waysider

As an organization, I don't think they are likely to cease to exist. Consider, if you will, The Malthusians( followers of Thomas Malthus), The International Order Of Odd Fellows/Rebekahs, The Flat Earth Society, etc. All TWI has to do is stay under the radar and maintain a semblence of existance in order to survive. Please note that I have not singled out the above organizations to suggest that they have negative implications. I am merely citing these to illustrate that organizations that may be completely unknown to the general populace have managed to endure the test of time. The question that I ponder is; what ,if any, role will they play in the general scheme of things and especially in the religious community? My personal opinion is that as a spiritual beacon, their light has been extinguished for quite some time now.

"MI MI MI----LA LA LA" Oops, sorry ---You said "fat lady." There was a thread awhile back about biblical scholars that, if I remember correctly, may have mentioned some "real" ministers that were involved with The Way. How about Rev. Tracy and Peter Wade? Were Doop and Heefner ministers before the "Jesus Movement"? This part I don't recall. I don't know if Bishop Pillai was truly involved, but his name certainly got dropped in a manner that seemed to be meant to lend credability.

"The evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with Caesar." As to "Are The Dead Alive Now?"---------I believe the origin of that text has been discussed here at GSC and can be found in the archives.(Nudge, nudge--Wink, wink)

Bolshevik I think your question was relevent and not at all a derail. I have a special relationship with both my parents even though they are two distinctly different individuals. Maybe "relationship" isn't the best word to describe what TWI devalued regarding Jesus. There was always an inordinate emphasis placed on Christ Jesus (the resurrected one) and very little discussion of Jesus Christ(the man). Trinity or no trinity, we learned very little about Jesus, the man , and instead talked about how we ourselves took his place on Earth after the ascention(to the extent that we represented The Word, as Jesus Christ WAS The Word) What could possibly be so wrong with reading the gospels and learning how Jesus handled himself in day to day life? Yet, that is not the approach that was taken in TWI(at least during my involvement which was primarily in the '70's and early '80's.) Personally,I believe in praying to God with Jesus being my advocate. But again, I think that maybe that discussion is just a red herring diverting us from coming into a knowledge of Jesus, a man just like us in so many ways.

I have been removed from the situation too long to know one way or the other. If it is true, though , I should think it would be on a level of importance that parallels the death of VPW from something he himself proclaimed to be devil possession.

Sorry, Son of the Master I misunderstood the cruxt of the thread. Denying us of a relationship with Jesus was, indeed, one of the more damaging things that was foisted on us in TWI.(IMO) Focusing on the existance or non existance of the trinity certainly served to sidetrack us from that issue.(again,IMO) We sure weren't afraid to sing "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Sweetest name I know." Guess we just neglected to think about what that meant.

The high school I went to had movies in the auditorium at lunch time. Half of your lunch period was spent actually eating lunch and the other half could be used for study hall or noon movies where a small snip of a movie was played each day like the old time serials that used to play in movie houses.(I think it was 3 cents a day) One of the movies that played at least once or twice a year was "Shane" with Alan Ladd. At the end of the movie, as Shane rides off into the sunset, the little boy character runs after him with tears in his eyes and hollers"Come back, Shane, I love you!" It was pretty hokie and of course it became somewhat of a ritual for the entire auditorium to recite those words right along with the little boy. Kind of a forerunner of the Rocky Horror Picture Show experience. And so with that image in mind, I think the new rallying cry should be: "Don't go, Ducky, we love you!" Now where's my 3 cents?

We have three machines in our house so we too have a router. Every now and then, all we get is "cannot find server------Check connections, yada,yada,yada." I look at all the connections but never find anything amiss and disconnecting/ reconnecting does nothing. Hours later, out of the blue, Shazam!, everything is fine. I haven't the foggiest idea what causes it but basic logic seems to tell me its outside the system in my home. I also had that "slow" problem until my son did the latest Firefox upgrade. I think I'm beginning to understand what my grandparents(big Lawrence Welk fans) must have felt like the first time they heard Jimi Hendrix play "The Star Spangled Banner".

