Twinky

Feel free to post ONE THING that you learned from PFAL here, and what its benefit has been in your life. After all, this is called GROWING PAINS and if you learned something from PFAL that is not available elsewhere then let's hear it. I discount anything from the material that was plagiarised (stolen) from other authors. Alternatively, you could start your own thread - "Things I learned from PFAL" or some such title.

I've worn contact lenses for about 45 years. One is for distance vision, the other is a reading lens. It took me at least 30 years to work out that the lenses functioned differently. My brain automatically selects the focusing distance it needs and I am completely unaware of which eye I am focusing through. Uncorrected vision in the dominant eye is -7, in the other eye -2. I don't think it works quite like that with spectacles, as the lens is further from the eye. Mike, you might want to try contacts if you are still having problems. Soft lenses are very easy to adapt to.

Mike, try reading my two posts of 10 hrs ago (higher up this same page 12).

How I love the way Mike picks and chooses what he will write about. Ignores me as usual, except when he thinks I support some point of his. Which is inevitably an untrue assumption by him. At least from a brick wall there's a possibility of an echo. Good post, as usual, T-Bone.

Shunning is such a mean and cowardly act. The JWs are just like TWI in the way they've hurt this family. I can see the poor woman who killed her family as being mentally ill herself, caused by their callousness.

But this needs shifting from About the Way. What fellowship has light with darkness?

Just heard this. A great loss. A brother in Christ of whom the Lord will be saying, "Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!"

Mike, you don't need to WITNESS (by which I assume you mean observe, or perhaps be the object of) evil to know it. And to know what it is. D'ya reckon Eva Braun thought Adolf Hitler was a nice man, and his actions could be separated from the Nazi regime? Would you look to Mein Kampf for guidance in life issues? Or, bang up to the minute, d'ya suppose Jacob Zuma's six wives think he's a great guy, was great for the country of South Africa and did it a lot of good - despite the serious corruption charges that have forced him to resign from the presidency? Would you look to what he said (rather than what he did) for guidance in life issues? You are surrounded here by a "great crowd of witnesses" whose evidence covers at least three decades of TWI history. Pretty much all of those witnesses attest to the dictatorship of and corruption within the regime instigated by a certain person. To persist in denying the evidence of these many witnesses is to say that they are at best delusional and at worst, outright liars; frauds, perhaps. You slap the witnesses in the face by continually denying their evidence; you insult and belittle them. WHERE is your new-found empathy? Why can you not hear? Why can you not see? Does Gen 3:1-13 apply in your case? Then the Lord God said to Mike, “What is this you have done?” Mike might have said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” But he didn't, because he still doesn't see that he has been deceived. Have a good look, Mike. Who has deceived you? The great crowd of witnesses here quietly drinking coffee, or the person who's been nicking the toilet paper?

If you look back at old threads, you'll find that the GS community HAS ALREADY HELPED VERY MANY PEOPLE to recover from the hurt inflicted by TWI. And if you, Mike, adopt a realistic model, and not the "Pure Good" that you seem to have adopted, you might find that you could help much better those who are trying to escape TWI's influence. And not just those people - you could help much better those in the world who suffer so many difficulties in daily life.

You're not into bright colors, OS?

Hi Mike. That's a more encouraging response than I'd expected. Thank you. I do have to take issue with you on one point: It's not so much "will" or "desire" as hearing the deeper heart issues, the words that are not said, the hurt that is not expressed. Sometimes a carefully worded question will elicit further information, and sometimes not. Sometimes the "action that assists" is simply to be there, to sit, to let the person talk - or not. And you listen with your inner heart, listen with as much as you can understand of God's heart. It's called empathy (not at all like sympathy!). I do not think you will get this level of intimacy at a dance club involving hundreds of people. That's a way of being with people, without actually engaging with them as individuals. In any large group, there is little space for intimacy. Sad to say, people can even go to large churches for years and yet never get engaged or involved with others, and so their needs go unmet.

Send him to the electric chair!

Welcome, GoldStar. Full marks for finding us. As you've already noticed, we have the occasional bunfight around here. But at least, we're at liberty to disagree Have fun!

That wouldn't have been Claw-dettee Royal, would it?

I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL. I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box? How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather? Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship. Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.

