Galen

vickles- "Galen, . . . I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond so I take it that you didn't read a lot of his posts." Though I am retired, and I post here at various times of the day, I am also busy doing various other things; so occasionally I do go numerous hours without being on-line, sometimes even a whole day at a time. Mike and I have spoken privately on occasions. I respect him a great deal. I have read much of what he has written here on Greasespot Cafe, so? You are right that I have not argued against Mike's writings much. Hmm, does that mean that I have not read them? perhaps there is another explanation? Mike experienced many of the same things that I did, but from an entirely different angle. He seems to have been much 'closer' to things going on, than I was. Much more of my knowledge of TWI was from running PFAL classes and ministering to believers. I had very few dealings with Corpse and 'leadership'. Others on G.S. were much closer to the 'leadership' and thus saw TWI from a different angle. Mike seems to have distanced himself from the 'leadership' when he saw that LCM had become 'corrupted', Mike focused on the books that VPW had written and what VPW had taught personally. Perhaps Mike has a point. Let Mike talk. "When people have been nice and asked questions he has put people down and was very rude in his words. If he found out we were olg (I think that means old leader grads?) Then he maybe would give the time a day. If you weren't an olg you weren't even worth talking to. So his messages aren't even to a lot of the gs people anyway. Just a few. I would suggest that you go back and read his posts from the beginning and maybe you can have a better understanding of whats going on here." I know how rude of Mike, when 20 people all blast him at the same time, and yet he did not focus on each one's response. Instead he picked and choise which fights he would take. Personally I would not want to knowingly face off with so many adversarys either. I did once in 1987, I spent a couple weeks being tag-teamed by de-programmers. They met well, in their own minds. But it did wear me down, I eventually I did come to doubt my own salvation. It took me many months afterwards before I was comfortable speaking the Word to anyone again. "Also, what I responded to on this thread was that I took it that mike wanted some feedback. I gave him the feedback that I felt that was true. I don't care about group thinking." Really? I could not tell.

Thomas Heller: ?Is the the new Galen, "Everytime that someone posts from their personal experiences in TWI, I learn and perhaps there is something that everyone can learn from?" ?I don't know how many times you have flatly refused to believe the testimony of so many about their experiences because _you_ werent' there? I can only presume that this was your impression, for which I apologize. I certainly did not mean to give anyone the idea that I was denying things that have happened to us. Many bad things have happened to many of us while we were in TWI. I know that I have said this many times. If you insist upon claiming that I refuse their testimonies, that is too bad. It would be mis-representing those things that I have said. ?But here comes Mike with his pharisaical doctrine and attitude, . . . That's quite a stretch, Galen - in both directions.? Again, I don?t think so. ?There is no doubt that people gang up on individuals sometimes here because it is our nature, but Mike is not one of those times. . . . ? Truly? Wow, it has certainly appeared this way to me. I have seen many threads just ranting about how Mike is messed up. ?One of the finer things about the essentially democratic nature of a public forum is that things like the above abuses get identified and, if this were truly a democratic politic, weeded out. One of the qualities of "leaders" of men in a democratic society is that they listen to the words of their children, nieces, nephews, the women in the society, and all other "lesser" segments of society - thereby making them all equal. And if they don't listen, in a democratic society they would, and ought to be, ousted from their position and disqualified from any future leadership.? Okay, and your point being? Other than the fact that neither one of us lives within a Democracy, but rather a Republic. ?Mike has a valid point-of-view, as does everyone who lived through TWI? As do you. ?Ha, this is a fallacious joke, no? Go back to TWI, give them more money, allow them to con you some more - this will put more validity into your perspective. Well, maybe I'm being too harsh here. Many feel like they experienced good in TWI - that's fine.? I don?t see where allowing everyone to share from their experiences, is likened to going back to TWI. ?But your point of view is NOT valid because you've experienced something. The victim in an intrigue experiences something, but he/she is the one most in the dark about what is going on. The point of view of the perpetrators of the crime is more valid. And it was WIERWILLE who said that it is not true because you experience it. This question of validity was, as a matter of fact, discussed in detail on Mike's threads - but apparently you weren't listening - so here we go again? And I should welcome this?? I don?t care whether you welcome him or not. I do.

