def59

So we are to shut off our brains from crtical thinking and look at ONLY what he taught? That's not research, that regurgitation. Why shouldn't I look for truth everywhere? It's easy to stick with PFAL, then you don't have to think. All the answers are tied up nicely — like a TV show. I think vpw was afraid we all would go out and really start looking at the scriptures and start coming up with different conclusions. That's why he started to the corps, to keep us all in line.

Mike Who is your lord and saviour. Who do you put your trust in? Is it vpw? Did he live a perfect sinless life? Did he die for you? Did he rise for you? How about going back to Jesus. Simply Jesus. Find your original manuscripts if you must, but go back to Jesus and listen to what he said. He never sinned, ripped anyone off, charged for his message, copied another's idea. He came in love and power. He loves you. Look for him, not some class or a book written by flawed men.

Cknapp, you asked for what I believe, then when I tell you you resort to insults and curses. You accuse me of believing in free will and of being a Calvinist. That's an oxymoron. I don't presume to judge anyone or anything. If you cared to look at my beliefs, you will note that I believe in a God who will save many millions. Why? Because He's God and I am not. He can judge better than I can. I believe He is sovereign, he is in control. Not satan, not me, not santa claus. I don't want anyone to go to hell. I don't want to go to hell. Why the insults? If your way is correct, why are you so angry over what I have to say? Am I not going to heaven based on your beliefs. You should be laughing at me, not cursing.

Ok ww, thanks for the tip. Mike I am not grabbing at straws. You were making the point about vpw bragging about one thing, when the record says otherwise. So its OK to disregard a source if you don't like them? Well I'll follow that logic and junk vpw's teachings because I don't like him. You can't have it both ways. Either he lied about his academic record to make himself look good or he didn't. The challenge is on the table, you can run but you can't hide.

Hey Mike, Acccording to http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_vcchap1-2.htm, vpw got his BA 1938, B Div in 1940 and THEN went to Princeton Theological Seminary and got his masters in 1941. The Pike's Peak doctorate didn't come until 1948. So which version is right? P.S. You realize Princeton TS is not the same school as the Ivy League college. Separate schools, similar roots. And that PTS is a trinitarian school, so vpw must have rejected his instruction, so why brag about a school you no longer agree with.

CKnapp Here's what I believe. I believe we all will live eternally. I also believe that those who reject Christ, after having had a chance to hear about him and consider him, will be sent to the lake of fire. I believe that God is just enough and loving enough to "save" as many people as possible. I believe Jesus when he talks about a place of eternal torment and gnashing of teeth. There are no second chances. I believe that God will reject those who rejected him. He says his creation is proof of his existence, so rejecting him is a choice. I believe in deathbed confessions — the thief on the cross is my example. I believe God does not tolerate sin and does not force his will on anyone. He calls us his children, what kind of good father is going to turn his children into robots. I also believe in the Bible as the Holy word of God. So if my use of Bible verses offends you, too bad. It is my rulebook for life, so how else am I to share with you why I believe as I do. I believe the Way's doctrines to be Satan-inspired and have rejected all of them. Just as Satan uses a little truth to entice, the way sounds all Christian and everything, but the bottom line is they have rejected sound instruction and went off on many tangents: Jesus, the holy spirit, the afterlife and tongues.

Your are the song that never ends. You go on and on my friend.

But which man? That would be nice to know. And what of vpw's claims to have thrown out all his texts and just listened to God? If a man taught him, then it wasn't God. And if a man teaches the master, maybe you have the wrong master.

Well, then look at it from our perspective and see how the bull rises.

Sunesis you said: I believe the only "people" thrown into the lake of fire, if one insists people will be thrown there, are nephilim - those of iron - not human. God's crown of creation, humanity, will all be saved, maybe not all at the same time period, but eventually, in different time periods, in different ways. Here's what Jesus and the NT writers had to say: All verses NIV. Matthew 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Luke 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ Hebrews 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.” [ Deut. 4:24] 2 Peter 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Revelation 8:5 and 7 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake. The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. Revelation 9:18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. Revelation 16:8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire. Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Revelation 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” I think we are talking about more than just "nephilim" here.

Why can't we accept the idea that all the Books of the Bible are written to believers for life and godliness. While some of the O.T. rules no longer apply, the principles that point toward holiness are eternal. It makes for a much less stressful walk. IMHO.

Mike You seem to have all the time to make excuses for why you don't have the time to respond. We are all busy, so don't sweat it if you can't respond promptly.

Jude law is a cool actor. I liked him in that World War II movie about the dueling sharpshooters.

yeah, that's it. Thanks, Tref

Amen. Amen. Amen.

how about sin — oh no, it's just broken fellowship. Jesus — not the defeated one, he's Christ, the exalted bad — our choices are between good and best Gospels — strictly OT.

WW I applaud you for taking the time to do this thread. I have always appreciated your ability to cut through the mustard.

I bought the tape, never saw it before, am planning to watch it this weekend.

I thougt Leo was awesome in "Catch Me" but Titanic was over the top. Give give me the guy from "the talented Mr. Ripley" (brain fade, I can't remember his name.)

Song, your rants go on forever, this is the best thread for you.

I have heard that God sent the flood to destroy the Nephilim because their evil was so great. And CKnapp, I admire your faith in God's goodness, but the Bible does talk about eternal damnation and punishment and how not everyone will go to heaven. I see nothing in Scripture that supports this position. Could you share some verses and not attacks?

Ok Mike let's keep it positive. Let's see how PFAL can deal with the core beliefs of the faith. According to PFAL, Who is God? Who is Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit. Why is there evil in the world? Why is there suffering? Explain the virgin birth. How do we know PFAL is Truth? What does PFAL say about marriage? Families? Death? Divorce? Abuse? Sin? Salvation? Healing? Tithing? Evangelism? Explain apparent contradictions? for starters

The omni attributes of God are hard to fathom. Too often we look at them with our eyes of understanding and when WE fail to grasp the concept, we call it wrong. God is greater than us — hence the title Lord, Savior, Creator, etc. So while we may struggle with comprehension, we are not free to dismiss. Would we not dispute with someone who does not understand electricity and therefore says it is not real?

It is my favorite television show but I believe Law and Order has finally jumped the shark. Sabrina, the teen-age ADA left the show Wednesday night as her character gets fired. Fine. I can accept that. Her character was lame and ineffectual, so her departure is not a loss. But her last line: "Was I fired because I am a lesbian?" Hello? What in Wolf's name is that doing there. I watch the show pretty regularly, and I never heard she was a lesbian. So why put that in there to close off her character? It was out of place and inappropriate.

blank