Calflor

This was one of the many travesties of many of the very talented and educated followers of the day. I got involved with TWI while in college. I saw many way followers never realize the fruits of their hard work getting an education never really use their degree, at least not until leaving. I could never really understand why the "brass" would not want these people to aspire to professional success. This would have put much more "ABS" into the way coffers as well as given the ministry more legitimacy within the community.

Thank God I did not have children until my departure from the way in 1985. My impression was that many of the children of "waybots" were embarrassed by their parents schizophrenic communal lifestyle. There was no sanctuary for these children to be raised in an environment where parents could raise their own children without interference from some overzealous self appointed higher authority on child rearing. I recall seeing the higher ups kids getting away with bloody murder, while the lower rung kids suffering the wrath of the same way despots who thought their kids did no wrong. It is not surprising that many of these kids "ran for the door" as soon as they were old enough to do so. Justice for those serving up this type of abuse would be to get the wooden spoon for all eternity.

To me the whole point is consideration of neighbors (remember: Love your neighbor (doesn't say anything about the neighbor being a believer or unbeliever) as yourself) not religious persecution. Most likely someone in the neighborhood complained to local authorities. Their reasons...who knows? Could be legitimate or just a dislike for this particular neighbor. I know that when someone in my neighborhood has a Tupperware party or whatever, it can be an inconvenience to folks coming over to my house by making it harder to park close to my house. Even Christians can be inconsiderate and in some cases have an "it's my world" attitude or even worse "I am a chosen one" attitude and I could care less about rank unbelievers (TWI self rightiousness). I recall one incident when we were having a twig leaders meeting (in the 70's) in a house on a lake in Northern Indiana. The head honcho (forget the title now) had us up at 6 AM for a meeting and we were singing way songs waking up the folks next door. So the neighbor comes over and asks us to pipe it down since we waking up the whole neighborhood. The head honcho proceeded to get into a screaming match with the neighbor (since we were the chosen ones and have every right to do this). Anyway the guy calls the police and complains...the police come over and issue the head honcho with a disturbing the peace citation. You would have thought that we were the first century church being persecuted by the Roman authorities. I know I like to sleep in a little bit on a Sunday morning and actually even at the time (dispite being brainwashed) thought the head honcho was out of order. As a matter of fact he was such a jerk (total loss of self control), I was surprised the neighbor who displayed much greater amounts of self control didn't punch his lights out. Imagine that a rank unbeliever demonstrating greater self control (one of the fruits of the spirit) than the Mog of Northern Indiana...go figure!

I personally was never subjected to this other than an incident my wife reported to me about a leader taking the practice of "greeting fellow believers with a holy kiss" being taken to the extreme. However, I was always a wierded out by the kissing of believers and back rub thing...I thought perhaps it came out of the hippy influence on the way. Way too much familiarity and violation of my personal space for my liking. VP really crafted a doctrine for this time, the height of the sexual revolution. At my level in the way (well down the pecking order), I clearly thought it was taboo. If this theology would have been brought down to the level I was at, some of these clowns may have got the crap beat out of them or worse. I would most defintely would agree that CF&S was bizarre to say the least. Even subjecting people to pornography who may have been seeking deliverance in their lives of this obsession, could well have sent the wrong message that it is somehow OK. I suppose I was amongst the naive who really had no idea, however after hearing the first hand accounts from those who were abused, I definitely believe them to be true.

Johnny was just another dweeb who was empowered by the way IMO.

I cannot figure out why Mike continues to debate the accolades of PFAL with posters on this thread. This is a pretty tough crowd for him to proclaim the greatness of PFAL and VPW to. We have all had first hand experience and most have made the choice to no longer follow or seek the guidance of PFAL and the way in our lives. Mike is free to believe what he will, however if he wants to win converts to his 100% pure and accurate knowledge of the truth, it seems to me he would have more success with people who have not been tainted by their way experience. Perhaps God spoke audibly to him and told him to deliver this message to all former wayfers and give them one more chance to return to the undefiled truth of PFAL. Did it snow in San Diego? I live two hours away and haven’t heard about it.

Even in it's hey day the way had about the same significance in the "big picture" as a moblile taco stand has on the entire food industry in LA. Just like that mobile taco stand's inability to offer every person in Los Angeles the opportunity to eat one of their tacos an insignificant number of the earth's population has ever even heard of this organization...and thanks to the idiots in charge, never will.

My wife's brother lives in Ishpeming. He is a former Californian and loves it up there...he teaches at UNM. His little town really gets pounded in the winter with the white stuff, but I have never seen a place with so many bars...$20 out can get you in and out of most of the bars...the people are super friendly, especially at the end of the night after all the beer...and the best part is you go home with money in your pocket...it's great!