We are working now on making a set of 'flip-charts' to go along with PFAL. So many of them on the video are blurred and are difficult to focus on.

Does anyone watch 'West Wing'? In one episode a speech-writer (Josh Lyman?) is drawn to to goings-on of a discussion board, he goes on-line to correct people's impressions of both: his stance on various topics, as well as his position. Suddenly the thread activity jumps alarmingly. What had been the rantings of perhaps a few posters, suddenly jumped to dozens, as they all unified to 'roast' Josh. What had been debating (back and forth presenting of multiple sides of an issue)turned to slamming and flaming this one (everyone unified to defame Josh). Greasespot discussions have a similarity to the one on 'WestWing'. Mike has a valid point-of-view, as does everyone who lived through TWI. In a more perfect world, we could each post our thoughts and observations freely on each and every topic. Some of the posting here does mimic chicken-coop activity, everyone ganging up on a single member to rip that member to shreds. I agree with many of the things that Mike posts, other ideas were things that perhaps I was not aware of, since I kept myself distanced from the gossiping and tattling that so many seemed to enjoy wihtin TWI. Everytime that someone posts from their personal experiences in TWI, I learn and perhaps there is something that everyone can learn from. I was not Stateside for Waydale (so I missed that board), but I started posting here on the previous version of Greasespot Cafe. I observed that each time I questioned the 'need' for de-programming, I was jumped on. Each time that I mentioned my beleifs in a singular Deity, the same phenomenon occured. I understand that it happens, and I understand that it is within our nature. I still would like to imagine that some of us are mature enough, not to jump on a guy for posting what he beleives and what he is studying. Obviously I delude myself (thinking that mankind is better than chickens). :=)

My children are certainly becoming familiar with PFAL content. I dont see anything wrong with that, rather something good.

I did college courses while underwater, while doing twigs. I got out of the Navy and went to college, living on the Veitnam Era G.I. Bill. When my G. I. Bill ran out, I went back into the Navy and I still took more college courses while underwater. Pretty much 'in' TWI the whole time. I got a M.A. in Theology, B.S. in Computer Science, minoring in Horticulture. A number of times at the annual 'limb' Meetings (Corpse Recruitment Drives) I have been approached by some corpse person that I did not know. They would usually tell me that God's plan in my life was to go Corpse, and they would usually ask my why I had been denying God's desire in my life. I usually responded: "VPW taught us in PFAL that G-d must talk to me first if he wants to tell me something, then secondly G-d would talk to beleivers in my fellowship and my immediate leadership. VPW told us what to think of anyone else who heard 'little birdies' telling them otherwise. So why do you think that YOU would be the first to 'hear' such a thing from God." No individual repeated that confrontation.

Metastic&ocular: "PFAL=THE WAY TO HELL" Hmm, that is not very nice. :=)

Dot Matrix: "Or are we seeing them?" "I am seeing them, being blessed by them and loving it." "I am just trying to figure out if you are "blaming" people for being in a postion of needing a miracle?" I wonder if we are all just: 1) the glass is half-full people, or 2) the glass is half-empty people. To me when I am thristy the glass is full, when I am done the glass is empty and I put it away. I watched a documentary recently about 'luck'. A university had studied 'lucky' people and 'un-lucky' people. After long questionaires and interviews with hundreds of people. They found that EVERYONE has roughly the same level of 'good' things happen to them as 'bad'. Some people consider themselves as 'lucky' so they hardly even remembered the broken bones, devorces, bankruptcys, and cancers; they focused and lived within good times. While the 'un-lucky' people focused soley on the 'bad' things so they never noticed the 'good' things as they happened. Bonnie calls it making lemonade out of lemons. We dont allow our children to talk about 'lemons' unless they follow up with the 'lemonade'. I think perhaps when we were reading about miracles, and reciting how and when they happened; we were focusing on them, and training ourselves to see and notice them. Other people in denial of G-d's power and grace, insist that nothing good happened and no body ever operated spiritual power; focusing soley on how leadership when given absolute power became corrupted, like they had never heard of that one before.

