oldiesman

There is evidence out there, but there is evidence from the revisionists of their point of view, as well. Therefore, I keep an open mind on this topic and want to continue to hear both sides.

All of this is very interesting and thought provoking, those are my thoughts. I made the comment that I thought what Dr. Wierwille said ("maybe we fought on the wrong side of WWII") was in the context of Wierwille's view of Hitler fighting "communism"... I didn't mean to say or infer anything about Hitler or Hitler's goals himself, but "Wierwille's view"... Maybe it will not help, but I will try to explain my position a little more clearly. Way back in those "good old days" of twi, when us old timers were around, you will recall there was a book in the bookstore called "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" (NDCC) This book was central, I believe, to Wierwille's beliefs about communism and world government, and what really threatened the U.S.. To him, communism was more than just an "economic theory". It was, as described in NDCC "an international, conspiratorial drive for power on the part of men in high places willing to use any means to bring about their desired aim -- global conquest." These were, as explained in that book, International Bankers and Insiders bankrolling the Boleshevik revolution and world communism, so as to use that method to control more and more people and eventually the whole world through their communist globalist empire (a.k.a one-world government). That information, plus information Wierwille was getting in the 70's from "The Spotlight" and other stuff, led him to believe that we fought on the wrong side of WWII, I believe, because we didn't fight this communist menace, which was being bankrolled and supported by these Insiders. Instead we were eradicating the force that would or might eventually destroy this menace. Now granted, I don't think Dr. Wierwille was totally correct, because he didn't take into account that the same Insiders who bankrolled the Bolesheviks could have been bankrolling Hitler. After all, one dictatorship is no better than another and who says Hitler can't be bought by these superbillionaires? But I was just pointing out that I could understand why Wierwille might say and think something like that, seeing communism as the tool for this worldwide conspiracy he did in the '70s... You may infer what you will from Wierwille's statement, but that is the way I see it and it makes sense to me.

I thought that the promises of God we were taught in twi were far better than the "I don't know, maybe, if it be God's will, we don't know, etc. etc,., of the religion of my youth.

Certainly as real a relationship there is "available". If it wasn't real, what is? All suggestions are welcome. :)

Ok now that we know there are some posters who believe Dr. Wierwille was a Nazi who supported the killing of Jews and others in WWII, having no problem wearing his embroidered swastika on his uniform while drugging young girls, may we count you in? Come on Raffy, let the other shoe drop will ya? I really want to know.

Golly Mo, that is pretty sick and accusatory thinking. Now folks are being thought of supporting the killing of Jews and others because of a supposed "attitude" you observed? Or the books they read? Gee, that's awefully considerate of you. My goodness, I wouldn't even label a revisionist himself a supporter of killing Jews and others without solid evidence of same; let alone labelling Wierwille and folks in twi that way. shame shame. For me to actually believe what you're suggesting I'd have to sit down and have an in-depth conversation with Dr. Wierwille, asking him exactly what he meant, what context, and so forth. Which of course I can't do. I'm not taking your word for it Groucho, you're just too darn anti-Wierwille and twi for me to think you'd deliver fair, non-accusatory information that is other than your usual all-negative thinking about them.

It was that part of what Hitler was doing that, I opine, Wierwille agreed with and that was why Wierwille said "we fought on the wrong side of WWII." You don't actually think that Wierwille supported the killing of the Jews and others, and/or world global conquest of Hitler, do you? THAT... would be ridiculous, really. But if you do, it is sheer speculation, with no evidence whatever to back it up. By the way, with regards to the world communist threat, we DID fight on the wrong side of WWII. Patton should have been allowed to kick their butts...

Yes, if he "admired" Hitler the way he is being accused of in this thread, yes, he was wrong. But as I opined before, he was heard saying that "we fought on the wrong side in WWII", and that was because Hitler was fighting communism, not because he was a glassy-eyed admirer of Hitler and fascism. Wierwille believed in oodles of other things contrary to fascism, like the Constitution, freedom of speech & religion, U.S. war veterans, etc. He believed in celebrating Memorial Day in the US. Fascists don't act like that.

Ha... spoken like a true believer in communism. :) Shows your bias, Tom. You will readily accept anything negative about Wierwille, but do not accept evidence to the contrary. Or if you do accept, you explain it away. Bias bias bias...

There is so so much out there, on this topic. Call it "spin" if you want and maybe it is, but thank God we have brains to accept/consider other viewpoints. Here's some interesting reading:

If Dr. Wierwille did "admire" Hitler, it was probably due to Hitler's fight against world communism and the Soviets, more than anything else; not the way Hitler treated Jews per se (although it has been said that Wierwille agreed with Hitler's plan for the emigration of Jews from Germany). But I can see VP saying we were on the wrong side in WWII, because with respect to communism, WE WERE. Some also may recall that Wierwille was an admirer of our World War II vets; he spoke highly and respectfully of them, my father included. So if Wierwille were truly this glassy eyed lover of Hitler and fascism, as some posters love to portray him, it doesn't make sense he would admire and speak well of those who fought against Hitler and fascism. Regarding the Mermelstein affair, I googled and received this response from the IHR website:Best Witness-Mermelstein My response to this would be, two wrongs don't make a right...

