waysider

Yup---that definitely had an effect on our daily lifestyle.

Peachy keen! :) Yeah, I don't know why I forgot about that trinity thing----not just disbelief in it but a fear of it and disdain for all who professed it. I guess that played a big part of the stuff we believed, too

In the interest of keeping this on topic, here's a thread about miracles and such: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=16327&hl=

Recently, I had a conversation with someone who wanted to know what our core beliefs were back in the day. Now, I'm not talking about 4 crucified, Eli, Eli----, etc. What I'm talking about are the beliefs that governed our behavior and day-to-day living. The best I could come up with was devil spirits, manifestations and the hedge of protection. :( Any thoughts?

Oh, I'm not so sure about that. When I took the AC in 1973, it was already plenty weird regarding devil spirits.

I can't remember if it was Raf or Jerry B., but someone has done work on this. It's here somewhere, I just don't know where.

Interestingly, studies have shown that, while one is engaged in speaking in tongues, the areas of the brain that are normally active when language is being processed, become relatively inactive. Thus, your brain is not processing language in a typical sense. ****************************** "A group of researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine used Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography (SPECT) to analyze brain activity within individuals as they spoke in tongues. It was the first study of this kind. During this technique, a small quantity of a radioactive drug is injected into a person's vein. The scanner then makes detailed images of tissues as cells take up the drug. During an interview on 2006-SEP-20 by Steve Paulson, Andrew Newberg -- Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies and Director for the Center for Spirituality and the Mind, at the University of Pennsylvania -- said that the region of the brain involved in language is not activated when a person speaks in tongues." http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues5.htm

"Yes, Your Honor, there was snow on those gas pumps."

More to ponder Speaking in tongues already existed before and during the lifetime of Christ. Why didn't he ever encourage people to speak in tongues? Again, please note that I have specifically used the Way acronym, "S.I.T." That's because I'm referring specifically to the "WAY" teachings regarding the topic. How did you feel when you discovered that speaking in tongues is not an exclusive activity of Christians and that it is not an ability bestowed solely upon the "born-again" or proof of the "new birth"? Those items are contrary to TWI doctrine, thus the TWI doctrine (of S.I.T.) is bogus.

Shhhhhhh!----They can hear you!

Having been there in TWI in the early 1970's, I find I must disagree with this part. Drugs were very much taboo. The thinking that prevailed was that drugs would open a trap door in your mind and let in devil spirits. Likewise, premarital and extramarital sex was considered "off The Word" at the rank and file level. In fact, in Fellow Laborers, if you were caught using drugs or having illicit sex, you were promptly dismissed from the program. Now, does that mean that no one did these things? Of course not. But, there were instances that involved people being tossed out in the middle of the night when they were caught. ("Wham, Bam, thank ya, Ma'am"---get your butt out of Ohio before the sun comes up!) Sorry, didn't mean to derail. I just felt like that particular point needed clarification. Back to the "Too Many Chiefs" theme.

Maybe this should be on the "my story" thread. I'm not sure. I only know that it seems to tie into this one. ( I'll try to give the abbreviated version.) When I got "witnessed to", not only was I an adult, I was already estranged from my family. Big time! When I made the split with my family, it was a very, very intense experience. -----Fast forward---I get made a twig leader and my kid brother shows up for twig meetings. He wants to take PFAL so, for his 16th birthday, my parents pay his way into the class. -----fast forward again----my parents take the class---my Mom becomes a twig leader. My parents meet lots of great people with whom they maintain friendships that span decades. Lots and lots of great memories are made. -----at the same time--- My brother gets on the TWI conveyor belt line. Lots of classes. Three leadership training "programs". Lots of memories are made. Not all of them are great. Some of them are, well, you know. Chalk it all up to fate. I'm not really sure anymore. All I know is that it was my zeal for The Way that played a large part in how these three lives evolved. And, while I recognize my role as a factor in the equation, I can't allow myself to feel guilty. I never did anything out of malice or greed. I simply thought I had struck gold and wanted my family to share in the wealth. It's convoluted. Life is convoluted. You can't beat yourself up for doing what you thought would help people. Some were helped, some were hurt. Life is like that sometimes. All I can do is say I'm sorry for the adverse effects my involvement may have indirectly caused. I truly mean it.