Cowgirl I have a CD that features one of the best renditions of Bachs' "Jesu, The Joy of Man's Desiring" I have ever heard. The CD is titled "Music That Touches The Heart(Lyrical Classics Played on the Harmonica)". It is a recording that features world renown classical harmonica player, Cham-Ber Huang and pianist, Zhou Guang-Ren. Also represented on the CD are pieces by Vivaldi, Bizet, Handel, Beethoven, etc. This is not a gimmick. It is the real deal. I'm not sure where you can find it. I bought my copy from Cham-Ber Huang, himself, several years ago. Last I heard the phone number for his company was (516) 842-1907. If you can't find it, let me know and I will burn you a copy.( I rarely burn anything but if something is not available what other options are there?) PS --- Most of the classical harmonica material available would probably be well suited to your search because a high percentage of it is Baroque.

Imagine for a moment that this discussion is not about The Way, but about the boy scouts or ymca or united way or one of the other large organizations that have had to deal with corruption of one type or another. There would be no mention of people being raised from the dead or the blind receiving sight. Those are, of course, valid topics for discussion but they would probably be best handled on another thread. In fact, a search of the archives would likely reveal there is much information already here to address these topics. Like Dooj said, there were signs of corruption even in the early days. A lot of the stuff that I saw that was suspect, was in the mid '70's. And, as has been pointed out, I,too, thought these were isolated incidents and had no idea how widespread some of this activity was until one day a litle light bulb went off in my head and I realized"AHA! So THAT'S what that was all about!" The "lockbox" concept was taught (publically) as far back as" Christian Family and Sex ". In that class, VPW discussed the need for marital partners to each have their own "lockbox" where they kept information regarding their sexual history locked away from their partner. Now, to a teenager taking this class, that concept might not have had so much significance. I, myself, though was an adult when I took this class and this certainly seemed like a pretty important concept. Of course, the "lockbox" being referred to in this thread has a slightly different connotation, but it is my belief that it is merely a paramutation of one and the same.(See where the little light bulbs start to glow?) It's a bit like a variation of the "let's keep this our own little secret" line that seems to be a favorite "tool of control" that pedaphiles use. Looking back, I would have to say that it is my opinion that some of the sexual advise that VPW dished out publically was nothing more than a smokescreen, put in place so doubters would be scoffed at and told"That's not what DR. taught!"

The good Dr. was still an intern when this one hit the airwaves, though that is really just trivia. I'm sure you know this one so it's your turn if you want it.( Don't let that go right to your head, though.)

Dot---- Your last post connected for me because I, too, gave up what I was trying to build as a career in acting and music in order to become more involved and committed with The Way. I look back sometimes and wonder "What if?". It definately conjures up feelings of remorse and melancholy. But, I guess there are plenty of people in this world who never heard of TWI that do the same thing.The best I can figure is "ya just gotta" enjoy the scenery on the road you're traveling and always keep your eyes alert for any unexpected turns that may lead to an enjoyable side trip. And who knows? Maybe that other road was full of pot holes anyway. We'll never know, at least not in this lifetime. Waysider

"Hey,kids! Grab a green card and sign them up for PFAL." Just kiddin'. Before I became involved with The WAY, I had never even heard of the trinity. OK, maybe that's because I spent more time studying R. Crumb comics than The Book Of Acts, dunno. So, when the "teachings" led to serious discussion of this issue, it all seemed rather silly to me. I mean, who believed this trinity stuff anyway? Lo and behold, I came to find out the answer to that question was "the vast majority of the Christian world". I still don't understand the logic of the trinity but I don't know if that's because TWI drummed its "importance" into my head or because it was never a part of my core beliefs to start with. Anyway, I don't think our salvation depends on how we feel about this issue any more than it matters whether Jesus trimmed his beard or not. Live the best life you know how to and let the chips fall where they will. That's my opinion. Yeah, I know. Everybody has one.

Dangit! I gotta get a computer that let's me look at some of this stuff. The "You figure it out!" part, though, reminds me of an interview I once saw with Jose Feliciano. When he told the interviewer he subscribed to the Braille version of Playboy, the interviewer, rather than make an issue of Felicianos' blindness, simply asked him what part he enjoyed the most. Without missing a beat, Feliciano grinned widely and replied"Vargas Girls!" Well, this IS "Just Plain Silly", after all!------You figure it out.

