waysider

Kudos, Mr. B. :eusa_clap: The only degree I have is an A.A.S.(Associate of Applied Science). Still, being an adult when I got it, I feel like I accomplished something important in pursuing it. I'm glad I did.

It was , indeed, The Buckinghams but it was not "Kind Of A Drag." Here's more info. It was originally recorded by Cannonball Adderley a year before the Buckinghams had a hit with it.

Remember when somebody ( might have been VPW) taught that if no one shows up for twig and it's just you and God, you have twig anyway? Could that day be rapidly approaching?

Will It Go Round In Circles?

Yeah, everybody in the neighborhood Will testify that my girl she sure looks good And she's so fine She'd give eyesight to the blind And if she ever leaves me I will lose my mind. Hint: this was also a big hit as an instrumental. OK, the words don't help with that but I think you know what I mean.

Well, Mr. M. Perhaps you could initiate a critical examination of sorts(forum style) here at the Cafe. An overview of the aforementioned might be a good launching point. Maybe examine literary merit and style, etc. before sending it to the doctrinal discussions. Just a thought.

Dr. WearWord I know you're set on convincing me of something, I just can't figure out exactly what that something is. So far all I've seen is regurgitation of various bits and pieces of Way doctrine and mumbo jumbo. You might want to rethink that offer of a new epistle( yes, I know a letter can be considered an epistle but I don't think that's the meaning you were trying to place on it.) People tend to lose interest in the projection of so called prophets whose predictions fall short. You don't need a scripture for that comment. Common sense will tell you the same thing. In my first post on this thread, I asked,"Why MUST there be a law of liberty?" My challenge to you is to simply explain your answer to that question in your own words, without reiterating bits and pieces of thought that have their origins in The Way. I don't think an entire epistle will be necessary.

Sounds like a classic case of rationalization by a Wierwille sympathiser.

LNM I have posted the specifics regarding that incident but I don't recall where and when. I think it might be on *my story*. It's what( in retrospect) has convinced me that revelation is VERY real and not just some little "whisper in the ear, did I really hear that?" kind of deal. I don't think the subject of debuhl spurts had even been introduced to me yet at that time. I had only been speaking in tongues for a day or two and had not had the class yet. It was the first time I did a "lift list". I know now that I should have followed my own thoughts on the matter but hind sight is always 20/20.

Eva CassidyPeople Get Ready

Actually, I believe God WAS telling me, "Stay out, stay out!" It happened within the first week or so after I was witnessed to. I didn't know what to make of it so I asked my twig leader who then assured me it was nothing more than unrenewed mind. It was, by far, the most VIVID case of "unrenewed mind" I ever experienced. My mistake was in listening to the twig leader instead of heeding the warning that was given to me. What did I know? I hadn't even taken the class at that point in time. I never even understood what had happened until I got to GSC and started to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

I started playing in little bands in about the 8th grade. Parties, school dances and that kind of thing. Then, in about the 10th grade, I started playing in bar bands. Pretty good money for a kid. One night we were setting up in this little club and a couple guys right out of "The Godfather" came through the front door. "Hey, kid", they said, "Lemme see yer union card". "Huh?" Long story short, they let us play the gig but by the next night we were all card carrying members of the American Federation Of Musicians. During high school, I had a day job in the summer working in an amusement park operating kiddie rides. Sometimes it was cutting it pretty close getting from there to the band gigs. Hmmm. I think I'm beginning to see why my grades were so bad.

They're coming to take me away HA HA To the funny farm Where life is beautiful all the time----------------------

Geeze. The original cover for The White Album looks pale in comparison.

"What am I forgetting?" Limb properties!!! The Way Of Ohio limb hq was located on a very nice property that is now at the heart of one of the most desirable real estate locations in Ohio. I do not know what it was worth when they unloaded it or what kind of profit was made on the sale. The point is, though, that TWI had many holdings that the average schmoe was not privy to. What about things like antique motorcycles and cars? I know the good dr. had a red 1967? Pontiac Bonnieville or Catalina that was restored to mint condition. I know it existed because I rode in it. He also had a vintage Indian motorcycle. Those items were purchased ( as far as I know) with either ABS money or gift donations. What ever became of them or the money generated from their sale? There are probably a lot of items we can't actually forget because we never even knew they existed.