At least that choice is yours, not someone elses.

Well, he WAS "sour", dontcha know!

I wonder, if years from now, some of our younger posters will look back at this thread and see it as a good time or a bad time. :lol:

Like Twinky stated, money and time were always a major consideration. It seems like it's only been in the last decade or so that picture taking has become so affordable and easy. That might not mean a hill of beans to many people but we really had to use our time and resources judiciously back then.

Well, if this thing hasn't become convoluted enough, I'll toss in another twist. When I was in Fellow Laborers, there came a point where I thought that, perhaps, the most reasonable thing for me to do was to completely call it quits. But herein lies the problem. Back home, I had family that were heavily involved in The Way. I had brought them into the fold. How would I now tell them I might have made a terrible mistake? I wasn't really sure if my doubts had any merit. Likewise, there were local believers who looked up to those of us who chose to become involved in the various "commitment-demanding" programs. If I was wrong, what effect would my quitting have on their stands? Was it right for me to be so selfish when I wasn't even sure if my suspicions were real? Does any of this make sense? Some things that are blatant and intentional beg to have someone claim ownership. Others simply have to be accepted as kismet. Beyond that, I really have no answers except that, if there is anything reasonable in the here and now you can do to rectify what you feel was a personal indiscretion in the past, maybe it's time to act on it. Otherwise, it's what my Grandpa used to call "crying over spilt milk". Please believe me, I don't use that expression lightly or as an attempt to minimize anyone's personal experience. But sometimes "there ain't nothing you can do but put your shoulder to the wheel and keep pushin' on".

If I say that I personally feel guilty for my involvement, that's one thing. If I say that anyone who ever participated shares that guilt, that's quite another. This is where things start to get gray and blurry. Did I ever have good times?---Yes. Do I ever feel guilty for dragging my family into the ministry?---Again, the answer is yes. I can only answer those questions for myself. Good, bad or indifferent, the overall price of it was far too high.

Who ya gonna call?

You can't lose what you ain't never had.

OK---That's my real name. But for gosh sakes, keep it under your hat.

Even The Flat Earth Society has "hangers-on".

To clarify some points: 1.I used the Way acronym, "SIT", to refer to "speaking in tongues as taught by The Way." 2.I have lived with someone for 26 years who admittedly faked, not only SIT, but TIP and Prophesy for over 2 years before leaving The Way. So, no, I don't base my assessment on the testimony that has been presented here by some others on GSC. 3. I, too, spoke in tongues before PFAL and it was an amazing and uplifting experience for me as well. 4. I never said that "it's always fake". ******************************************************* The basis of my "premise" is that SIT, or "speaking in tongues as taught in The Way", is bogus. As a quick reference, I offer sessions 11 & 12 of PFAL. On page 62 of the PFAL syllabus, Wierwille offers a list of "12 things that speaking in tongues is". That list is nothing more than a list of Wierwille's private interpretation (or the private interpretation of whomever may have inspired him.) with scriptures thrown in to give it some Biblical credibility. What Wierwille taught in PFAL is what is commonly called glossolalia. Glossolalia has been practiced since long before the "first century". It's also been practiced by non Christians.There have been many studies conducted on glossolali and, surprisingly, the effects of glossolali are not as damning as might be presumed. The application and exploitation of said practice, however, is a whole different matter. The SIT we were taught in PFAL was really nothing substantially different than the glossolali that has been practiced by Christians and non-Christians alike for thousands of years and predates Christ himself by thousands of years.To be so brazen as to say "it's proof in the senses realm that you're going to Heaven and all hell can't stop you" is a bogus, blatant and deplorable misrepresentation and application of scripture. GLOSSOLALIA (rather lengthy but worth the read)