Our German Shepherd bitch is called: 'Ginger' she is black, brown and ginger coloured. We have 2 beehives with 5,000 - 8,000 bees in each colony, though we have not named any of them. My daughter had a cat named socks. (She just leaned over my shoulder and typed that last).

I have some of the colaterals. What were you interested in knowing? I beleive that a few of us here still have and stillread them. I think that Mike does as well. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

I still SIT everyday, in various languages. We Prophecy or Interpret occasionally. Concerning WK, WW, DS; I get 'hunches', 'feelings', 'creepies', every now and again. I used to drive a full-dress bike coast-to-coast each time I surfaced, just to un-wind, and during those runs, I would sometimes 'see' obstructions in the roadway ahead of me in time to change lanes. Once I was going West on I-20, trying to get through Arizona and into California before the sun rose. So it was 2am, my throttle was jammed full open with a hose clamp, and I had my feet on the handle-bars, when the front tire blew-out. I had only been doing 85, but it took a long ways for me to get it stopped. Anyway I was wearing leathers, and I knew I had passed Kingman a few miles back, so I started hiking back Eastward toward Kingman to find a replacement front tire. Well the sun rose and it got hot. Did I mention I was wearing leathers? and it was dessert? But there was no traffic, so I walked, and it got hotter. Thinking back now it seems dumb, but I was picturing in my mind white pants and how cool they would be, rather than these leather pants. And I was SIT'ing, and thinking they would really be cool if I had white cotton pants. Now I know this sounds like I was torturing myself, but that was what I was thinking about while I was SIT'ing and walking across that stinking hot dessert back toward Kingman. Did I say it was HOT and dry? That was when I saw a pair of white corduroy pants, FOLDED, laying on the road side. Nobody drove by while I stripped down and changed into them. They were worn and broken in and thread bare in a few places, and there was a patch of dried concrete on one hem. But I was happy, and thanking G-d, and the rest of the trip was short. Kingman had no bike shops, so I had to order a tire and tube sent via greyhound from Las Vegas, so it took another day, but I did not care and I told everyone. Much later when I married, my bride never did like those 'ugly' pants, and she threw them away, once while I was under, but that was okay. What still gets me was that they were folded. I have seen believers shut down systems on submarines, because they did not 'feel' right. Later to find, during maintenance that the systems were ready to explode. But that the sailor had shut it down in time. After my wedding, I was doing the husbandly things and started to do a tune-up on my wonderful new wife's car. She knew nothing about cars, and had always asked G-d to 'fix' it for her. Well this Datsun 'honey bee' had ran for years without maintenance, so I got started. To find that the Distributor rotor had arced itself down to a nub, the arm that swings around and makes contact with the posts, was missing at least 3/4 inch. It could not make contact with any post. But she had driven it for years. It could not have be driven, but she had. In the summer of 2000, I was stationed in Naples Italy, working as a Military Police Watch-Commander. I had a section of 40 MPs working for me, doing shift-work. We were responsible for a jurisdictional area of approx 500 square miles. We responded to traffic accidents, burglaries, rapes and shootings. The Naples area has a multi-national force of over ten thousand, and the US Navy 'hosts' (provides facilities and services for them). My section was doing nights, so we worked from 1700 (5pm) till 0600 (6am). It had been my manner that I required each patrol car to meet at 2400 (midnight) for capochino and to verify that everyone was alert. We had been meeting at "Trattoria Cafe Bar" for a couple months. The other sections did not meet anywhere, and I had started getting some grief from my superiors, about it. But I had reasoned that by paying attention to the troops, I was keeping down our own traffic accidents and repair costs (it is decidedly against Naval policy to care about subordinates). Because I had explained it in fiscal terms, I was allowed to continue to hold these meetings. One evening, it was on my heart that we had been holding these meets at the same place for a long time, and we should change to another place. As the shift approached I got more and more un-settled about continuing to use Trattoria, and I became more convinced that we should change the place, so at the beginning of the shift I announced that we would meet as usual but then we would leave and I would show everyone a different place. At this point I already had a new place in mind. That night at 'Trattoria Cafe Bar', I had a quick capochino waiting for all my patrol cars to arrive. One of my MPs was an 18 year old kid, who was nervous over a cute blond Albanian girl that was working the bar. I kidded him about asking her out, but he did not have the nerve to. So I told Guido the barman that one of my Militare Policia was interested in the new barmaid, he offered her to me for $1US. (fortunately she was just an employee, which I could refuse politely. When an Italian offers his wife, mother, sister, or daughter, they get very upset when you try to refuse the offer, thus the word -vendetta.) When all my Policia arrived, I met them in the parking lot, and told them where the new place was over in Guigliano, and to follow me and I would show them how to get to it. As we pulled out onto the road, the Trattoria Cafe Bar blew-up. None of my officers were hurt, but the building was a complete loss with everyone in it. (it was destroyed by a neighboring Camora family) Now I did not know what was going to happen, but I knew to get my guys out of there. I did not know enough information to save those people that were working in the bar, neither the barman Guido, nor either of the two girls ( a blond Albanian, and a dyed-brunette Pole slave girl ). So not everyone was saved, but the people that I was responsible for, were saved. I know that had I not been 'listening' we would have lost American lives that night. From that incident, many of my MPs did remark at how there were often 'coincidences' around me, which I explained were because of G-d. Being only a 'created being' I certainly do not understand the Creator. Nor do I understand his motives. I am however very thankful, when He does things for me, shows me things, helps me. Actually, when it happened to me in Naples, I had not been praying or fellowshipping much, and was kind of floating for a while. I was entirely surprized by it and it kind of got my attention, again to get back into studying the Bible. The various things that would occur, that seemed to be a constant flow of coincidences. You were thinking about someone when they called. You thought of cooking an extra big dinner (for leftovers), when extra people came over at dinner time. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

