oldiesman

If Dr. Wierwille did "admire" Hitler, it was probably due to Hitler's fight against world communism and the Soviets, more than anything else; not the way Hitler treated Jews per se (although it has been said that Wierwille agreed with Hitler's plan for the emigration of Jews from Germany). But I can see VP saying we were on the wrong side in WWII, because with respect to communism, WE WERE. Some also may recall that Wierwille was an admirer of our World War II vets; he spoke highly and respectfully of them, my father included. So if Wierwille were truly this glassy eyed lover of Hitler and fascism, as some posters love to portray him, it doesn't make sense he would admire and speak well of those who fought against Hitler and fascism. Regarding the Mermelstein affair, I googled and received this response from the IHR website:Best Witness-Mermelstein My response to this would be, two wrongs don't make a right...

There is no evidence that Dr. Wierwille supported the killing of the Jews. Maybe because Hitler built the autobahns, and his mother was Jewish? :)

How can he wholeheartedly support it? He didn't even believe it existed, let alone know anything about it when it was happening. It is extremely unfair to equate lack of believing in the holocaust, with supporting it...

What the Hey, did you happen to check out the "U.S. Financial Aid to Israel" link that I provided? Pretty staggering isn't it?

Yes we should work toward not being dependent on their oil, as well. But I didn't infer that my "solution" was the perfect answer... I infer that it is much safer, and much more cost efficient, for the U.S. to quit supporting Zionism which exposes the U.S. (if not the direct cause, a BIG cause) to being entangled with decades of war with the middle east, costing thousands of lives and billions of money. Would the terrorists cease their attacks against U.S. if the U.S. showed a good faith effort to cease support of their enemies? I don't know, nobody knows for sure.. but it puts the U.S. in a safer position than what exists today. ha ha ha... sorry for the typo...

Encouraging is one thing, being mired down with decades of war with the middle east, costing many lives and much $billions, is another...

It really wouldn't be the U.S.'s job to "convince"; it would be honorable for U.S. to make this program available because of the continued support of the people of that region of the world, bearing in mind our desire to cease espousing Zionist causes. What is the current population of Israel? 6 billion? We could absorb that many, with a multi-year program. In the long run, it would save much money and so many lives, it's a no-brainer. We need a President who has enough courage to buck the trend of the last few decades, which might be the most unlikely of all tasks.

Tom, no matter how much aid we give the Italians (which I am not necessarily in favor of either, depends on the reasons), it PALES in comparison to Israel.Check this out: U.S. Financial Aid to Israel: Figures, Facts, Impact

Tom, what we are discussing here are actually two issues... (1) the details/facts about the holocaust itself and (2) regardless of the facts, whether or not these facts are currently being used as propaganda for continued Zionist causes... I believe it can be argued that #2 is relevant to this thread, because it was this "propaganda" issue that was a reason, I believe, why Dr. Wierwille included these books in the twi bookstore. There is evidence that he believed this information was being used as propaganda for continued financial Jewish/Zionist interests and therefore I believe it becomes one of the reasons why we were exposed to all of this, to begin with. You seem to be the only one clamoring that this is off topic, yet others seem to find this debate useful, so why not leave the aforementioned arguments in this thread too? Don't you think this stuff is interesting? I do. Here's some of what Wierwille wrote: Excerpted from... By The Way Victor Paul Wierwille Sept. 26, 1980 St. Marys Evening Leader

googled average age for a great dane -- 8 years. sounds like this blessed dog is ready for doggie heaven.

I already presented my solution in a previous post: allocate the current $3-4 billions we send over there using it instead for repatration of Jews and others to come here and be Americans. Get U.S. out of this perpetual support of Zionism, which not only deeply antagonizes the Arab/Muslim world causing all matter of endless wars and killings against us, and makes us look partial and subservient to this cause. As opposed to instead acting in the best interests of another country, over ours?Abso-f-in-lutely! We put our trust and monies in the hands of our elected officials, and we expect them to deliver for us, the people of the U.S. Anything else would be treason. I am an Italian by ethnic background. But, when compared to U.S. interests, I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about "Italian interests of Italy". I am an American first. But that's also why I wouldn't stop folks of all ethnic backgrounds from coming here and enjoying what I do... We wouldn't be walking away, we'd be changing policy to get out of their affairs and helping folks in the process; and terrorists would welcome that action and the terrorism against us would cease (why do you think we are targets now?), and it would make us safer. We are playing in THEIR backyard, we should get out... I don't know, but at least we should try to eliminate the problems we do have, when we see them.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What has been profitable about U.S. decades-long support for Israel? Really. Or perhaps a better question maybe would be ... are there any policies we may apply right now that would be more profitable to the U.S., than our current policy? I see U.S. support for Israel and Zionism as a net loss for our country, especially when you factor in the possible Iraq-war connection, started in 1991 and continuing to this day, with no end in sight. To me this is a HUGE issue. Next up: IRAN...

