Twinky

Candles, what candles? I never heard anything about candles of any color. And I missed the bit where Jesus says, "Light a candle in remembrance of me."

Be not too quick to see everything through "western" eyes. Other cultural arrangements work differently. However, I do think parents should "pat themselves on the back" if they have managed to raise a child or children who are confident in their world and environment, children who have grown into adults who are considerate for other people and living creatures; who can contribute well to society; can reach a thought-through opinion, and voice that opinion without fear of damaging criticism; who can hold their own without feeling "put down" or taking it personally; and who can take responsibility for their own actions and their consequences. Prov 10:1 A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish son grief to his mother. Prov 15:30 A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish man despises his mother. Prov 23:24 The father of a righteous man will greatly rejoice, and he who fathers a wise son will delight in him. Prov 31:17 (of a good mother) Her sons rise up and call her blessed. Her husband also praises her: Many women are capable, but you surpass them all!  And many more proverbs besides. If parents can do that, they have succeeded in their parenting. And then it's befitting to consider what opinions their children have, and why they have those opinions; why they take the actions they do, etc. If parents have integrity and have raised their children with integrity, why should that be a problem? Those children can "bring joy" to parents as they grow in life. Parents generally hope their children will "do better" than they themselves did, so why should it be a threat when the children actually do do better? However, if parents have lost their integrity... ah well.

Thanks, DWBH and Skyrider. You remind me. It's not chocolate cake, but a delicious light fruit cake that I suspect has some interesting additions/fruit soaking liquid. Anyway, it's delicious and I think I will treat myself to a piece right now.

Leah - welcome (again). You are brave to announce yourself here. Nobody holds anything against you or your siblings; you've all always been strictly off limits. In some respects you are "nobody special" here - we all escaped with greater or lesser damage. In other respects, you are "very special," because you really have been in the heart of the madness, and thus probably have much more to overcome. I hope there are some good times that you can recall with your Mom and Dad - though I don't doubt that there were hard times too. I recall your dad used to love to display your flute-playing ability at concerts and events. Do you and your children see either of your parents? Penworks can help you a lot, and can point you to a lot of material that might be balm to your soul (and your husband's). The book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" was like lifting the lid of TWI for me - I was in residence early 90s right after the "fog years," when things were tightening up - and I think things got worse after that. I thought the authors might have been TWI-escapees, but there isn't any connection at all. Learn to like yourself. To love yourself. Welcome to becoming YOU!

Thanks, Raf. Had a really great day.

Thanks, Waysider. What I'd like to do. Hmm. After some pondering, I think I'll say: Stay alive, and be thankful. Certainly got no plans to "retire" or stop working just yet.

No, I turned 65 yesterday.

No-one wonders about my post?

He's getting a grandchild. He's getting married. Or divorced. He's announcing that he's standing for President. He's just trying to drive everyone nuts, thinking what his big secret is.

Actually, we really welcome people reading old posts. Sometimes it's what helps them make sense of what they saw, or what happened to them, during their time with TWI. And sometimes people can add an update on old material, if they've left more recently. If you are a recent leaver, Dukie, you are welcome to post what you know; you are welcome to add to current threads. You can have any viewpoint you like (some here are adamant Wierwille haters, others have been adamant Wierwille proponents). Just understand that what you post may be subject to challenge and debate, and if you post nonsense or abusive posts, you will be called on such posts.

What does that mean. Dukie? LCM was insane, and caused so much pain and hurt? Because that's the reality. I suffered much because of this man and his perverted teachings. It has stolen many years of my life. It was painful. It isn't now. You will probably find most of the posters on this thread think similarly. We post here of our experiences, not because we hang onto the past in an unhealthy way, but because it seems that many still don't know or understand. It sounds rather like you are one of those people.

Gimme the sermon I heard in church last Sunday, any time. I really think that many of these people at R&R started out with a desire to love God, but got sidetracked along the way, fell into the ego tramp, and now they're climbing the greasy pedestal. Mary likes to hang about and talk to people, especially newbies. Is that because it gives her the opportunity to show off her supposed knowledge? It'd be nice if one or some of them spoke about the six months or year or more that they had spent volunteering daily (or at least weekly) at a shelter for homeless people, or for battered wives, or helping drug addicts, prostitutes, child laborers, and such like. You know, the ones with no money and a hard attitude to life. The ones who call "do-gooder" hypocrisy for what it is. Some place these teachers get their hands dirty in the sh-t of life. Fab opportunities to see people really turn their lives around; it's a very slow process.

Why does it matter? We're grown up people; mostly, we can all count backwards. Unless it's Ham, and he goes all squirrelly. I will post something on Saturday. Leave you to guess what it is and why when you see it (won't be difficult).

Can I offer:

Oh, well, yes, but we are talking of different things. I'm saying, selection wasn't elite. You are saying, after graduation one became part of an elite. Both are true. And of course, there was the "elite elite" - the ones who had contacts/money/other stuff that They were interested in. The ones who were treated with kid gloves and never seemed to get into trouble. And these people were apparent, even in the in-rez training. Nicer jobs. Not in trouble. Were twig leaders. And often didn't have much empathy for everyone else there.

Elite Corps program? Nothing elite about it. You got the money together, you did a few precursor classes (unexamined, no grades) and as long as you weren't a complete jerk, you got in. My Corps went out one year and no team of all of us got a class together. We came back to a major inquisition about what went wrong and where we had spiritually missed it, and threats to kick us all out. Then a month or so later we were sent out again with strict instructions to get a class together. That might have had an "or else" attached; can't remember, too long ago. Anyway, we all achieved a class. I find myself wondering what happened to those who did take Lightbearers classes. We were all in towns where there were believers (we stayed with them!) but as to how many continued after the class... and whether they stuck around for a few months afterwards... or even years afterwards... Lightbearers was quite fun, though. A relief from the goldfish bowl existence of living at HQ where you could get reamed for the slightest infraction.

Grace, a real Christmas tree with real lights isn't ... exactly... a song ...that encapsulates Christmas. Anyway, the party hos put together a tape where all of us had chosen about three pieces of music (so choices from someone nearly 90, to someone who was only 4) - it was fun and it was interesting trying to guess who had chosen what.

What happened to

Very good for you, Volchic. It was far more important for you to spend time with your dad, than with your "fellowship" coordinator. I'm sure that helped you through the next 14 years of control freakishness.

The banned books section! Love it .

Some people clearly have too much time on their hands. I translated my Corps notes, not transcribed. Translated them straight into the woodburner.

One thing I saw in this that I haven't heard before - "gambling in Las Vegas" - and big betting implied. What's that all about?

Welcome, Chris. Hope you'll stick around.# There's a thread here under Connecting, specifically for finding friends. It's called Friend Tracker. You might want to post on that too. The name Heather Christian sounds slightly familiar. What Corps was she in? I might be thinking of a different Heather, though.

Hi Janet, and welcome to the Cafe. Thanks for your sponsorship to others unknown. God will respect your heart in providing for the needs of others. And if those people respect God (rather than TWI) he'll bless and teach them.