oldiesman

now I see, I think this thread started off in the mud. This thread isn't about a memorial to Sandra, it's about condemnation of VP as a murderous monster. It was all but suggested in the first few posts. If we want to do a proper memorial for Sandra Ann Sullivan it should be posted in the "in memoriam" section of the forums where folks may share their feelings about Sandra and give respects and admiration for Sandra's life and the hope to see her smiling face again at the return of Christ, without malice toward anyone else.

From what I read about the incident these folks had no responsibility whatever. I am totally unsupportive and unsympathetic of VP's actions accusing way corps folks of the death of Gary Dunhoff. Never thought, wrote or suggested it was ok.

Paw, I went back and re-read my posts regarding sky and they have been respectful. I even thanked her after her last post. My opinions are disagreeable on certain elements, but respectful. No diminishment of others. I've posted much worse in the past, you know that. Anyway, have a great weekend, one and all.

Humiliating someone like this in public especially from the owner of a website does little but encourage anger and retribution, not repentance. Taking it private is the respectable and right thing to do, which is why its suggested in the forum rules.

Perhaps posts like this would best be PM'd to someone privately rather than humilate a poster in public. (Matthew 18:15)

Now wait a second, I'm not stomping on sky or judging any of her actions in this matter. When did I do that? In contrast, it is some of you folks who are calling her incident vile and lewd. I don't think she did anything wrong or should be ashamed about anything. Posters say Wierwille is vile and lewd. Ok folks are entitled to that opinion but I didn't stomp on sky in any way. I think the judgments and condemnations are coming from others, not me.

I re-read my posts relating to sky's story and don't see where I said it wasn't sexual in nature. Where do you get that from? I didn't say that. I opined it wasn't sexual sin. That's my opinion, you're entitled to yours. Did you read her post? Did you see another incident with Wierwille? Please quit asking me these moronic questions.

There is no evidence of that. She went through the whole Way process from WOW to Corps to Staff, without a similar incident from VP. Doesn't seem she was on his list.

There you go again with the idolatry accusation. Ok, you're entitled to your opinion. However in my opinion saying that over and over about a poster isn't in compliance with the forum rules.

I get your point, but I disagree. Yes the homosexual suggestion is vile to me. I think its sick. Now if a female leader wanted a massage from me, I'd have to consider what my mindset were at the time, but I would say generally it wouldn't be vile and disgusting for me to do that for her. Maybe you think that its vile and lewd to give a massage, and of course you have a right to your opinion. I disagree with your opinion that VP was grooming sky for future sexual contact with her. There is no evidence of that.

That was a nice twisting job of my post. You left out what got me nauseated, the homosexual suggestion. Was that intentional, or you just don't want to address that vile suggestion made by you? Maybe you are used to that kind of stuff, who knows. But never mind, no more questions will be answered by me from you. I have rocks in my head to try to answer in the first place judging from your last few disrespectful posts to me.

Sunesis, your post was nauseating because it had sort of a homosexual suggestion to it. uck. Whether you intended that, I can't say, but that's how it came off to me. Maybe that sort of thing isn't offensive to you, but I don't engage in it. Now let's say a female asked me to rub her buttocks, I'd choose what I want to do, but that shouldn't be a gay issue. Does that answer your question?

sky watcher, thanks for sharing.

Dear Fellow Greasespot Posters, Please abide by the forum rules and refrain from personal attacks. Lack of respect and insults directed at fellow posters will inevitably lead to more and more personal insults. Please note this excerpt from the rules:

Do you drive a vehicle? Under your criteria, going 1 mile over the speed limit would be a sin.

I agree, what's your point?

Because of the preconceived judgment of VP being a sex addict and predator, this incident takes on a juicy life of its own. But had he never committed adultery in his life, this incident has little meaning and caused no harm.

Waysider, I disagree with your opinion. No impropriety occured from what I read of that incident.

He asked her if she was uncomfortable and she said no. Where did he force himself on her? She freely gave the backrub. She was an adult, she could have said "no" and that would have been the end of it.

Really? Chapter and verse please. Do you think Wierwille's action in asking for a backrub and offering drambuie to a 20-year old was sin?

Del said: " I talked to her and counseled with her a little bit, and also went before the Board of Trustees on it to try to get some reckoning about what this girl was going through, and others, but it was to no avail". What specifically was told the BOT, wasn't revealed. It wasn't revealed what went on behind the scenes, what thoughts were going through her mind, what thoughts were going through the BOT's mind, and what action was taken, if any. So speculating that VP and the BOT had knowledge of an impending suicide, is folly.

He asked her to give a back rub, and she freely gave one. He asked her if she was uncomfortable and she said no. Later, he didn't go further. From what I read, nothing was forced. What am I supposed to surmise by that incident, that he sinned for asking for a backrub?

Sorry, blaming Dr. Wierwille & Howard for this terrible act is like accusing them of murder, and its wrong. People should be held responsible for their actions, not someone else's. A person commits suicide, you don't blame people who have no knowledge or control over that act. That's not a blame-the-victim attitude, its just plain logic and fairness. Forget Dr. & Howard for a moment ... try putting yourself in the shoes of someone being accused of causing someone else's suicide ... something that was never intended, known about, or consented to. Is it fair to make that accusation?

shiftthis, thanks for posting. I thank God for freedom of religion in America, where folks are free to choose who they fellowship with. Its great to have you here... please keep on posting , I'd like to hear your viewpoint on things.