def59

Actually def, the opposite it true, the damnation of any person disgraces the sacrifice of Christ. And if Christ didn't die for them, maybe he didn't die for you either. I agree he died for all mankind. I just cannot find it in scripture where everybody gets in the door. Jesus says narrow is the path to heaven, but wide is the path to destruction. Who told you God cannot be mocked?? Of course he can be mocked. But that's not the topic here. CKanpp, here's where I got it from. Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Sin will be found out. As far as judging God in human terms, I think you did just that def. It's man who wants to send his enemies to hell believe it or not, _NOT GOD!!!!_ Again, you miss my point. I believe God wants ALL men to be saved, but we know not everyone will believe. People reject God all the time. Did not Jesus say he would confess before the father those who confessed him in public. And is not the opposite true? Def, did you know we are all _EQUALLY GUILTY????_. Therefore why should _YOU_ be saved, and not Hitler? Hitler killed 6,000,000 Jews. It it weren't for God's grace, _YOU_ might want to kill 100,000,000,000 people, who knows??? Don't take this personally def, I speak for all of us. :)--> No argument here CKnapp. God's grace is unfathomable to us.I have done nothing to deserve it and never will on my own. I believe it is possible for anyone to turn to God while they are alive here — so even Hitler could have believed at the end. I heard Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer did. But if people die in their sins, that's it. And if there is no punishment for unbelief, why should any of us want to serve God anyway? If we are going to go heaven anyway, why believe, love, live right or treat people nice? It seems to me this doctrine comes from a dark place. It seems to make sense in this age of tolerance, but something doesn't sound right. If those people are not saved, then why would they bow their knees and confess the Lord Jesus? Are they being _FORCED_ to do it??? _HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO FREE WILL???????_ :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> People who rejected God here, will see him for who he is at the white throne. But I believe it will be too late. That is why I want people to come to know God now. There might not be a second chance.

Heaven was is and will be Some believe today's heaven is not the same as the one after the end of the world. Satan can come now, he won't then.

congrats

Three words. Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler.

If you believe Geer's words and vpw's last teaching tape, the relationship had soured beyond repair as lcm and the board had shoved the master off the stage and ignored him. Apparently vpw told lcm to not appear in AOS, but loyboy wouldn't listen.

Doesn't she already stick her head where it shouldn't be going now anyway?

can anyone play?

Art Bell is to talk radio and serious science what the WWE and BCS are to legitimate sports.

Which artie are you talking about song? Arti-os Arti-chokes Arte Johnson Art Bell Liberty Bell Liberty Valant Prince Vailant The artist formerly known as Prince and is again

Actually Lindy you should be concerned about where you are an in what relation that is to God. Are you close or far away and why? Those are the real questions. Answer those first.

Give me a Grolsch or Dos Equis Best american beer was the Stroh's Signature St. Pauli Girl was nice. Heniken, Becks are overrated and Bud and Miller are glorified water. This is based on memory of a life more than 13 years ago, so don't take my words too seriously.

Always the poet, eh Song?

Mine was not make any resolutions. Oh, darn it. -->

Are you familiar with Robert VanKampen's works?

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All this talk about dealing with anger makes me so mad ………… :o-->