I dont see where you were wrong. You did well. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

JustThinking: "My wife and I were married by a TWI minister. I don't remember any teachings over almost 20 years that it was reserved for Corps. The recommendation back when was to wait until you were an AC grad but it wasn't a requirement. Did that change later?" To our experience in 1982, we were told that non-corpse should never be married and it was okay for clergy to lead them on in the mean time in the hopes that someday they could be married within TWI. Steve Strezpec (here after known as "L.S.S." lying sack of s*h*i*t) seemed very upset that we had exposed his lying to the couples that he had been mis-leading in this way. In California 1984-87, we were again performing weddings for beleivers in an area where there was no TWI clergy, and some corpse told us that it was probably okay but to keep it low profile. In Connecticut in 1990-92, the limb had no TWI clergy so we were performing weddings and the Limb Leader was cool with it. He even loaned me a video by LCM teaching how to perform them the TWI way. Then in 1993 we got a different Limb Leader, he blew a gasket at the idea that a non-TWI clergy was doig weddings of TWI followers. He insisted that I was insulting TWI clergy by doing the weddings myself (even though the limb had no TWI clergy). He was also upset that these weddings were happening for non-corpse couples. They would have rathered that the weddings were done by a Justice of the Peace. In Washington in 1993-1997, I performed weddings as needed. Though by then we had learned to keep what was happening within the twig, far away from the occasional corpse visit. Things in the Twig went much better so long as corpse-nazis did not know about it. To our observation there was not complete argeement among the corpse.

