anotherDan

yes, dot.... that was me (((( dot )))) Love you

Dot, you may not have seen the edit in my last post. I did. Sorry for the interuption. I won't further engage Mike here.

BTW, I did hear DrW SIT and interpret. His "tongues" were a slight variation of what he does in the class, and his "interpretation" was very right-on with what he taught interpretation of tongues should be... no guidance, comforting words "from God" in the first Person, and "exhortation." We all felt very privileged and edified. I once heard LCM "correct" a "minor" leader for EVER calling on a visiting minister to prophesy or SIT/INT. This was NOT to be done, period. Mike, please don't respond. Please. Let excie have her thread back.

l.o.l.

who could not love a former broom maker? ex10, great post to Tonto/TBone

I find this doctrine strange. I don't find it strange that a man holds it; men think of all kinds of kooky things; men judge God, they rebel against God, they curse God, they "explain" God. Another thing along those lines is the expression "allows God..." It's context is often, "When we....(blahblah) it allows God to (blahblah). Honestly, I think this type of thinking is as foolish as carving a wooden god to worship. I've kept a number of things dear that I learned in the Way ministry and in the classes and programs, but one that I've thrown out is the idea that "God cannot overstep man's freedom of will." Here's another "pitiful God/ big strong man" theory: God can only speak to what He is. Mike, you feel you "must remind" us of what you believe is literally God-breathed PFAL. I first met you over thirty years ago. We've spoken extensively and fairly recently by phone, and have traded PMs this month. You know where I stand. I love you and like you, but I think you're nuts. It's not what VP Wierwille says, but what does the Word say. That's what he taught. If you revere him, why don't you hear him? Dan (He generally comes back with, "but if what VP Wierwille says is what the Word says..." ... ... ... ... ... ... whatever!)

very good George! this one's for you, waysider

Just wanted to say to Tonto that I think you captured Abi's meaning perfectly.

bulwink: Love your new avatar! Snazzy and cool! I love you man! this goofball is my son in law... married my oldest daughter. Patience! He's "poofing" into a looper machine. A musician's way of playing with himself. He adds a little more each time it loops.

He knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust

Great post, TB. I'm trying to keep in mind that the integrity of the Word is always at steak. It needs to be rightly-divided. There is a difference between a t-bone and a porterhouse. But the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder... Does God know what I posted this morning? Is God fair, or unfair? If God hardens my heart, will I refuse to believe in Him? What does God think about Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille? John Juedes? Abigail? Dr. James Kennedy? Mother Teresa? George W. Bush? Pawtucket? Enquiring minds want to know.

Wow, Larry. That place is put together well. I might even depart to go there!

I get nervous when anyone says, "We'll BBQ anything!"

I already did!

sky, thanks for the clarification!

watch out Larry, the secret is in the sauce!

I agree that discussion is healthy. The way you started this thread did seem a little incendiary, like you were picking a fight. "Hey Oakspear! Come on outta that there saloon! I want a few words with you!" But again, I agree. Discussion is healthy. If a "fight" is based on logic, the best logician wins, no matter who's right or wrong. The question is, what is this discussion based on. And I don't know and don't want to assume, because the ground rules haven't been laid. You started with a question you wanted answered yes or no, and that hasn't even been answered yet by your chosen discussionee. I would assume you have a plan with which to proceed if Oak answers yes, and if Oak answers no. Makes your options easier for your next move. An open-ended question would multiply the kinds of responses you might get, and it would be more difficult to anticipate what your next move would be. Not that I have a problem with your question, or even starting fires. Like you said, discussion is good. That is, if it's a good discussion. edit: OK, lots of posting going on here. I sometimes take a LONG time to compose a post! Worked out good. Sky... it's not gone south. It was good!

I'm digging the other contributions too. I love eating in someone else's kitchen! This is a cyber version of that! Yum! I'm gonna try it your way!

LvonB, I hope you get to know the people who greeted you, above, and I pray that you do find the closure and whatever else you need. May God bless you!

Great insight, Abi.

brilliant!

I don't feel like an outsider, Larry. Really, we who are trying to "keep the baby" while throwing out the bathwater (that's my clique, and proud of it. "You are welcome at the Clique") seem quite welcome here. Sure, those who are really intent on exposing moral and/or doctrinal shortcomings of the Way and VP may get intense, and it may seem to you that they are invalidating your experience or POV (granted, some do in fact do that!) but working it out is a very helpful side benefit to "telling the other side of the story." The title of this thread is provocative. It's what they do around here, sometimes. I don't feel like an outsider, but I do feel like a guest. My goal is not the same as GS. I happen to think that GS's goal is a worthy one, if it's done responsibly, and sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, IMO. But it's not my goal to tell "the other side of the story." It's also not my goal to sugarcoat or be in denial to the problems that existed in TWI. My goals are not incompatible with GS's, but I do feel like a guest here, and for me, I think it requires of me the courtesy one gives a host in his own home. As a fellow newbie, I've had to deal with some of the stuff you're expressing. Sometimes I've been downright offended, so I empathize. But overall, I think you'd have to agree that there are some wonderful folks around here, and some oldtimers that can teach us newbies a thing or two.

Sky, may I recommend a book to you? I found it helpful. Maybe you've already seen it. It's William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience. I'm not saying James is "right;" I'm not a Pragmatist, but he got me thinking about the subject of God/ no God in a way that helped me to respond better to people of all persuasions. Over in the "fresh air" thread, TBone shared some stuff about how atheists actually help Christians. He cited someone who called them "the loyal opposition" or something. God can be just as displeased with theists as with atheists. I myself sometime prefer an atheists company to religous folks! Depends on the atheist, of course! Best of all is when brethren dwell together in harmony.

I'm tempted to say, "There is no god but Allah, and Mohommed is his prophet," but I think my meaning might be missed. So I won't.

Hey, Sunesis, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound like that. OK, I now see that your God is bigger than Larry's, because his has limitations. I don't think I kowtow to Larry at all. I only kowtow to TBone. Larry and I are friends. I actually agree with you that he can be caustic and needling with his posts. Even obtuse, maybe... did you use that word? Maybe as an adjective... obtuse posts or something. But we get along pretty well. Why not? Life's too short, etc. He took me to task for being rather obtuse myself, and he happened to be right. I thought it was kind of humorous that you were saying in essence, "My God's bigger than yours." I didn't mean to offend you by the comment, and I see that I have. Again, sorry. I'd like to think we could be friends. Certainly, you have posted a lot of stuff that I appreciated. You've got a great heart and good insight. My interest in this thread is waning, too, and it's not because of any one in particular. I may not check back for responses, if there are any, so don't think I'm ignoring anyone. I'll be around. And WWolf, thanks. Good discussion!