Yeah, this one always got my goat...I guess it was good for them that a few of us actually had personal possessions for them to use. I work hard for what I have and am not selfish with things I own, however the choice is up to me if I choose to share it with someone. The higher ups would walk in and act as if all we owned was theirs...frankly it pi$$ed me off and I felt disrespected by these leeches. This was high on the list of reasons I disassociated myself from the morally bankrupt organization. It was more like what is yours is mine, however what was theirs was not ours. Ordinary Joe believer was abused by leadership in this way for the most part. It must be tough on many of these former parasites that now have to climb on the treadmill of life like the rest of us. BTW, I was never impressed by Mr. Allen...when he was up in front of us spewing his so called "homespun wisdom", what came to mind was "What am I doing listening to this idiot?"...and that leads me to this hypocritical quote from the cornfield preacher... The greatest leader is the greatest servent...in practice we were expected us to serve them.

Agree that some are pompous, arrogant, egomaniacal, self righteous know it alls while others are humble, non-judgemental, self deferential and are not afraid to admit that they don't have all the answers...my preference is for the second kind...nowadays I run from the first kind the second my radar detector picks up on them...and God knows most on here have had plenty of experience with that.

With just three members (BOD), perhaps they should just go ahead and run off the few remaining lunatic fringe adherents they have left, then really live large...what do you think Rosie? Trips to the spa, plastic surgery, or imagine this...flagellating on silk sheets instead of those 300 count Egyptian cotton ones you have now?

We used to call them (customers unruly kids) House Apes.

Having spent most of my life in Indiana (lived in Carmel from 86-02) the church that is being referred to is 2nd Pres as it is known by in Indy. It is cetainly not known for being a place where it's members are caught up in outwardly emotional worship. However, that does not discredit them as committed Christians. It's former head minister is the former mayor of Indianapolis Bill Hudnut (given much of the credit for making Indy a bright spot of economic prosperity in the midwest today). The church is the place to go to for the WASP elite of business and politics on the north side of Indianapolis. I too know people who are members and have much respect for their quiet and respectful Christian style. They are honest, hardworking and godly people IMHO. JAL's family were highly respected in the community and members in good standing in 2nd Pres. They may have lost some friends and respect from local community friends and neighbors after they became actively involved in TWI...but from my perspective were still great upstanding members of the community that they were such an integral part of. I certainly have nothing but the highest respect for the Lynn's. They were a strong family that supported their children equally whether they were in or out of TWI. I knew their other son Charlie (who sadly passed away recently) stayed active in 2nd Pres and they loved and supported him just as much as JAL. I haven't spoke to JAL in a few years, but I always found him engaging and never felt suppressed by him when I disagreed with him (which I never hesitated to do). I always looked at him as no different than other friend or acquantance whom I may have liked but certainly do not agree on everything that comes out of their mouth. We have all sinned and are in need of God's grace and mercy...he is no different in my mind. Although there may be a few points he raises in his most recent letter I agree with (can't think of what they are and I am not going to take the time to reread it), overall it is of little importance in the overall picture. I think most people who come to the cafe don't give it a great deal of credence.

he even won in Florida...that should be good for tourism with all the dems feeling it is now safe to go back in the water down there...even though Jeb may be lurking somewhere undercover until maybe 2012.

I have a customer in West Long Branch NJ and was recently there for the first time...they were all bragging about knowing Springsteen back in the High School days...other than that Tavis Smiley from BET...his brother worked for me for awhile...Tavis actually went to high school in a very small Indiana town.

The thing that saddens me about the JAL story is that he was a very talented, intelligent and energetic young man in the 70's (who did have a serious impact on his hometown (Indianapois) during that time) to fall so far from the standards of his upbringing because of his own personal involvement with TWI. This is a man who would have been successful in business, education or entertainment if he would have chosen almost any other organization than TWI to focus his drive and passion. If I were him I would do anything but laud the greatness of a man and an organization that did so much damage to him and his family personally.

I live in Southern California and have attended a CC Church in Redlands California. It is a very laid back church that teaches the Bible in a very straight forward and easily understood way. I very much enjoy the teaching, the music and the very non-judgemental flock of believers. I also have a very close friend who started a Calvary Chapel Church in South Carolina (he is not former TWI). He and I have had many discussions about our individual backgrounds and influences. I have never found him to be harshly critical of my past TWI involvement (over 23 years gone), only offering me help and inspiration in my growth as a brother in Christ. I would agree this is truly a significant Christian movement, particularly here in Southern California. I also wanted to add that I grew up in Indiana and got involved in TWI while John Lynn was in charge. I do not have many bad memories from those days. I even attended some CES meetings after John started that organization in the mid 80's. It did not take me too long realize that CES was no where I wanted to be. Although, I always liked entire Lynn family. John just got suckered into the "gutter behavior" of leadership in the Way, IMHO.

