oldiesman

One other thing I'd like to mention: If Wierwille's and Martindale's and others' characters are such that they had or have no remorse for their sins, then that are their characters, and have little or nothing to do with the doctrine taught, which stands or falls on its own.

I think that was one of the points Sogwap was making but I could be wrong.

We don't know what if any remorse or amends Paul made to a family who he destroyed. We don't know, unless there are biblical references and I don't see any specific. I believe that was the original point of the comparison made, and not showing remorse and making amends doesn't mean the person isn't sorry or remorseful and doesn't mean the godly fruit that came from the spirit is counterfeit.

We still don't know whether he asked God for forgiveness, or what exactly is in his heart. If he really is the mean monster that some believe, it would be good for us to be praying for him.

I actually think exactly the opposite in most cases. While in twi, I believe many of us were going about doing the Word to the best we can, some of us going WOW, some Way Corps, some just doing the best being Joe believer in twig. While in twi, we were helping move the Word and thereby blessing folks with what we believe would help them. Contrast that to what I am doing now and I would say what I am doing right now is "me" centered. I am concerned about my own happiness. Maybe you are too? Hey that's nothing to be ashamed of as God wants us to be happy. But I refuse to disparage my or anyone else's twi involvement unless I know for sure...

And the point is what? That he lost his salvation? That he'll burn in hell? I still believe he's born again because of God's promise and God does not lie. I know that belief conflicts with the religion of my youth.

For crying out loud, Jesus himself had to come down and knock Paul over the head and get him to stop persecuting. Pauls intentions were not good and pure. They certain were zealous. When Paul was consenting to Stephens death, what Paul did was not pure and good. Golly even I see this. Talk about whitewashing someone's sins. But hey when it comes to Wierwille and Martindale, there is no mercy.

Actually Radar the topic is whether Paul apologized, and the answer we don't know.

Can you cite some examples?

Do you KNOW that Dr. Wierwille and Craig didn't ask God for forgiveness? Do you KNOW they weren't sorrowful for their sins?

Freud, I feel compelled to pipe in here and say that Craig never raped any woman, as far as I know. If he did, you can be sure he'd be in jail. The website that Belle referenced was started by the husband of a woman who at one time was an employee of TWI, and Craig approached this employee for sex, and the woman didn't say no, like some others did. She claimed in court papers that she "couldn't say no", a statement that I do not believe, and a statement that was never proven in a court of law. Some people falsely call what Craig did rape, but I don't believe it ... I call it sexual harassment. Be that as it may, folks are entitled to be represented correctly, even Craig Martindale.

I believe it is a matter of individual decision and contemplation. Not having had a wooden or silver cross around, didn't mean (or doesn't now mean) I disrespect or belittle the cross Christ bore.

Relax Rascal. Folks are entitled to their opinions, even folks who don't agree with yours.

You won't get attacked by me. Good post...

Golly that's for sure. CK thanks for being honest and sharing your opinions. It's obvious some folks just won't tolerate differing opinions...

I agree, it was about believing the Word of God that Dr. Wierwille was teaching. All those who chose not to believe, left. This concept is not different from many religions who stick with their own ideology and interpretations and those who disagree or cannot accept those ideologies, leave. The church of my youth is like that, among others.

Welcome Freud and thanks for posting.

That God loves me despite my sins (the palms of God)... How to get born again... That I have sonship rights... That I am completely completely absolutely complete in Him... My power of attorney... God wants me to hold fast that which is good... God wants me free from fear worry doubt anxiety and all matter of oppression... Speaking in tongues... Jesus Christ is the Way Truth & Life, no man cometh to God but by him... There is One Baptism by Holy Spirit and water baptism is not required for salvation... Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not God the Son... I am As He Is... Jesus Kept the Passover... Whatever a Person Believes Is Directly Reflected In What He Confesses... Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore... God wants me to believe all the benefits He has promised me thru Christ... Pauls Thorn in the Flesh... Ekklesia: Bride or Body? God is our Sufficiency... Church the Great Mystery Revealed, Christ in You, the hope of glory... The Bondage of the Sabbath Day.... Body, Soul, Spirit... The Unqualified Commitment... How to be a Christian... What true worship is... Filled to Overflowing.... Why Division... The Final Victory... Did I leave anything out? :)

As I see it, because Wierwille also did good things with the knowledge he learned, and folks needed and needing to hear the Word of God as set forth by Dr. Wierwille. Can't think of a reason other than that... not because of Wierwille's goodness, but has to be God's grace, and VP answering the call. I believe folks need to hear these things still even today ... as long as false doctrine is still being taught and folks are still walking in darkness. Let it be taught and let folks decide if they agree with it, just like we did. Why didn't God find somebody else who walked circumspectly or more circumspectly? He did. As we know, lots of the stuff VP taught was not original, so God found folks already, but I didn't hear the Word from those folks, I heard it through Dr.'s ministry and others affiliated with twi. So I am loathe to kick him or them in the teeth and slap God in the face because of the sins of Wierwille and others. God will deal with the judgment of those sins. I came from a background where the Word was virtually non existent, hacked to pieces to have any real meaning for me. The religion of my youth. I wore a scapula so Mary would pray for me to help me be blessed, maybe. I can't tell you how thankful I am to be rescued from that moronic garbage. But God says his Word will accomplish that which He pleases and shall prosper in the thing whereto He sent it.

That happened on one of my posts too. I used the term .... cat and it came out wimp cat. Haven't had much time to post this week, but count me in with Johniam, Allan & Jonny Lingo, etc. Attaboy Jonny.

You can speak for yourself Mark, but certainly not for me and thousands of others. Yeah I disagree, and God bless you too.

I wouldn't fake it for at least the one simple reason, that I wouldn't be able to prove to *myself* that it was real, let alone anyone else.

Oh well, since Mark is a prophet and he says thousands in twi are tricked into idolatry who am I to argue? I'm glad your God is the real one Coolwaters. God bless you.

No. I was dismissed from the Way Corps but stayed in twi until 1991, when I stopped attending fellowship voluntarily. But today, I wouldn't mind fellowshipping every once in a while if the fellowships weren't so far away. These folks aren't devils, they are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Still a false accusation Mark. Your blanket once-size-fits all condemnation of thousands of people is ungodly.