There is no evidence that Dr. Wierwille supported the killing of the Jews. Maybe because Hitler built the autobahns, and his mother was Jewish? :)

How can he wholeheartedly support it? He didn't even believe it existed, let alone know anything about it when it was happening. It is extremely unfair to equate lack of believing in the holocaust, with supporting it...

What the Hey, did you happen to check out the "U.S. Financial Aid to Israel" link that I provided? Pretty staggering isn't it?

Yes we should work toward not being dependent on their oil, as well. But I didn't infer that my "solution" was the perfect answer... I infer that it is much safer, and much more cost efficient, for the U.S. to quit supporting Zionism which exposes the U.S. (if not the direct cause, a BIG cause) to being entangled with decades of war with the middle east, costing thousands of lives and billions of money. Would the terrorists cease their attacks against U.S. if the U.S. showed a good faith effort to cease support of their enemies? I don't know, nobody knows for sure.. but it puts the U.S. in a safer position than what exists today. ha ha ha... sorry for the typo...

Encouraging is one thing, being mired down with decades of war with the middle east, costing many lives and much $billions, is another...

It really wouldn't be the U.S.'s job to "convince"; it would be honorable for U.S. to make this program available because of the continued support of the people of that region of the world, bearing in mind our desire to cease espousing Zionist causes. What is the current population of Israel? 6 billion? We could absorb that many, with a multi-year program. In the long run, it would save much money and so many lives, it's a no-brainer. We need a President who has enough courage to buck the trend of the last few decades, which might be the most unlikely of all tasks.

Tom, no matter how much aid we give the Italians (which I am not necessarily in favor of either, depends on the reasons), it PALES in comparison to Israel.Check this out: U.S. Financial Aid to Israel: Figures, Facts, Impact

Tom, what we are discussing here are actually two issues... (1) the details/facts about the holocaust itself and (2) regardless of the facts, whether or not these facts are currently being used as propaganda for continued Zionist causes... I believe it can be argued that #2 is relevant to this thread, because it was this "propaganda" issue that was a reason, I believe, why Dr. Wierwille included these books in the twi bookstore. There is evidence that he believed this information was being used as propaganda for continued financial Jewish/Zionist interests and therefore I believe it becomes one of the reasons why we were exposed to all of this, to begin with. You seem to be the only one clamoring that this is off topic, yet others seem to find this debate useful, so why not leave the aforementioned arguments in this thread too? Don't you think this stuff is interesting? I do. Here's some of what Wierwille wrote: Excerpted from... By The Way Victor Paul Wierwille Sept. 26, 1980 St. Marys Evening Leader

googled average age for a great dane -- 8 years. sounds like this blessed dog is ready for doggie heaven.

I already presented my solution in a previous post: allocate the current $3-4 billions we send over there using it instead for repatration of Jews and others to come here and be Americans. Get U.S. out of this perpetual support of Zionism, which not only deeply antagonizes the Arab/Muslim world causing all matter of endless wars and killings against us, and makes us look partial and subservient to this cause. As opposed to instead acting in the best interests of another country, over ours?Abso-f-in-lutely! We put our trust and monies in the hands of our elected officials, and we expect them to deliver for us, the people of the U.S. Anything else would be treason. I am an Italian by ethnic background. But, when compared to U.S. interests, I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about "Italian interests of Italy". I am an American first. But that's also why I wouldn't stop folks of all ethnic backgrounds from coming here and enjoying what I do... We wouldn't be walking away, we'd be changing policy to get out of their affairs and helping folks in the process; and terrorists would welcome that action and the terrorism against us would cease (why do you think we are targets now?), and it would make us safer. We are playing in THEIR backyard, we should get out... I don't know, but at least we should try to eliminate the problems we do have, when we see them.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What has been profitable about U.S. decades-long support for Israel? Really. Or perhaps a better question maybe would be ... are there any policies we may apply right now that would be more profitable to the U.S., than our current policy? I see U.S. support for Israel and Zionism as a net loss for our country, especially when you factor in the possible Iraq-war connection, started in 1991 and continuing to this day, with no end in sight. To me this is a HUGE issue. Next up: IRAN...

Thanks for that thread, I'll study it. There's no question the Presidents and other Christian Zionists favored it. What I question, is how much pressure they exerted... or whether it was U.S. pressure/force who carried it out or bought it to pass. I think not. In hindsight, perhaps U.S. should have opposed it for reasons we are discussing now.

I wouldn't call what we didn't do "hate". What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive. Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.