For anyone who is interested in this topic, I heartily recommend that you look over WWW.DRDINO.COM We have some of their videos, wow. We really like them. This guy will travel to colleges and he does public debates. He seems to be very well informed and he spent a carrer as a public high school geology teacher, before he recieved his calling. His videos cover many issues surrounding our changing earth, vanishing species, evolution, the seperation of church and state within the public schools. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

Rafael 1969: "I think it's one thing to say that God designed marriage and, as such, marriage in theory should work best for those who are closest to God." "It's quite another thing to say marriage is only for God's people, not for anyone else. Even in the Genesis account, Cain took a wife. God did not seem to discourage this activity." True. The Bible talks about marriage so much and defines family context as set within marriage that it is fairly obvious that such is the design for humans. Bonnie in our wedding wanted to use the phrase from Ruth 1:16 "Entreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: 17 Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me" Even though Ruth was saying it to her mother-in-law, it is still the closest thing to a marriage vow as found in the Bible. It is rather humourous that the same book (Ruth) contains the only marriage ceremony found anywhere in the Bible (Boaz and Ruth). From that ceremony is the tradition found concerning the Groom's canopy, or skirt being spread over the bride's head while she makes her pledge. Many people dont realize where the Jewish tradition comes from, but from that point on such a 'covering' as referred to many times, even in the New Testament. I was confronted a few times by corpse-nazis on this issue (S. Strezpec being the most spectacular in 1982). Most times they were insistant that marriage is only reserved for mature-fully-instructed-corpse. It is not for an average beleiver, and certainly not for an un-beleiver. Though even on this issue there was not complete argeement among the corpse. Our twig once did an exhaustive word-study on: marriage, family, husbands, wives, sons, and daughters. We wrote it into an essay and published it about. I still have it around.

I kind of like CES/STFI (yes, the new name is weird). I heard John Scheinheit explaining it at a thing in Mass a month ago and it made sense. As to tithing: When I was a teen I was pestered and humilitated into tithing as a Baptist. The Methodists do it. The Catholics do it. The Mormons (LDS) do it. It is time to get over it. Unless somehow someone came up with some new way, to enforce the tithing, it has all been done before. If anything CES/STFI has gone far out of their way, to avoid stepping on anyone's toes. Allowing everyone to teach, and allowing even differing doctrines to be taught. All to prove that no body is building an empire. Their treatment of a devorced clergy when he attempted to re-marry, is proof alone that they are far overly-sensative to the possibility of clergy mis-conduct. They are seeking a much 'higher' moral plain, as far as ministrys go. Even now they require any fellowship leader to submit a signed statement about your personal conduct and the conduct within your fellowship. Just to ensure that all household fellowships, are honest, without greed and without lechery. They are trying for a 'higher' code of conduct among their fellowships, and they should be given the respect that such effort deserves. My eldest son has gone to a couple of their teen functions, and he has loved it. He is now going into the Army, so he will not be attending any more of the teen functions. Which saddens him.

Is this something that you need to see a doctor for? There are white puss discharges, and redish discharges, etc. 'Generally' I would think that most discharges need medical attention. :=) I sent you a private message explaining military discharges. Please dont take offense at my above joking. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

Life moves on. There were those who were idiots, abusive and pointed, demanding and unforgiving. That was years ago. Only a very few of them can still be remembered clearly in my thoughts. Only a couple really managed to .... me off, and still remain in my thoughts. I wish to forgive them. I would not trust them again, however. But I think the ones that truly hurt me, I do desire to forgive.

Watered Garden- Here am I. Is this something 'private'? or something perhaps that would be of interest to everyone? I have few secrets. (Obviously things said to me in confidence, and things dealing with National security. . . . ) here am I.