There must surely be a deal between TWI and LCM involving his acceptence into TWI's equivalence of a witness protection program. He is a high risk person to them who could potentially blow up what is left of the TWI Senior Living Center. Perhaps after all the statutes of limitations have expired, he is at no risk of future litigation and at the end of his rope living in total obscurity and disgrace, King Okie will rise from the ashes to haunt Rosie and her minions living in the cornfields of Ohio. At least this would be a nice ending to the horror story.

I moved from the midwest in 2004 to Redlands California then to Pembroke Pines Florida in 2006...moving is very expensive, but being in a small industry with a very specific area of expertise it is part of the territory. The downside is that I feel very little sense of community and sometime wake up in the morning not sure where I am. Having said that, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth...people in the midwest are the friendliest with California a close second and Florida a distant third. Geographically speaking, California and the west is my favorite part of the country. California is paridise lost though...too many people and too much traffic. Both California and Florida have a very Hispanic culture...I prefer Mexican culture to Cuban...just my opinion. California is the most expensive followed closely by Florida...the midwest is cheap! Florida has no income tax with California's income tax at almost 10% If your income is $60,0000 per year that amounts to $500 in your pocket per month. However in Florda the property taxes and insurance rates are extremely high. Having said all of that, I will not stay in Florida any longer than I have to. Besides, the weather ain't that great...too humid! My picks are New Mexico (Las Cruces), Northern Arizona (Flagstaff to Prescott), Southern Utah (St. George-the fastest growing small city in America-lots of jobs) and Nevada (Reno/Lake Tahoe area). I love Montana, Idaho and Oregon, but cannot handle long cold winters. List of the fastest growing metro areas in the US. BTW the Atlanta Metro Area had the largest population growth of any metro area in the US in the last 6 years. http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/re...cb07-51tbl3.xls

dmiller...thats great especially coming from a fellow Hoosier. I ran a nice little twig fellowship in Indiana when in 1984 some corpse nazis showed up in my town after ROA. After putting up with their BS for a few months, I just dialed them up one day and said I'm out (kinda like walking away from a blackjack table after losing too much money). The corpse nazi tried like hell to engage me...I just ignored him and told him to pi$$ off. My entire twig left the same day and he was left with nobody. They stayed there a couple more years with little or no results, I am told. So much for their training in the greatest leadership program of our time.

Perhaps TWI will suffer the same fate as the Shakers...now only known for a style of furniture. RR now only has to adapt their doctrine of celibacy as present truth. From essortment.com/thereligionoftheshakers. After 1860 membership in the sect began to decline. By 1874, their numbers had fallen from the high of 6,000 twenty years earlier to a mere 2,400. By the mid-1890’s, only about 1,000 Shakers were left in the Shaker villages. After 1964, no new members were accepted into the sect, and by the 1980’s, only a few aged sisters remained at the Sabbath Day Lake community in Maine. One obvious reason for the sect’s decline is that unlike other Utopian communities, it was not marriage-based, and thus did not renew its numbers with children born into families. Because Shakers were celibate, their communities could grow only by constantly bringing in new converts, but as the nineteenth century progressed, new converts were harder to come by. The insular, communal Shaker way of life, and its rigorous spiritual discipline--including unquestioning submission to authority, celibacy, and strenuous manual labor--did not appeal as much to an American people so strongly influenced by the individualistic values of the late nineteenth century and by the promise of material comfort and reduced labor not only for the upper class, but for the common man as well. Although Shakerism was one of the nineteenth century’s most successful experiments in religious communal living, it has subsided into a memory of idealistic devotion. Once thriving Shaker villages are now only museums, and the well-built, practical furnishings they were famous for are collectors items and museum pieces.

TWI operates "unconditional love" upon the condition that you adhere to the doctrine and prescribed practice of their religion 100%...then again the entire organization and their practices are logical fallacies...and the continual practice of these logical fallacies incapacitates one's ability to love unconditionally...in addition to reason and rational thought.

Are they using CES/STFI money to pay their legal bills? How can they do this if Mark was fired as president? Usually this can only be done if he were still in financial control of the organization and the board went along with it.

What is Reality? Perhaps I should take momentus and find out...on second thought in the words of Forrest Gump "I am not a smart man, but I do know what love is". On that subject Forrest was much more enlightened than anything I found in TWI.

In the 70's (the nexus of this movement) we were in college living in a altered states due to drug use. The next phase for many of us in this altered state was to gravitate to drinking TWI's Kool Aid. Marketing is selling perception regardless of validity. In our altered hippy state we could not tell if it was real or memorex. The way I look at it is that it was just another phase of our generation. Thank goodness that phase is over.