waysider

Just like a ghost you've been hauntin' my dreams So I'll propose on Halloween.

I believe the answer is "yes". Take, for example, the way he kept revising his books to try to make the plagiarism less obvious. That takes a conscious and deliberate effort. It demonstrates that he was cognizant of his deception.

Before he had a following, it would best be described as an intent to deceive. I believe the intent to deceive existed long before he was able to generate enough interest to amass a following.

I don't think the followers are a factor in the question, which was whether or not Wierwille's deceptions were deliberate.

In a little cafe just the other side of the border---

The Tulsa snowstorm was a blatant lie. Wierwille confirmed that he knew it was by later inventing a new version to cover his tracks.

Yes

His deliberate falsehoods and deceptions would seem to indicate otherwise.

It might be why some people, who were never (or minimally) subjected to the isolation that was built into the various TWI programs, never seem to really "get it".

COOL! One less vial of poison out on the street. :lol:

Shambala----3 Dog Night

Cristo Redentor--------David "Fathead" Newman

Based on the logic of this interpretation, Wierwille should have been incinerated by a lightning bolt the first time he told the gas pump stowwrey. If the snow pump story was true, then it serves to demonstrate Wierwille was lying to God when he agreed to teach things that hadn't been known since buttons were invented. (Because he did not follow through on that agreement.) Thus, God would have stricken him dead for such a blatant lie to The Holy Spirit..

-----Dan Fogelberg

Can someone take my turn? :)

Free post, anyone?

I want those tapes and I mean business, Mister!

Geeze, it's been an awful long time. I remember some sort of paper coming with the materials that specified a return date but I don't remember ever signing anything that said I would. Anyway, this whole discussion puts a different complexion on the argument that all the plagiarized stuff really belonged to God, or whatever that rationalization was.

It's been a whole lot of years since I made yogurt. I found THIS link, though, describing a process that sounds very much like what we used to do. I'm not even sure they had fancy yogurt makers back then so I know you can do just fine without one. You will need a candy thermometer because the temperature is crucial. The directions mention adding powdered milk as a thickener. I don't recall ever doing that but maybe my memory isn't clear on that point. Some people like to keep a batch of BRANDIED FRUIT to add to it when served. I've eaten it that way but have never brandied the fruit myself.

People Get Ready

I recalled the afternoon before when I had been walking past Craig's apartment and looking in the window as I walked past, I had been shocked and stunned to see..... -----------a plate of steaming, hot food. Real food. Not wilted endive surprise, mung bean sprout supreme, red beets jubilee or millet on a stick. Real food. Drooling uncontrollably, I glanced about to see if I was being observed. Satisfied that I was alone, I quickly------

Originals might be exempt under certain circumstances. (I think.) For example, I still have my set of individual collaterals that came with the class before they were combined into the blue book, the green book, etc. These, I believe were published and distributed before the copyrights were issued and have no copyright markings in them.

I would think the timing would be relevant as well. When did the white notebooks in the ebay ad first appear? Before or after the copyright was issued? Do these materials display a copyright symbol? That kind of stuff, ya know?

I wanted to comment on what I believe was a "snapping" incident I witnessed and see if anyone witnessed anything similar. In approximately 1976, the FLO program brought in some people from the "outside" and subjected us to a weekend indoctrination type event. It was not optional. We were not pre-advised of its content. Participation was a required part of our program. From what I've heard and read about Momentus, it appears to have been similar. If I am correct, there were a few FLO who were on field assignments that weekend and were not present. I'll try to keep this brief, so I'm leaving out graphic details. There was a particular young lady in our program who was artistic and creative. She was moody, broody, up, down, resistant to the program at times and compliant at others. In other words, she was a real, living, breathing, human being. Everyone who knew her loved her just the way she was. What happened that weekend wasn't pleasant or pretty and it transformed her into a state of perpetual cheerfulness and smiling giddiness. It was like that movie The Stepford Wives. Don't get me wrong, we all still loved her. We were perplexed, though, by this new person she seemed to have become----in one short weekend! Not the frog in the pot kind of thing, though I'm inclined to think that could lead up to one of these.She remained that way for the duration of the program. Last I heard, she went into the WC after graduation. (1977) I lost track of her. The assaults and tirades launched at me personally that weekend had very little lasting effect on me. (I hope) But, seeing what they did to her and some others has haunted me ever since. I think what I witnessed was a genuine "snapping" incident. It's a very disturbing thing to witness. Has anyone else witnessed one of these close up and personal? How has it affected you? edit: I'm not necessarily talking about a "face melting", but, rather, an incident that results in this kind of sudden profound change.