I spam that I have been getting has only gotten worse and worse. About 2 weeks ago, I loaded 'SpamPal'. It took some time to load and customize, I think that only a geek should attempt it. However I have found that it works well. There are various groups that try to keep up-to-date on spam and they make 'filters'. With SpamPal you can select which of these filters you want to try. Good luck

I was kicked out multiple times. Being non-corpse TWI did not really maintain any listing of non-corpse to be able to keep track of us. In 1981 or so, in Connecticut, I was in a 'self-supporting' Twig, that needed a wedding to be performed. The Limb Coordinator (Steve Strezpec) was ordained and had been telling the couple that he would marry them, but he kept puching it out month after month. Finally we confronted him, and he confessed that he had been lying to the couple and had no intention of marrying any couple that was not Way-Corpse-Grads. So I performed the wedding. The following week S.S. came to our fellowship and declared that I was following my spiritual father the adversary and gave me the 'boot'. Being military, I soon transfered to Virginia and got active there. The couple is still together in Washington State. I ran classes in California and in Scotland, then . . . In 1993, in Connecticut (again), I was running a twig and again needed a wedding performed. The Limb Coordinator (non-ordained), said that twigs should be self-supporting and he even loaned me a The-Way tape wherein LCM teaches how to perform a wedding. I did this wedding. The following month we got a different corpse-couple as Limb Leaders, and they wigged out that I had been performing weddings, and threw me out. I transfered to Washington. I ran classes and then . . . In 1997, in Washington state, I paid a beleiver to paint my house while I went on vacation, during which he searched my house and found books that had been written by Rev. Cummins. I was yelled at for having 'forbidden' writings, and told to burn our library. We refused to burn books, so we were thrown out. I transfered to Italy and ran classes. This past return stateside, we have not contacted any local TWI fellowships. So I guess that means that we are 'out'. And we run classes. . .

Chwester- ?Good post, Galen? Skeptical Texan- ?I don't think that you could beat what you wrote for a succinct, objective description of TWI.? Thank you gentlemen.

We were involved with a religous group wherein we ran Bible-studys in our home. We occasionally attended seminary courses, and clergy were almost non-existant. We did out-reach programs on college campuses, military bases, and in prisons. We were Non-Denominational Pentacostal Biblical-Fundamentalist Unitarians. As many organizations tend to evolve into hardened control freaks, so did The Way Ministry, and some of the upper leadership became egomaniacs. Most of the middle-management became 'yes' men and willingly went along with it all. Most of their basic doctrine are things that we still beleive in. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

Ever think about doves? When we were in Washington State, we replace all the ground floor windows with big 'bay windows' that stuck out from the building about a foot and a half. They brought much more light into the rooms and made it 'feel' like a much bigger building. In one of those bay-windows in the living room we put 2 white doves. I used a couple sheets of white lace to make curtains, and I loaded the bottom hem with lots of lead fishing weights (to keep the curtains taut). They held the doves in the bay window, and provided us with good view. The building was on a busy intersection (2 four lane streets intersected with a street light), among the local 4-H we often received complements. Apparently while families were stopped waiting for a green light, children would often spot the doves in our window. Sometimes we would look out and even see pedestrians on the sidewlak, who had stopped and were watching those doves. That window was probably 8 feet across, 5 feet tall and 18 inches deep. It also filled the room with their cooing. I got used to it, but when we spoke on our telephone, people would usually ask why their heard birds. At the time, our eldest son was raising rabbits with 4-H and he made a good business from selling them. Our second son took care of the doves as his 4-H project. We were never successful at brooding any chicks to maturity. But we did have fun with the project as it was. I would reccommend doves to anyone, as my family and freinds enjoyed them. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller

Since my first PC computer in 1987, I have fought virii and trojans and worms, oh my. I finally decided that paying McAfee $30 each year, every year, is worth it. I hate spending money. I try to watch my expenses. But this one just made sense to me (after years of scanning once, then a month later re-installing a system). This current year's version is a little 'buggy' but I trust that next year it will be back on the 'top' again. Hundreds of virus 'jars' located through-out the internet, the first to isolate and reverse-engineer a new virus, it makes sense that their database should be ahead of others. Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus. Galen ET1 SS - USN Retired, Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine. and 'University of Life' Alumni "I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller