George Aar

And THEN factor in the public humiliation the Vicster subjected ALL of his family to on occasion. Yeah, I don't have a clue as to why they continue to revere him. I think Freud coulda come up with a few ideas, though...

Well, I don't know about ALL of 'em, but the few I did know spent a goodly portion of their time beating their wives, beating their children, getting drunk, and going to "titty" bars. And, oh yeah, they also yelled at others a lot for their lack of spirituality...

Yeah, is this some kind of Passive/aggressive thing?

Well, I'm glad for you Hammy. I thought from the title of the thread you'd just had a urinalysis done. Whuddu I know? :blink:

Wow! That's some story. And, as others have already noted, it's always amazing to see the similarities from one cult to the next. The same seperation from "real" world, the same denial of self, and the same disconnect from basic, everyday, barnyard-variety common sense. And I don't mean to play "if you show me yours, I'll show you mine" when it comes to basic acceptance of people, but I have to admit, I wasn't exactly a fan when you first started posting. I think I've got a bit more favorable of an opinion of you now, if that means anything. It always amazes me the extremes we'll tolerate to be "in" the group. What with now some 20 years between me and my cult daze, I can't even really tell you why I ever got so involved with WayWorld. There's some weird button someplace that cult leaders learn to push I think. I always hated my involvement with The Way, and seldom volunteered that I was a part of the organization, but there I was, every August, in that fetid cornfield in Ohio, saying "Bless you" to everybody I met. Jeezus, was that really me? But I think the REAL problem isn't even so much giving allegiance to weird cults, but in the abandoning of reason in favor of magical thinking. The default position of opting for "God's" guidance over our own. The willingness to accept untested, unsupported, unprovable concepts if they're cloaked in some sort of "divine" trappings. "After all, not MY will, but GOD'S will" was our chosen mantra. Ultimately that sort of mindless piety will prove to be our undoing. In the short run AND the long, IMNSHO...

Oh and BTW, we normally get a newby posting a mild reproof such as yours (chiding the denizens of the Cafe for their lack of forgiveness) about once a month. I don't know as if you thought so, but you're not breaking any new ground here...

Indeed the true believers often seem to me to be hellbent on ignoring the obvious when it comes to textual research, i.e. - maybe it IS just a lot of superstitious blather, written and promoted by an ignorant and fearful group of people who lived in a REALLY unenlightened period of history...

I just watched a few minutes of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". Funny, a movie that I always thoroughly enjoyed has taken on a rather somber tone. Here's beautiful, youthful Katherine Ross riding on the handle bars of a still youthful Paul Newman's bicycle, while B.J. Thomas sings a wistful song. Now Katherine is a decidely old lady, Newman has passed away and B.J. is left to singing icky, drippy, dogma-laden numbers to a dwindling audience of Ol' time Religion adherents (last I'd heard, anyway). I couldn't watch too much of the film. Now that Butch and Sundance's fate is known (at least their fate in the movie) - as are the lives of the real-life actors - it's just too hard to watch. Sort of a metaphor for real life, I guess. The inevitable end that we all must face puts a pall over all of life as one ages, doesn't it? It does for me, anyway. That and the inescapable reality that we're past - or at least passing - our prime. We no longer count for much - if we ever did at all. We're not the "get things done" sorta energetic kids we once were, and when it comes to opportunities, well, we've had our chance, for the most part. It's fast becoming another generation's turn. The adventures, the challenges, the carousing, the sex, the gambles, it's all stuff we reminisce about now, and regale the guys at the coffee shops with. But it's somebody else's turn to do the actually doing now. That's really depressing. As is the rather chilling epiphany that - when I DID have the chance - I didn't do it right. Regret is a muthaf#$ker...

Anyway, that's it. I have no idea what your motivations really are. Your initial introduction just seriously rubbed me the wrong way, and - as can be seen from some other responses - I'm not alone in that...

I've also wondered at where one draws the line between offering "help" and simply trolling for clients (marks?). One might think that procuring customers in such a manner is - at best - a conflict of interest, and possibly well nigh unethical. One might think that...

Maybe something along this line? http://www.stanisick.com/collectables/paper/death.jpg

This is for DMiller, if he stops by this way: Sorta a Japanese "Dueling Banjos", way too cool... Then there's this one with one of the same shamisen players (if my reading is correct, his name is Honsho (something) ichi) but this time teamed up with a taiko (drum) player. All traditional instruments, but with a few modern refinements (placement of the drums, and electronic amplification). Again, just too cool. I love this stuff...

Religion, superstition, unfounded beliefs, anytime we abandon reason and embrace notions that cannot be proven or corroborated, we start playing a dicey game. One that often ends up with less than wonderful results. Religion will be the death of us all...

I was in school, in the 6th grade, when the announcement came over the P.A. I don't think the gravity of the situation really struck me like it should have. Took awhile... I still think that picture of John-John saluting his father's coffin is the sadest photo I've ever seen

I guess marriage is a great thing if it works. But divorce is so gut-wrenching awful, and can be forced on you whether you want it or not, that I doubt I'd ever try tying the knot again. There's just too much at risk. You don't realize it the first time around, but that divorce is a real eye-opener. And how many times can you vow "Till death do us part" with a straight face? Some lessons you just don't choose to repeat...

Daimler-Chrysler? Uh, I thought that was history? Didn't the Germans sell the Chrysler Division to another conglomerate that is now tryiing desperately to sell it as well? I USED to like Chrysler, back in the day. But I haven't seen much of anything from them to get excited about in the last 30 years or so. And their "fit and finish" has ALWAYS been abysmal, just awful... I have to agree wholeheartedly about the Land Rover. Good Lord, what an expensive P.O.S. Of course the English have always had a difficult time understanding basic automotive engineering. I had 3 Austin-Healeys in the '60s. The worst cars I ever loved. So much fun to drive - or just BE in - but they broke down incessantly...

Gawd, has there ever been a "big" news story that DIDN'T have a gazillion cornspiracies spun around it? As a former cult member and a former Kennedy Assassination conspiracy enthusuiast, I've come to the conclusion that the conspiracy stories are FAR more suspect than the actual one. If it sounds too fantastic, too earth-shattering, too unbelievable to be true, it MOST likely is bollchit. Mentally diseased people (i.e. Wierwille, Jones, Koresh, Dahmer, etc.) can and do commit heinous acts. But to get NUMEROUS otherwise normal everyday folks to participate in a huge conspiracy - and then KEEP the secret, is just too far outside of the actions human behavior would otherwise dictate...

I used to get a lot more worked up about geneology than I do now. Once I figured out that - once one gets beyond two or three generations - those people have only the tiniest of contribution to your life , genetically or any other way. Yeah, they may be your great, great, great grandparent, but they are to about 3 or 4 THOUSAND other folks too. People are always so keen on tracing their ancestry back to the founding fathers or the Mayflower or maybe some royalty somewhere. But they usually disregard the hordes of horse theives, prostitutes, and nose-pickers that abound in every family tree as well (and in far greater numbers)...

Several years ago I did a little research on an ancestor of mine - he's a uncle or cousin, many generations removed - named Marmaduke Foster (or possibly "Forster"). There's a great site online called "Sons of Veterans of the Civil War" or somesuch. Anyway, somebody on that site did the digging for me and sent me a short service record of sorts for Marmaduke (is that a great name 'er what?). He had fought with the New York Volunteers, earned a little rank, and died of wounds at Gettysburg. He'd never married, and died very young (at 23 IIRC). I also had a great-grandfather (a Dr. Miller) who - though nobody knows anything about his war record now - was buried in a Civil War officer's uniform. Too bad records are so sparse, and with a name as common as "Miller", I think it would be nigh unto impossible to track down now. Here's the site I used http://www.suvcw.org/

And it occurs to me that the only real defense one has against such aberrations is REASON, (something that religion is somewhat reluctant to encourage)...

Yea, and though I do verily find the Wierwillian model to be sorely lacking in credibility, dost not the entire Bible reek of superstition, hearsay, and incomprehensible blather? True Buhleevers, after awhile, don't you ever get that feeling that you're trying to decide which brand of Snake Oil is the REAL one? Uh un...

HEY! You're not supposed to check the facts! Just sit and nod - and maybe mumble "That's SOOO right!" softly so the entire audience (herd?) can reaffirm with you...

Gosh, so far this week I've won 2 or 3 lotteries a day, all of them worth a million or so English Pounds Sterling. Anybody else experiencing such an amazing run of luck? (I assume all I have to do to claim the prize is give them my bank account numbers and passcodes so they can transfer all that money IN, right?)

Take heart M-star, you could have "The Mariners" for a hometown team <_<