here's an article I found By RICHARD N. OSTLING AP Religion Writer Addressing head-on the hottest public issue shaped by the Bible, two-thirds of 21 million voters supported constitutional amendments against same-sex marriage, in 11 states ranging from freewheeling Oregon to straight-laced Utah. Eight of these measures also barred legalized civil unions. Six states previously took similar stands and conservatives are now plotting campaigns in nine additional states. In nationwide exit polling, 25 percent of voters backed gay marriage (but 77 percent of Kerry voters), 35 percent accepted civil unions and 37 percent (70 percent of Bush voters) opposed all legal recognition. The traditional biblical belief was skewered just before Election Day by New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, who said “it’s presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on their side.” Backing Kristof, the Web page of New York University’s Center for Religion and Media said the “anti-gay position” held by most religious leaders is a “misinterpretation. Or more simply wrong,” because they are “cherry picking select passages from scripture.” (Presumably that includes Muslims who cite the Quran’s condemnations.) Then Pittsburgh Theological Seminary’s Robert Gagnon, author of the conservative magnum opus “The Bible and Homosexual Practice,” used his Web page to answer Kristof. Sample items from their colloquy: —How can believers uphold the homosexual law (Leviticus 18:22) but ignore other Old Testament commands? Kristof: “Homosexuality never made the Top 10” among biblical commandments, so it’s as trivial as “wearing a polyester-and-cotton shirt” (Leviticus 19:19). Gagnon: Kristof’s “extraordinary lack of” sensitivity in Bible interpretation ignores that ritual fabric rules carried minor penalties, whereas Leviticus treats homosexual acts, adultery, incest and bestiality together as “first-tier sexual offenses.” —Was Leviticus limited? Kristof: Some scholars say this law condemned only one practice, not all gay eroticism. Gagnon: By that logic, the Bible allows “erotic kissing and fondling of one’s mother.” —What did Jesus believe? Kristof: “Jesus never said a word about gays” and anyway, conservatives are inconsistent because they ignore Jesus’ teaching of “self-castration” (Matthew 19:12). Gagnon: The first point is “historically preposterous.” Silence doesn’t equal approval. Jesus didn’t address universally held Jewish beliefs unless he opposed them, and he advocated Old Testament morality and heterosexual monogamy. Matthew 19:12 isn’t literal but refers to voluntary celibacy, as everyone knows. —And Paul? Kristof: “Do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver?” If so, women must wear veils and long hair (1 Corinthians 11:5-6). Gagnon: Whatever those Corinthian worship rules meant, they weren’t serious moral matters like incest or homosexual acts, which risk “possible exclusion from the kingdom of God,” according to the Bible. —What about lesbians? Kristof: “The Bible has no unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex” (he said the same in a previous column). Maybe Romans 1:26-27 opposed only relations during menstruation or female aggression. Gagnon: Please. Read that text again, without preconceptions. —What was Sodom’s sin (Genesis 19:4-8)? Kristof: The Bible criticizes Sodom’s lack of hospitality, not homosexuality, and teaches that “the holy thing to do is offer up your virgin daughters” if a mob attacks. Gagnon: Later Bible passages (Ezekiel 16:49-50, Jude 7, 2 Peter 2:6-10) and ancient Jewish and Christian interpreters indicate Sodom’s misdeeds included homosexual acts. The Bible implicitly criticizes Lot for offering his daughters. —Did the Old Testament approve gay sex elsewhere? Kristof: It seems that David and Jonathan had a gay relationship (1 Samuel 18). Gagnon: “No reputable biblical scholar” agrees, not even liberals. Kristof simply misunderstands non-erotic male friendships in ancient cultures. Note: Kristof’s article strangely ignored the important writings from Bible scholars who take his side, much less conservatives like Gagnon. ——— On the Net: Kristof link, Gagnon response: http://www.robgagnon.net

. Personally, I find it interesting that where the verses are the clearest in condemning the act, some are the quickest to say, "Well, it doesn't mean that at all." Even in their arguements, they hang themselves. "Well it all about lust" well lust is still a sin then isn't it. So as Christians we have to be pure so no lust at all is allowed. So porn has to go and a monogamy has to rule. Ask your gay friends in a "committed relationship" how often they stray and think they are being faithful. "Well it refers to prostitution!" Then no one should frequent prostitures (gay or straight) The bible says Christians are to have no sexual immorality at all in their lives. So no living together. No pre-marital sex, no adultery, no gay sex — despite how good it might feel and despite how nice somebody might be. Here's a site to look at as well. He has written a scholarly work about all the verses relating to homosexuality and the bible Gagnon response: http://www.robgagnon.net

Universalism has a nice ring to it and appeal. But while Jesus died once for all, he also knows his sheep and not everyone is a sheep. I would like everyone to be, but God is the final judge. Salvation was once the sphere of the Jews, now it is open to all. But if everyone gets to go to heaven anyway or least live eterally, then why did Christ die in the first place? Why did Christ command us to live a certain way if, in the end, we all get some sort of eternity with him anyway? This biblical universalism sounds more like purgatory to me.

Yeah, well that's not a big loss for him. He stood up for truth and helped many people.

Tref A lot the animosity toward homosexuals would die down if they would just shut up about their sex lives. The in-your-face attitude and damn-your-views comments make it hard to see them as people. Gay Pride festivals turn out to be orgiastic in nature proclaiming all the many deviancies available to homosexuals. I don't want to know who or what you are sleeping with. I don't want schools teaching one-sided courses on gay sex, I don't want special laws protecting homosexuals at my expense. If you want to be treated equally, stop telling us how damn special you are.

Well, when you believe in afterlife and that's your goal, then getting it started with a flourish is something fun to look forward to.

Gee I don't know Abi, "thou shalt not eat of it" sounds like a command to me. I guess Moses gave the ten suggestions then?

Interesting. I believe that Christ died for all, but not all will accept Christ. Christ himself points to this when he says at the judgment, many will come touting their miracles but Christ will say "get away from me, I do not know you." Christ knows his sheep, and they hear his voice. To say all will be saved no matter what disgraces Christ's sacrifice. If I don't have to believe in Christ here, why should I live a moral life that is demanded of me in the Scriptures? God is loving, but he is also just and cannot be mocked. Too often we judge him in human terms and cannot fathom how a loving God could send anyone to hell/punishment. But because he is just and loving, full of mercy slow to wrath, he has to judge and there are consequences for unbelief. Yes every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but that is not equal to everyone being saved.