oldiesman

It says "put on" the new man. That takes work, effort. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind". I would say that God does the transforming, He works in us as we make the effort. I believe this is true of SIT as well. I think I'm a better person partly because of SIT, it helps.

If what you say is true and the Spirit is making intercession for us whether we SIT or otherwise; then I would say that SIT wouldn't effect that intercession either way. Worse case scenario, SIT if you like, God doesn't hold it against you as far as I know.

I think what happened with TWI is irrelevant to whether SIT is a genuine spiritual manifestation. I suppose one could argue that SIT is counterfeit, because the first century church was ruined as well. SIT was around before twi and SIT may very well outlast twi. I wouldn't know that those who sinned greatly "spoke in tongues more than ye all" in their private prayer life. Maybe they did or didn't? I don't know.Even so, still doesn't make the manifestation part of all that sinning. There are folks who didn't do those dirty deeds, SIT'd and can attest to SIT benefits. SIT doesn't make anyone not sin if they choose to sin. I partially agree with you on this. TWI taught that the renewed mind would transform the believer, not just SIT. That takes work and effort, not only SIT but changing thoughts too. Continual SIT in love can be a loving thing too... praying in tongues for someone is that along with edifying oneself in the spirit. I think everything is attitude. If you proceed with the right attitude in wanting to do God's best, SIT CAN AID YOU in all these things you mentioned.

Poor reasoning for me. Makes no sense to throw away what would be useful, because of someone's elses sins. Additionally, twi didn't invent SIT and there's plenty of folks who do it who never were influenced by twi.

What about verses 4-5? 1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Cannot be uttered in a known language to the speaker. It doesn't say that exactly, I know, but it was surmised that this was what it meant. If we don't know what we should pray for as we ought in our own language, the other conclusion is SIT, laloeing something which cannot be laloed in your known language. SIT still is the best explanation I've heard for this verse. Otherwise , if this verse is not talking about speaking in tongues, what exactly is it talking about? Can one explain in detail what these groanings are? I'm not saying you're wrong, you could be correct. But instead of this verse being used to disprove SIT, I'd be more interested and appreciative of what this verse precisely is talking about, if not SIT.

From what I've heard of the teachings against SIT today, they say don't do it ... it is devil possession, speaking gibberish, glossalalia, died with the apostles, and so forth. Teachings in favor of SIT are along the lines of what twi teaches. Not really a whole lot more to add here. One either believes it and manifests, sees and enjoys the profit of it; or one disbelieves it, doesn't do it, doesn't receive anything from it. At this point, I don't see any compelling reason why I need to stop SIT entirely.

Not too far different from what I experienced in twi. I'd also add one other thing from twi: "let go and let God"

During my stint in twi, I don't recall twi ever robbing me of having someone as a friend who I chose to have.

twi's perspective/teaching is the best I've seen so far about why SIT is useful for the believer.

You knew it all along didn't you? :) It was my mom's favorite movie and very close to being mine. I think I'll watch it once more.

Teaching that sit is the proof that one is saved, is entirely different than teaching that sit is a requirement for salvation or implying that one isn't saved if one doesn't speak in tongues. Twi never taught that SIT is or was, a requirement for salvation. This is not a debatable issue. You are wrong. Period. If you won't admit your b.s. then there's nothing more to say other than you have zero credibility. Thanks Sudo.

Anyone who was around twi for any length of time (and is of sound mind) can't get twi's teaching on salvation wrong. You may disagree, but can't err on knowing what is something so simple. Either that or, when one's mind gets so corrupted against twi, all matter of fantastic bullhockey enters in the trap door. Ya can't get this one wrong and you're not fooling anyone. Aren't there enough issues to condemn twi with without adding b.s.?

Good guess, but no.

The wikipedia biography skips over some details, yes, but at least it is accurate with what is there. In contrast, the religious tolerance.org site dmiller referenced is inaccurate on at least one point, not a small one, that of twi's teaching on salvation. Here's their quote: TWI implied nothing of the kind; they never taught that salvation is contingent upon speaking in tongues. In their condemnation of twi, they are fudging and bullspitting. This is not historical accuracy.

"Never leave me out of your sight -- never again."

Victor Paul Wierwille Not bad. Short and sweet.

George what you need to do is RENT THIS FILM! :) Here is a song from the film: O Perfect Love

I have a friend who races at Loudon and I go up there to watch the races. Next time I go will probably be weekend of July 29-30. I tend to stay away from rallies because they're so crowded, but I like Americade at Lake George. There, if you plan accordingly, you can test ride various brands of bikes as well as attend the Tour Expo. On Thursday June 9, it was raining for most of the day but I was able to test ride the Moto Guzzi Breva and Kawasaki Ninja 650R. Day before, I test rode the Kawasaki ZX-14 (perhaps the fastest consumer production bike right now) and the Victory Touring Cruiser. Nice bikes. New Hampshire is such a beautiful state. We went up there a couple of months ago and tried to get into Smuggler's Notch but it was closed due to ice and snow still up there.

I am going away for the weekend so have fun.

If you don't cry at the end of this film, your heart is made of cold stone. Gawd you folks need to rent this one. :)

Adam masturbating while watching two women getting it on seems to fit pretty well, or am I being too carnally minded ?? :)

I believe anyone who saw this film would get it right away. Clue: made in 1942.

"Smithy"

On Golden Pond