Thanks for that thread, I'll study it. There's no question the Presidents and other Christian Zionists favored it. What I question, is how much pressure they exerted... or whether it was U.S. pressure/force who carried it out or bought it to pass. I think not. In hindsight, perhaps U.S. should have opposed it for reasons we are discussing now.

I wouldn't call what we didn't do "hate". What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive. Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.

I haven't thought about that much because I'm not one of those so-called "Christian Zionists". But my answer to that would be, the return of Christ isn't determined by what nations on earth do.

Well, here's my solution: if we (U.S.) earmarked that $3-4 billion of loot we routinely send to Israel every year, using it instead for Jewish folks who wanted to to emigrate to the U.S.... think of how well that would be accepted around the world, especially the Arab/middle eastern world. We would finally put an end to years and years of criticism that we devils are supportive of Zionism, and instead live in relative peace with the muslim world. Would save a ton of lives too. Win-win situation.

As we see from the last two paragraphs, if the U.S. did exert some pressure, i.e Truman, it didn't do much good. Instead it appears it was the Jewish underground terrorist forces who carried out several attacks against the British, that caused them to change direction.

Abigail, I am unaware of any huge U.S. pressure put on Britain to create the state of Israel. Please feel free to post facts that support your conclusion. Excerpted from Wikipedia about "British Mandate of Palestine":

No "specific" point by bringing up Dresden, just thought about it when I saw that view of Manhattan and thought about the atrocities of war. We seem to be commenting on two issues on this thread... one, the holocaust of Jews and whether it was planned and real, systemitized, etc. Second, does the continuous reminder of the Jewish holocaust have a political agenda, i.e., eventual goal of keeping the U.S. in full support of Israel and Zionist causes? I take another look at that Manhattan skyline, and wonder if Manhattan will ever really be exposed to a nuclear weapon, wiping all of it out, because of continued U.S. support/promise to protect the safety of Israel. It's scary.

I'm a little astounded that you didn't see the similarity of fateful and callous decisions of these madmen.

dmiller, it wasn't 8 million, but have you heard of the Dresden tale? Dresden Holocaust by Churchill

Abigail, I don't think the U.S. played such a huge role in all of this... if you really want to blame a past country you could historically blame the Brits, who through their "British Mandate of Palestine" created this mess. We, as Americans, are now involved, because of globalists in our country who got us involved and are trying to keep us involved. (And I do not believe this is a "Jewish Globalist Conspiracy"... but, there ARE Globalists out there... Jewish and otherwise.) If they ARE Jewish, so what?... it is the "globalist" part I'm most concerned about. But I suppose there is this idea out there that we must continue to "pay for the sins of our forefathers" and therefore acquiese to the continued support of Israel and Zionism. Well, I just disagree with this concept as a freedom loving American who wants to get out of these deadly entanglements with other countries. Rather, I'd invite all Jews here (did somebody mention the State of Texas? :) ) so we can save huge amounts of money and lives. By getting ourselves "untangled" we'd be saving huge amounts of money, and lives (saving lives of Americans getting killed in future battles with middle easterners here, and abroad.)

Tom, I don't know if your question was just rhetorical, but I'll respond anyway. I believe the heart of the controversy lies not in whether Jews and others died a horrible death, of course they did and Nazi's are still responsible for that and are still racist and all .... but, whether or not it was an intentional, systematic, planned, event by Hitler and Co. This is the heart of the controversy and some folks want to dispute that... Butz disputes the usual understanding of what the Final Solution was, when he writes from his book:

Sogwap, I don't want to debate, just want to ask you, What does it mean to "continue in his goodness"? What have you been taught that means?