Mike: you are now claiming to "like learning." And for some obscure reason you think proofs are not possible in the (shall we call it?) metaphysical area. This thread is basically for YOU to show how YOU are learning - in precisely that metaphysical area of life - your understanding and empathy of PEOPLE. How YOU understand now about the hurt that has been caused. I am STILL WAITING for you to share any genuine expression of empathy, understanding, care, concern, for the people whose lives have been so very damaged. and for the ongoing hurt and damage, that lingers now, perhaps decades after their involvement with TWI has ceased. Perhaps if you actually "put yourself in the shoes of" some of the victims, you'd begin to understand and begin to get some of the "proofs" that you seek. If you can't empathise with the hurt coming through in the written stories here from the victims, then perhaps you could get alongside some victims in real life. Get out and help at a homeless centre; work with victims of abuse; work with people with barely enough money to live on and who have severe debt problems; there are many ways to get involved with real people. Talk with people, and find out what has happened in their lives. I warn you, it takes time to work with damaged or vulnerable people and receive sufficient trust so that they will let you in and share the whys and wherefores of their current situation, and it'll be a painful journey for you.

Good, concise, example of something very complex, Rocky (or trivial, Mike). Mike, could you have a go at presenting your "thesis" in such concise terminology? It's only about half a dozen lines. Shouldn't be too difficult for such a knowledgeable Professor of PFAL such as yourself.

There are good reasons to evade, if you fear capture and interrogation. If you are dealing with an enemy. If you believe you are dealing with such here, you have only yourself to blame. No-one sees you as an enemy - a fool, misguided, in your own little world, maybe - but enemy? no. So you see your "thesis" as a campaign, do you? Hmph. A politician on a re-election campaign doesn't make progress by evasion; rather, he annoys the electorate so much that he isn't likely to be re-elected. If you think there is something in your personal life that you'd like to share (with me) you can PM me. Do not require me to PM you. Generally speaking, I will say what I have to say openly. I disclosed some very personal information to you in an effort to show you that it can be done. Your response? Ignored me completely. Others' response? No comment, as it wasn't directed at them. I also showed you some ways my beliefs and doctrines impact my own life (again to encourage you). But you? You appear too unwilling to demonstrate "the application of doctrine to my personal life" - I asked you for ONE THING that had benefited you. And you cannot even demonstrate that. As for your comment, "If you ever conduct a campaign trying to transmit a large body of complex data" can I remind you that as a lawyer I am used to both assimilating a lot of complex data on specialist matters, and asking relevant questions to clarify what I don't understand; Thereafter, I'm extremely capable of presenting that to non-tech person(s). In fact, as a lawyer I considered myself a sort of interpreter for lay clients when it comes to understanding complex legal matters. Clients like my clear and cogent explanations. And they like the way I show them precisely how that applies in their own lives, cases, matters. Now it's your turn to explain why you cannot explain even a simple matter, simply, and show how it works in practice.

My intent with that post was precisely as stated, and as Rocky understands. To bring this thread back to its stated purpose. To reset, a little, this thread. Which once again you have purposely misunderstood, or deliberately taken off topic. Can't you see that the post actually expects the thread to continue for many more pages? Quite the opposite of being locked! Sounds to me like you were looking for a fight. Whatever was said to you then, you probably gave the same sort of evasive answers that you give here. Can't you see that if you offer straight answers to straight questions, you would have far more respect? There are many ways to disagree, but if you duck and dive, you can hardly blame others for hunting you out to try to find out what you really think. I have asked you many straight questions to try to help you. But getting a straight answer is like trying to catch smoke.

Mike, I hate to tell you this when you are clearly so "right," but Jesus isn't described as being "the second Adam" but "the last Adam." There's actually quite a difference in meaning and intent. If you happen to have a Bible, you can read about it in 1 Cor 15:45. No idea (and don't care) how it might be described in PFAL.

Well, this thread has wandered off point somewhat. This was the point: I'm seeing lots of defensiveness from Mike, but nothing about empathy or understanding about the hurt caused by TWI. And nothing of any personal growth by Mike. Knock it off, folks. Let Mike slink back into the woodwork, as he (says he) wishes to do. He might then find time to ponder just a little on what he's too busy defending himself against. But I'm guessing that this thread will meander on for another dozen pages, with Mike continuing to offer provocative comments and not empathetic ones.

It really was "giving to get" - not giving out of a thankful heart because of the bounty of God's provision for each one of us - giving just for the pleasure of giving and helping others. Right now, I would very much like to give - to get! Give away half the contents of my home, so that I can get some space!! Where has all this stuff come from? There really is no room enough to receive all that's in the house. Charity shop, here I come. (Wine collection excluded.)

Oh, but Rocky, surely you understand that the general membership (aka peons) give (physically) in this world, and the same receive spiritually. Only "spiritually." All that ABS goes to helping people in need. You know, like the trustees and higher-ups who have devoted their lives to service of said peons, those who've given up jobs that they could have held at Fortune 500 companies, and such like.

This wouldn't be your open (or closed, by your own admission) mind, would it?

In jest, this post, I trust. You think there is no "caste" in the USA? Every country has its elites, its upper crust, its great and not-necessarily-so-good. And then there are the corporations - that are so big and powerful that they can thwart legitimate governments. Now that's high caste!