def59

Chuck Now you want to judge me for the way I vote?

Hey I used to live in GR. Were you in while there? I got out in 89.

I remember living with my BC and getting the boot anytime anyone else came for a week or weekend. That's about the time I left TWI. Never went back!

I believe when Jesus said the part about lusting in one's heart, he meant it. It's not spiritual, it's literal. hence all those commands to flee sexual immorality!

Mike We can't go toe-to-toe all the time. Everybody needs a good weekend. I really mean it. Def

Hi Mike Hope you have a good weekend. Def

YOU DEF are guilty of rank IDOLATRY!!!!! Jesus was not speaking of himself personally, but rather he was speaking in the personification of the Word of God, the same one that says that as all die in Adam, so shall all be made alive in Christ (something you don't agree with, I know). The words "for I am the Word of God" at the end of that sentence should be understood. Which sentence are you speaking of, I have John 14 posted here You are more hung up on the messenger than you are the message. You swear by the son of Mary and Joseph and NOT by the Son of God. Hello? What planet are you from anyway? Jesus is the son of God. Or don't you believe that either? Which is greater, the son of Mary and Joseph, or the Son of God which sanctified him? In this chapter we see that Jesus' father is God, not Joseph. Even unitarians will concede that point. I'm quite sure that nobody is going to live in paradise apart from Christ. Is this what the fuss is all about? Why do you waste your time with such childish disputes? But the Bible doesn't teach that. It teaches some will be sent away by Jesus himself. But you don't believe the Bible is authentic do you? You believe it is B.S., well, if it is, how can you quote any part of it for your doctrine? From the NIV John 14 1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.” Jesus the Way to the Father 5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. It doesn't get any simpler than this. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.CK, read this this part slowly. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” 8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.Trinity alert! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit JB, this section could help you understand why the Holy Spirit is considered a Person of the Godhead. 15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever– 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” 22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. 25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. 28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

Quoting the great father of lies are we now? VPW lied to us about the Bible in so many places, it is no wonder we are suceptible to others.

Tzaia Nothing you could say about CES would suprise me. The leaders are still peddling the same basic crap we learned in twi, so the culture of lies and deceit just took on new nametag.

There was a great article in Christianity Today last year about "The Evangelical Mary" and what Protestants could do to appreciate her challenges, but not lift her up as our mediator.

Chuck Are you saying the Son of God and Jesus are two different persons? Jb Have you read the article on the Holy Spirit on http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_whohs.htm ? There are many verses that show the Spirit to be a distinct person and not just another name for the Father or an inanimate power source. Check out Charles Stanley's books on the subject. Here's another site: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

Yes, because that means the idolater is not using deordorant. :D-->

Mike Your last long post proves to me you have shut off the crtical (ability to judge for one's self) part of your brain and have succumbed to a demonic thought that somehow the same scripture that Jesus said was not to be added to or subtracted from has been altered by God through vpw. When you got mad at him, that was good. He needed to be confronted in thought and in person. We can't just accept everything he said as god-breathed. Heck, his shtick wouldn't let him do that.

it's elementary my dear Watson :D-->

Aren't you glad the Founding Fathers learned from history and did not set up a state religion nor prohibit the free exercise of any religion?

Mike I haven't heard from you a in fortnight and you respond to a post I have forgotten about. I am honored and I hope all is well. Def

Chrisitanity is INCLUSIVE in that salvation is available to everyone on the planet, but EXCLUSIVE in that it is only through Jesus Christ that one comes to be salvation. And depending on your views on lost salvation, you can come back, or if you never really left, you can have your card renewed or you can sincerely apologize and be re-admitted.

Garth, Song, You have a problem with the admission policy? Take it up with managment. You can see the rules at John 14:6; and other places that I know you know.

The problem encountered in that is who's rules? Example: (keeping with the subject) The rules in forming and supporting a trinitarian theological position involve the "logic rule" that you first form your doctrine and then use scripture to support the doctrine. We call that proof texting, but who's to say that our methodology is any more honest? Only our perception of logic. And where did we get that? From a cult, or from science, or from some other 5 senses realm, which from a trinitarian viewpoint leaves out holy spirit and tradition as a resource, and therefore disqualifies our logic. When I have the trinity discussion with people it becomes easy to attack the logic by which it was formulated. Such as: The trinity has withstood the test of time. My response? It has withstood the "test of time" because it really hasn't been put to the test. Have you seriously challenged the doctrine? And if not, then why not? If your only reason is that it has stood the test of time, then I challenge you to challenge the trinity. my .02 worth Tzaia The Trinitarian doctrine has been seriously challenged over the millenia, it just keeps winning out. Check your history again and see where it came from.

It is not a question of happiness. And if God is going to forcibly transform people, why didn't he do it when Adam sinned? Or after Christ died and rose again? Why did the church have to suffer when God was going to forcibly change Nero's heart anyway. I think that is a flaw in your argument. When I say lake of fire I mean lake of fire, I don't mean the grave. Yes Christ went into the grave, but not the lake. That is reserved for satan and his angels. That is also why I believe the Bible when it says snatch people from the fire because this is a fire designed for angelic beings, not humans. So when humans go there, it will be a most unpleasant experience. That is why I believe you are listening to the father of lies when you believe all will be in paradise eventually. The new Agers believe that for pete's sake. There is no biblical argument for purgatory. The whole idea suggests Christ's sacrifice isn't enough. But it is and it offered to ALL mankind to accept. So there's a choice. Accept or not accept. And there are consequences for not accepting. God judges by the heart and there will be millions who will be in heaven (I am speaking from my heart). But if all will see some sort of paradise, then all the warnings, admonitions and urgings to walk upright, lean on the lord and persevere are pointless. Don't you see? This universal doctrine plays nice to secular ears, but Christianity is an EXCLUSIVE faith (John 14:6) If you don't accept Jesus as Lord then there is a consequence.

What is momentus and what did JAL step down from?

Ok Galen, you got me on those verses. I guess I was recalling 7:1-9 and 12-ff where it is Paul talking and not God. Malachi does say that God hates divorce.

This passage of scripture must be understood in several lights. 1. Paul says in this chapter that these are his words, not the Lord's. 2. The church in Corinth was filled with sin and needed some sharp correction. 3. Not everything in the epistles is written to all, often we have to seek the principles in the passage and glean life application from there. Hope this helps a little.

Chuck, I believe God is big enough, I just don't agree with your conclusion that He will save everyone and for me that does not make the Bible fall apart, in fact it strengthens it. Read Deut. 6-7 and see how God judges the nations. See why he picks who he will favor and why others do not measure up. I think you want so desperately for God to fit into your way of thinking that when anyone else comes along with a different point of view, you lash out in anger at them. You are just as guilty of being an angry preacher as the fire-and-brimstone crowd you say turned you off so many years ago.

Which would be worse for non-Christians to suffer temporary torment and then be forced to bend the knee and then spend eternity with a God you have lived your life denying and rebelling against or to be separated from Him for eternity knowing that's how you lived life here?