise him, but it's been a long time. No idea who the two youngsters might be.

Don't forget - Corps are there for a "lifetime of service." Only what was meant was, a lifetime of servitude. Why else do you suppose TWI pushed so much the doulos (bondservant) aspect? Jesus called his disciples "friends," not servants. We aren't required to be servants any more. Remember this? Eph 2:6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him [Christ] in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" and the teaching that when the work is done, then the person is seated (why Christ is seated at the right hand of God - because his work of redemption is complete. There are no slaves or servants in the heavenly places - their work is completed too. Why? Because of God's desire to show his graciousness to us. Read the beginning of Eph 4 again. Look at love, grace, mercy, kindness. Pretty good retirement scheme, huh? Even though Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God, however, he still works through his body, the church, to which he has committed the ministry of reconciliation. One has to suppose that Jesus must be working by choice if his work on earth is done. And we too can choose daily if we want to fulfill the ministry that has been assigned to us. With God, it's always "Choose ye this day ..." not "this day you are compelled ..."

One might suppose that Ros-a-Lie sets the example by not retiring. She's making a better fist (as in tight fisted) than VPW, who basically got sidelined. She's made d@mn sure she's not going to get sidelined like that. Therefore, everyone has to follow her example. I attend two churches. In both, recently, the vicar or rector (minister) has just retired, Paul about 10 months ago and Edward in November. Their retirement was planned for, and welcomed (with regret) by their congregations, who acknowledged that these ministers had "paid their dues," (with regret by the congregation because they were popular ministers, lovely men). I recall some years ago, the PCC was pushing for a raise in the stipend for a previous vicar (another Paul), because he needed to plan for his retirement. All of these men have gone on to continue serving other congregations, taking a different role from leadership/ministering, but still vitally involved in congregations in their new areas. Nobody makes them; they do so because they love to serve. But it gives them the opportunity to serve in a different capacity, according to their abilities now and in the foreseeable future. If TWI left people alone and stopped interfering, they'd probably find that many would have stuck around anyway to continue to serve, in whatever capacity. But legalism, compulsion, kills the joy of giving and of serving. But hey - can't teach an old cult new tricks.

Oh, I see elsewhere you said 14 years in TWI and 18 years with Geer. That's a lot of baggage. You won't unpack it all at once, but you'll do it much quicker here than on your own. We know what you've been through, and you can "vent" here. It is wonderful to enjoy the peace that passes understanding, and to learn to be quiet with the Lord and just enjoy his company. You don't have to do, you just have to be. The Lord welcomes you with open arms. He promises you freedom. He paid the price for your freedom. Enjoy a walk in the park with him. Or a beer in the pub.

Well done, annio. It takes years to disentangle properly from TWI doctrine and practices. But examine everything; keep what is good You said elsewhere you're going to a church; ask them if you have doctrinal concerns, and you don't have to accept their answer! They might be right, might be wrong, but it's another point of view that you can consider. Sit back and see what your church does, and how they treat each other and outsiders. Are they kind and welcoming, or legalistic (you can easily spot that one!). For example, for a while, I would deliberately go to church late (because in TWI 10 mins early is "late") - I was always welcomed kindly, given the notice sheet, and found a seat. Not one word about being late. I was in a housegroup and they were all mature Christians; I'd challenge their views (because they weren't like TWI doctrine) - they put up with me patiently despite (as a friend told me later) them thinking I had some very odd ideas and was a bit weird. I undertook a one-year course at a local Bible college (one evening a week) to find out "mainstream" views, and found a variety of views from the guest teachers, some of whom were excellent, one showed himself to be a bully (he wasn't invited back) - by this time I had the courage to discuss one idea with my church leaders and they thought it was very strange too. There is a wide variety of views in the Christian community but God will lead you to a place that is best for you, now; later, another place might be more appropriate for where you are on your journey. That's fine. You didn't say how long you'd been in or how old you are now; if raised as a child for more than a couple of years, there'll be a lot you need to work through. Take your time. Whatever you do, wherever you find yourself, live kindly and with compassion. Seek others who live kindly and compassionately. Be kind to yourself. Oh, and read Bibles other than KJV. Too loaded. I found The Message (wildly different!) a good way to start reading again. Made me think and not gloss over or jump into TWI thinking patterns. There are threads here about different Bible versions, and why people who still read Bibles read the versions they do. Blessings!

When I first found the Cafe, annio, I spent so much time reading ... I didn't have internet at home, so stayed after work reading and reading. I was shocked, appalled, and ultimately freed from a lot of misery. Would leave very late - got locked in twice (was discovered at 10pm, where did the previous five hours go!?) - happily, one time the cleaners disturbed me, and the second time, the IT guy was fixing some things. Otherwise, I guess I'd have been very early for work the next day...! Carry on reading!

Welcome, Stillconfused. I hope you'll find that this site unpicks some of the TWI blindness. Whatever the reason you and your family have got out, you'll find things here that help you get your mind back in order. There are, or were, others here who "grew up" in TWI. There must be a lot of baggage for you to offload. Perhaps you could tell us something of your story, only as much as you're comfortable with, in the New Members section. Meantime, let's see if we can't find a cup of coffee for you.

Do the last few posts here need shifting to the Trinity thread? As to Billy Graham (to keep this on track) - regardless of his faults (and who hasn't got faults?), he caused many people to want to know Christ, and to make commitments to learn, find out more. I do not know that he bullied people into submission, but he presented the gospel in a way that was exciting, fresh, interesting, and whet people's appetites to know more. At his rallies, he had people from local churches come and assist, so that they could take new committers under their wings. I don't know that he got people "born again" - I don't know who can say this for true. I do know that he started many people on a path where they could become born again, be saved, become Christians - put it how you will. Some, he may have offered a "faith revival" and that encouraged them to "return to the faith." He had a big, positive, impact on people's lives, likely more than any poster here, and certainly more than TWI ever did.