Twinky

Thank you, Chockfull.

It's a pretty safe adventure, at least in my city, which is a fairly peaceful, wealthy, touristy, town-and-gown city and beloved by hen and stag parties. Other cities have different circumstances to cope with. We go out as a team of min 3 Street Pastors, and preferably 4 - a threesome stay together, a foursome is two pairs on opposite sides of the street. The city centre is heavily watched by CCTV and we have radios that communicate with CCTV, with all the bar security staff, with a roving band of security staff ("the heavies") who drive around with a paramedic in an ambulance, and with the police (who also have their own radios). If we think something is starting to kick off, we can ask for cameras to be put on the scene, or we can ask the heavies to come by (they arrive within minutes). We don't get involved with fights, but our very presence (and our prayers for peace) are often enough to defuse a situation. Which is not to say there aren't incidents, but they are few and far between. We have had no assaults upon us in the ten years we've been going - verbal abuse hurled at us occasionally, but rarely - mostly we get people running up to us and throwing their arms around us and exclaiming, "We're so glad you're here to take care of us!" I got involved in this from the beginning, in this city. I had been thinking how much better life was now, how healed I had become by the tenderness and kindness I'd received in my church. I wanted to contribute something into the life of this city. There was a notice up in church about a new street patrol that was proposed at weekends, and inviting interested people to a meeting. I instantly felt "smote in the heart" and knew this was something I should be doing. So I went to the initial meeting, and three months later those who'd remained interested were all trained and we hit the streets. Many of the initial intake are still part of the group. There were initial reservations from door staff and the community, who thought we were police in disguise. But now we are widely recognised for our help and non-judgmental approach. So many different doors open to us, to serve and to preach the gospel - "occasionally with words." I can only say, this would never, never, never have happened with any Wayfer project. It's a universe apart. Yep. Who needs a cultie mindset? Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cats, of course, think that 4am is playtime, not bedtime. So, having spent till 3.15am Street Pastoring, I now find myself Cat Pastoring.

So. I just got in from 5 hours strolling the streets of this city. Many people came up to us and told us they loved us, loved what we do. Of course, we accept their thanks, but say we do it because we love God and want them to share in that love. Tonight also several people came up to us specifically to ask us to pray, including: one young soldier who is about to be posted to a recent war zone; another young man outside a gay pub [his eyeliner was much better than I ever managed, LOL!], who says he's a Christian and goes to church in another city, now a student in my city, and he seeks a church that will be supportive of him (able to refer him to somewhere convenient for his student accom); and another young man with some spiritual issues (able to help there too). We also talked with huddles of the "regulars" who are homeless, gave them coffee or tea and muesli bars; one of them that we usually pray with (and he sings us a hymn, to thank us) was asleep, so we didn't get to pray with him. The door security staff are always pleased to see us, greeting us with handshakes and hugs. We assisted (by request) at the railway station - the railway police now like us to be there when a particular train goes out, as the partying passengers can become very rowdy. We collected only 48 entire bottles (usually more like 80+) and swept up 3 broken bottles (usually more like 8). It was a quiet night in town, so we didn't get to help sober up any legless drunks, clean up their vomit on their clothes and the dirt on their faces, or persuade taxis to take them home. Yep. Quite a long way from being in an "evangelical cult." And an even greater distance from parsing Greek verbs. Thanks to those of you who prayed for a safe night for the team.

A bit off topic now, given the (predictable) way this thread has gone, but I'm out tonight, beating the feet on the streets from about 9.30pm to about 3.30am. You folks here will easily be awake in those hours, given the time differences. So, if you think of it, please pray for -- the safety of our team and city (and the other teams out within the UK); the wisdom for us to deal with whatever we encounter; and for our tongues to speak words of peace and blessing to those we encounter. We as a team know we'll have a good time in each others' company.

Thank you, T-Bone! (blushes)

Started in London in response to fears of locals in Brixton about knife crime. Has since widely expanded, both in remit and location. There are around 300 groups in Britain, some in Trinidad, some in Australia - in fact, in 7 countries including 3 teams in the USA (Chico, California; Bangor and Portland, Maine). In my city, we get heaps of people rushing up to hug us and to thank us for looking out for them. Homeless people know we don't judge, but offer kind words, a hot drink, and blankets etc in cold weather. Sometimes, homeless people tell us about someone (not usually a homeless person) whom they've noticed huddled in a doorway or alley, that they are concerned about. Parents are thankful we get their very drunk kids home safely. Security staff throw drunks out but then call us to ensure the drunks are warm and safe. Our universities have gained a good reputation as being in a safe city. The homosexual community welcomes us and some of them love to talk - they often have had horrendous times in churches. And EVERYONE knows we are volunteers - and volunteer CHRISTIANS. Our actions are a much better way of witnessing than door knocking!!!

Congratulations, Taxidev!

I read somewhere here, from Penworks I think, that for those who've been in a cult, it takes about twice the time you were in to recover properly from the damage. So if you were in for 10 years, you'd be recovering for 20. I don't know at what point one can say that recovery is "complete"; maybe sooner for others, maybe perhaps never for a few . A lot will depend on why one is no longer with the cult, and also what counter-information is available. For ex-Wayfers, if people have found GSC, or some other anti-Way site, then once they can accept what they read, their recovery will speed up. But first, they have to get to the point of accepting what they read. If they try to ease out of their cult-thinking by joining other like "splinter" groups, it may be a slower process. (Worse yet if they want to start their own group, as so many ex-Wayfers do.) But an ease-exit by joining a splinter may help; it helped me a little, and because I felt free to challenge (having become immersed in GSC), it became very helpful to see Way thinking for what it is. The R&R bunch can recover - if they want to. Their minds aren't seared with a hot iron, more like buried under a vast quantity of concrete.