AHH. Winter's almost over The summer she's comin' on strong I could love you, love you, love you all year long. This is another classic that shows up frequently

Roast duckling with orange glaze Wild rice dish Cranberry-Walnut relish Old fashioned bread pudding Relish and pudding can be made in advance/duckling and rice can be made at same time and travel well if covered to retain heat

Is that Mott The Hoople-----"All The Young Dudes"? When you said pre-'85, you weren't kiddin'!

In the neighborhood where I grew up , there were many(and I mean MANY) people who had experienced the horrors of the concentration camps of eastern Europe. These were the parents and grandparents of kids who were my age. Can you imagine how cruel it would have been to tell them "Hitler's dead, none of that matters now." Look, I'm not saying that TWI was like a concentration camp. What I am saying is that even though VPW is dead, the effects of his actions continue to have an impact that will probably last a very long time. Again, this is not about what Jesus Christ did for us, or how great God is, or whether we had some good times in TWI. It is about accepting once and for all that The Way was a corrupt organization and that there were serious doctrinal problems that existed at the uppermost levels. It's about coming to grips with the realization that much of what we did there was really a fruitless effort. It hurts,I know. But it's all part of the healing process. edited to correct some poor grammar.

Cynic----------An energetic response, to say the least.

Nope----Nothing here, Must be from an era when all I listened to was Pressed Down and Good Seed. HEHEHE! I still pop those on from time to time.(and enjoy every last note)

"I buried Pauls' Hofner" Heresy I tell you, shear heresy! Not because of Paul, because of the Hofner! Seriously T-Bone, I love playing that "short scale" even though mine is an Epiphone, not a Hofner. It feels so much better on these old beat-up hands than my P Bass ever did. Stop in one of those big box stores and try a few familiar runs to compare the two. SHHH! Don't tell Tonto I encouraged you to look at new toys!

"Of couse it would be just awful to simply say"-----"The meal is over and it's time to clear the tables." Oh she sailed away on a sunny,sunny day on the back of a crocadile "You see",said she,"he's as tame as he could be." "I'll ride him down the Nile."---------------- The only thing that made this one OK for me was that the person who always led it had a heart of gold.(at least in my opinion) Well the croc winked his eye As she waved them all "goodbye" * * * * At the end of the ride the lady was inside And the smile was on the crocadile HMMM!-----Me thinks I feel a metaphor approaching!

I feel like somewhat of an outsider posting here because I left so long ago that I don't feel any bitterness or need to defend/condemn TWI. When I first came here, I spent a lot of time looking at the vast volume of factual information that is right here to find.( if one is inclined to do so.) To be honest, I felt more of a sense of relief than anything else. I was relieved because, finally, I could stop feeling guilty that things that happened or,for that matter, didn't happen after I left TWI had nothing to do with God being displeased with me for forsaking "the household".(I forsook a CULT!) As I see it, the cruxt of this discussion is not whether God is good or to cite anecdotal incidents, but to reach inside ourselves and question whether or not we can come to grips with the possibility that we were duped( not by God, but by an organization) and accept that, although most of us reaped benefits to one degree or another, it came at a price that was beyond reason. "Does TWI need to be good?" Well, that all depends on whether one chooses to rationalize their involvement or face the facts head-on. My mom taught a twig for a long time. She never pushed Greek words or the latest "research". Instead, she focused on Gods' unconditional love, something she taught us kids long before any of us even heard of TWI. When word came down from HQ that she would have to disconnect her twig from TWI because the ABS was not in line with the corporate standard,(not the "official" reason given) it didn't anger people, it made them feel guilty and hurt that they couldn't measure up to the standards that were set before them that "surely had been Divinely inspired".(to be read with a touch of sarcasm.) If it make you feel better to hold onto the idea that the ends justified the means, then be my guest. Just don't bury your head in the sand and pretend this is all about people feeling bitter or resentful because it's not. It's about coming to an awareness of what really happened. Some of it was good, some of it was bad. Just be honest with yourself and try to seperate the one from the other.

Engraved on the tombstone of a hypocondriac: "I TOLD you I was sick!"

If I counted the days correctly, tomorrow will be Watered Gardens' last day as one of us working stiffs. Best wishes and hope you have fun with your "truck garden". Truck garden-------Hmmm!--------I think I saw one of those as I was driving down the highway the other day. It looked like they might be growing some Chevettes and Pintos along with those trucks.