oldiesman

I wouldn't call what we didn't do "hate". What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive. Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.

I haven't thought about that much because I'm not one of those so-called "Christian Zionists". But my answer to that would be, the return of Christ isn't determined by what nations on earth do.

Well, here's my solution: if we (U.S.) earmarked that $3-4 billion of loot we routinely send to Israel every year, using it instead for Jewish folks who wanted to to emigrate to the U.S.... think of how well that would be accepted around the world, especially the Arab/middle eastern world. We would finally put an end to years and years of criticism that we devils are supportive of Zionism, and instead live in relative peace with the muslim world. Would save a ton of lives too. Win-win situation.

As we see from the last two paragraphs, if the U.S. did exert some pressure, i.e Truman, it didn't do much good. Instead it appears it was the Jewish underground terrorist forces who carried out several attacks against the British, that caused them to change direction.

Abigail, I am unaware of any huge U.S. pressure put on Britain to create the state of Israel. Please feel free to post facts that support your conclusion. Excerpted from Wikipedia about "British Mandate of Palestine":

No "specific" point by bringing up Dresden, just thought about it when I saw that view of Manhattan and thought about the atrocities of war. We seem to be commenting on two issues on this thread... one, the holocaust of Jews and whether it was planned and real, systemitized, etc. Second, does the continuous reminder of the Jewish holocaust have a political agenda, i.e., eventual goal of keeping the U.S. in full support of Israel and Zionist causes? I take another look at that Manhattan skyline, and wonder if Manhattan will ever really be exposed to a nuclear weapon, wiping all of it out, because of continued U.S. support/promise to protect the safety of Israel. It's scary.

I'm a little astounded that you didn't see the similarity of fateful and callous decisions of these madmen.

dmiller, it wasn't 8 million, but have you heard of the Dresden tale? Dresden Holocaust by Churchill

Abigail, I don't think the U.S. played such a huge role in all of this... if you really want to blame a past country you could historically blame the Brits, who through their "British Mandate of Palestine" created this mess. We, as Americans, are now involved, because of globalists in our country who got us involved and are trying to keep us involved. (And I do not believe this is a "Jewish Globalist Conspiracy"... but, there ARE Globalists out there... Jewish and otherwise.) If they ARE Jewish, so what?... it is the "globalist" part I'm most concerned about. But I suppose there is this idea out there that we must continue to "pay for the sins of our forefathers" and therefore acquiese to the continued support of Israel and Zionism. Well, I just disagree with this concept as a freedom loving American who wants to get out of these deadly entanglements with other countries. Rather, I'd invite all Jews here (did somebody mention the State of Texas? :) ) so we can save huge amounts of money and lives. By getting ourselves "untangled" we'd be saving huge amounts of money, and lives (saving lives of Americans getting killed in future battles with middle easterners here, and abroad.)

Tom, I don't know if your question was just rhetorical, but I'll respond anyway. I believe the heart of the controversy lies not in whether Jews and others died a horrible death, of course they did and Nazi's are still responsible for that and are still racist and all .... but, whether or not it was an intentional, systematic, planned, event by Hitler and Co. This is the heart of the controversy and some folks want to dispute that... Butz disputes the usual understanding of what the Final Solution was, when he writes from his book:

Sogwap, I don't want to debate, just want to ask you, What does it mean to "continue in his goodness"? What have you been taught that means?

I think what you've done is put all those who use revisionist facts in the same camp as the KKK. But not everyone who may want to expose the holocaust as a myth, would necessarily espouse the KKK and like organizations. Maybe there are some, but how do you know which one of them espouses those views? Would you say that the author of "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" A.R. Butz, espouses KKK ideology or is a white supremist? I don't get that from reading his stuff. While it may be true KKK and like organizations like to use facts from his book to promote their hate-filled ideology, is that Butz's fault? NO ... But he and others get lumped into one pot it seems. Just like Willis Carto, founder of Liberty Lobby (where "the Myth of the Six Million" was published). Carto gets labelled a White Supremist, fascist, Anti-Semite .... for communicating his information. But I believe he's about getting what he believes to be the truth out, and evidence indicates he doesn't hate Jews. But, does that stop some from labelling him a Jew hater and fascist? nah.. Here's a quote about Carto from Mark Lane, from his book "Plausible Denial". Lane, who describes Carto as "a true believer in the Constitution", represented Carto in the famous "Hunt v. Liberty Lobby" lawsuit:

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, I would call it continuing use of the holocaust as propaganda to achieve the goals of today's Jewish Lobby in the U.S, which may put Israeli interests ahead of U.S. interests, depending on the circumstances. I don't know that the people who print counter-arguments to the holocaust, are automatically Jew-haters, or should be blanketly labelled that way. Some of them are even Jews themselves (accused of being self-hating Jews?). Maybe it could simply be the revisionists want to get what they believe out there on the table, that they believe the facts they are presenting is the truth, or at least closer to the truth than what we have been continuously fed by some in the establishment media? When one examines their stuff (and I have been reading some of it) they don't come off to me as Jew Haters. Here's an article from today's paper from Molly Ivins of Creators Syndicate: click here: U.S. Policy on Israel Needs Frank Discussion or read below:

Garth instead of resorting to personal attacks, why not try to make an intellectual response to the information What the Hey is sharing with us...

dorky potty tush

Soundzgood. :)

Does that refer to his mother's religion, or genetics? or both? :blink: My friend Irving once told me that in order for a Jew to be a bona-fide Jew, your mother had to be Jewish. So then Hitler was Jewish?

CK, today's evidence indicates that this is true of some, but not all. And of those some, many of those were intermarried with folks from the middle east... thus, the genetic factor. Take some time and read over the history and studies at www.khazaria.com you'll gain more insight on this interesting topic.

Why thank you Ricky. :)

But without VAIN BABBLINGS we'd have so much less to discuss. :P

Many do, some don't. After reviewing some of the material that Raf suggested, it makes a great argument that most modern Jews are descendants of Shem. Some are not, as was suggested by Arthur Koestler. But even Koestler didn't suggest that all modern Jews came from Khazars, but only some. Koestler didn't even suggest that all Ashkenazi Jews came from Khazars, as some may have thought in twi, but only a portion. Dr. Wierwille was wrong when he stated flatly "the Jews are not semitic". He would have been correct had he stated "some Jews are not semitic". ****************** Interestingly, if the Jews fight the Arabs, the Jews can be labelled anti-semitic, since the Arabs are semitic as well. :P All of this is quite interesting stuff and one doesn't have to be a bona fide Nazi to believe it. Quote from information: Here's the website that contains the above quote and a plethora of information about this topic: www.khazaria.com

Raf, can you cite that specific research work here?

:D :lol:

Very interesting stuff, What the Hey. ************* This is a true stowray: Years ago, I lent the book to a Jewish friend of mine to read, his name was Irving Halpern, who didn't agree with it except for one chapter in the appendix that he was thoroughly excited about, and agreed with profusely. It is quoted below. It all seemed so hysterical ... that I read this book while in TWI, yet find out years later that this stuff can be real after talking with a friend who's name is referenced. Talk about interesting stuff!

They have a lot more and a lot differing information than "it didn't happen". You obviously haven't read some of their stuff, so I see why you might think it's nonsense.