TWI, and all cults, intentionally confuse likemindedness with lockstep thinking. There can (and should be) disagreements but these should be done with gracefulness and respect. Especially between Christians, who are all children of God, children of the same father. Siblings quarrel, but shouldn't fall out to the point of violence. I am a (volunteer) Street Pastor. One of the requirements is that Christians from at least four different churches come together to serve the needs of their city. The idea behind this is to build Christian unity of heart. As we patrol, we talk with each other, sometimes about tenets of faith, but frequently about how we've seen God at work in our lives. Theological discussions don't have a place; we see God at work in each other - whether Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, RC, or some independent housegroup. SPs talk about God's love, his grace, and his powerful outworking. And when we talk to vulnerable people on the street (whether they are homeless, or drunk, or drugged, or rowdy, or celebrating, or homosexuals, or just plain lost), we speak with one voice: we tell them that God loves them, cares for them, that we are the church and we've come to help them, talk with them, and see that they are safe. We preach by actions. It's got the attention of the whole country. http://www.streetpastors.org/

Goodness me! $100? Pity I tossed mine into the woodburner years ago.

Thanks. No loss to this place.

Welcome, draw up a seat and be ready for a long yarn. Mike, who posts here regularly, also says TWI saved his life by rescuing him from a life not unlike yours. I'm sure many others can say that too. Your story is delightful. You were honorable with your WoW sister and didn't fall in or allow her to fall in with pregnancy/abortion "rules." I'm so pleased your kids have grown up to be great Christians. With your Masters degree, I'm sure you'll be able to add much to our discussions here, especially in Doctrinal.

Thanks for those links, JayDee. A lot are self-referencing; the best link appears to be the last one, isitinthebible. Hard, with commentaries, to sort out historical and cultural "fact" from private interpretation of commentators through centuries, which has- become accepted as tradition - or worse, as truth. Some state that the angels "evidently" folded the cloths; others state that Jesus did this (presumably equally "evidently") I think I'll keep this in the "don't know" box for the time being, though I like T-Bone's summary as a working hypothesis - to get attention! "someone ALIVE had to have done that” - not only "done" it, but had time to do it in leisurely manner. (If the "someone" were Roman guards, or temple guards, unlikely they'd have done anything in leisurely manner. Anyway, they'd have stolen the entire body, wraps and all.) Hmm...

I don't know that it would be a Jewish tradition - more like a Roman one. Where, JayDee, have you read "both sides of the discussion"? And, "both" sides? What have you read? Yes, HE'S COMING BACK. But what means "the napkin folded [or rolled] together by itself in a separate place"? Must have been included for a reason. It's a seemingly unimportant detail in a big narrative - where "big details" are often missing. So it must have some special significance.

John 20:7 Some versions say "wrapped together by itself," some "rolled together" etc I heard a very interesting comment made about this verse in church this morning. I’ve never heard anything else taught about it; nor can I see anything in a commentary. This, the young stand-in minister said, denoted a custom at the time. When a master had eaten his fill of a meal, he’d get up, toss his napkin down and walk off. This signified that any leftover food would be available for servants and slaves. If, however, the master just got up, intending to return (perhaps he had to answer a call of nature; perhaps deal with some other household issue or a visitor), he would fold (or roll) up his napkin and leave it. This signified to servants and slaves that he intended to return and finish his meal. The minister’s thought was that the head napkin that had been bound about Jesus’s head being folded neatly signified his imminent return. I wonder if anyone here has ever thought about this or read anything. Most commentaries are written by academicians a very long time ago who may never have travelled far from their home countries and never visited any part of the middle-east. It’s the kind of thing that one might think ought to be considered in “Manners & Customs” or “Light through an Eastern Window,” but there’s nothing. M&C merely suggests it was a “handkerchief used to tie the chin up,” without further commentary.

I remember him and his "spiritual suspicion" thing. Heck, the man was mad! In fact, he spent - oh, two "semesters" of Corps Night "teachings" ranting about homo infiltration. A shocking number of people got dismissed. Impossible to even consider some of them being homosexual. He claimed to have caught two staff men in bed together in a room in Founders Hall -- anyway, they got dismissed. Who knows the real reason they got sent away? They weren't there to argue their case. The man was mad - crazy - but not really at them. He was frustrated at his own wife taking up with Rosie, couldn't do anything about it, so he hit everyone else instead. Without particularly wanting to make a comment about Donna - with a husband like him, who couldn't keep his pants zipped, a serial predator and f-cker of other men's wives - why wouldn't she look elsewhere? (If he'd been my husband, which praise the Lord he wasn;t), I think I might have been tempted to carry out a little surgery... If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. If thy hand offend thee, cut it off. If thy foot offend thee, cut it off. And if parts in the middle offend thee...

Here's one such Trinity thread, started by the late Steve L. It's not, however, what I was thinking of earlier, which caused him to post the paper he'd written (shown above).

Okay, Krys, let's see if this works: Yep, looks good. There will be a thread somewhere here where Steve discussed this topic, and that's why he posted this paper. Lortz trinity paper.pdf

You want red drapes? Let us help pull the wool over your eyes!

"Your abundant sharing shearing fleecing at work!"

"All you ever wanted to know about sex" - with practical lessons.

"Name it and claim clone it."

I would also offer a paper prepared by the late Steve Lortz on the trinity. He did this for his (genuine) doctorate. It made more sense to me than anything else I'd read on the subject. However at the moment I seem to be limited in the amount I can upload. An email to the mods, perhaps, for assistance?

Some of you might find this page of interest. I know nothing of the author(s) but there appears to have been some serious work put into the website: http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity.html