When I was in about third or fourth grade, I had to walk the kid across the street to school. He was in first grade. Not that the streets of inner city Cleveland were dangerous or anything, our parents just thought it would be nice. One morning when Sammy arrived at the front door, as was his custom, I noticed his pants were on backwards. The fly was in the back. "Sammy",said I, "Your pants are on backwards." Sammy looked at me and shrugged. Then, without missing a beat, he said, with an air of disconcern, "Nobody will notice." Today people call him "Father Sam" You just never know how a kid's gonna turn out.

Remember the teaching VPW did about a preacher who worked on his sermon all week and kept the notes in his desk drawer? According to VP, the debuhl peeked at the notes at night and then turned the people's hearts against the Sunday sermon. ( I think this was in PFAL.) VP went on to say that's why he liked to "wing it" as he listened for God to tell him what to teach as he was teaching it. :blink: :asdf:

Actually, Mr. B., a "song" has words. What you have described is more technically a "piece of music". But what the heck, if it floats your boat, it's all good.

"Doctrine is a very, very small part of what makes a group a cult."-----Belle Amen to that!!

I think , to some extent, this controlling and micro-managing is a big part of why it can be so hard for some to "Just get over it and move on". It may also explain why some who remained at their local twigs and branches will insist they never saw any of these things. That's only logical. Much of this treatment was dealt out only in the so-called training programs. I mean, you can get past the doctrinal stuff like speaking in tongues or the trinity because those are things that lend themselves to discussion. This history of being controlled and micro-managed, however, is something that triggers an automatic response before you even know what hit you. The workplace can be one situation where you react almost instinctively to "control" and "directives" that mimic those experienced in TWI. It can make you overly submissive or overly defensive to similar treatment. It can spill into family life, also. That's why it's important to try to be cognizant of things that "push your button" and learn to deal with them logically. That's my opinion, anyway.

I always thought it was meant to suggest you should pledge your commitment to the organization, not to the organization's members, kinda like the old term "company man". To me, that definition seemed to make sense because we were convinced that there was no real "Word" outside of TWI's confines.

2 twigs= a branch?!!!!! Now that's one scrawney tree!

Oldies I read through the posted thread. I saw a discussion of the trinity but nowhere did I see anyone declare themself to be a trinitarian. And anyway, so what if they had? Does that automatically make them a "kook" or "extremist"? Does being a trinitarian invalidate anything else you might present? Think twice before you answer that last question. Bishop KC Pillai was a trinitarian. So was Bullinger. Are you prepared to label them as "kooks" and "extremists"? Was The Way a Satanic cult? I don't know. Neither do you. I do know, however, that they were/are a cult by the definition that is generally accepted by most of the non- TWI world. VPW once said that the "world" considered us a cult because we rejected the trinity. It is my suggestion that the "world" called us a cult because that's what we were. You have seen people recount experiences that just don't happen in Godly organizations. Would a Godly organization suggest that you STONE your children or toss them out of a moving car? I'm glad that your experience was not as extreme or damaging as some that have been posted here. That doesn't in any way justify what many here have had to endure. Please don't minimize the significance of others' experiences

Salute to the Armed Forces

annam I did not really understand the essense of your most recent post. Could you expand on what you mean by having a defence for the offense? People have been commenting on the fallout that ensued due to Wierwille's appointment of Martindale. (for the sake of brevity, we often resort to abbreviations such as VPW for Wierwille or LCM for Martindale or WOW for Word Over The World Ambassadors.) It's too labor intensive to keep using full names and terms when so many understand the meaning.) Your opinion on how this event affected The Way International(TWI) is just as much welcomed here as anyone elses. That doesn't mean, of course, that all will agree or disagree with you. So, with that in mind, how do you feel about the above mentioned event? Mistake? Not a Mistake? Don't care either way? None of the above.