penworks

No, she is not related to them. I asked her.

That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding. Cheers to Liz! Charlene

Welcome to GSC, WayKid2019. I hope you find lots of helpful info here to add to your healing journey!

Regarding your 2. In my view, loyalty to TWI is such that it very much warrants grave concern to anyone who understands what loyalty to TWI involves at this stage of its game. To still be loyal to TWI, from my viewpoint after 17 years experience of it up close, includes turning a blind eye to (or denying or making excuses for) the abuse of people and Scripture by its founder, VPW, who they continue to laud as their great man of God who taught "the accuracy of The Word." There's been more than enough evidence shown that he plagiarized-- stole -- a great deal of those teachings. So if you're loyal to TWI, in my view that's the stuff you're loyal to. What does that say about such people?

In the mid 1980s while I was on staff at TWI HQ, I knew Rev. Bill Greene, but not well enough to sit down and have a conversation with. He was always polite to me but that was it. He was a total loyalist, as far as I could tell, even back then. I had known his wife, Marcia, since the 1970s, because we were both at HQ for summer school, etc. back then. Around the time I went in the Second Corps, Sept. 1971, VPW sent her on a special roving WOW Ambassador Overseer assignment with a guy named Steve Aldridge (he had a brother named Mike). She and Steve were both from N.C. They traveled around the country in a camper doing PR for WOWs and "undersheparding them." She was originally from the ECU fellowship in Greenville, NC, where I was recruited in 1970, a short time after she left. If memory serves me well, she lived in the ECU Way Home when the Sommervilles (VP's daughter, Mary, and her husband John Sommerville) lived in the house and "trained" future Way leaders. After the Sommervilles left, John and Pat Lynn moved in and did that job. They were there when I was recruited (see Undertow). Anyhow, fast forward to 1986 at HQ. Marcia and Bill were Corps leaders at HQ. When I helped one of the research guys with an Aramaic class for the in-rez Corps, Marcia was around and I remember an issue with her criticizing the research guy for going home on the weekend to visit his "earthly" family rather than stick around for some event at HQ. She said something like, Well, that shows where his loyalties are. That is something I never forgot.

I found this in my files. Time Magazine 09-1971.pdf

Something I learned after leaving TWI is that fundamentalists who cling to the non-negotiable notion that the gospels should not contradict each other (which comes from the belief in inerrancy) will come up with ludicrous interpretations like four crucified. They disregard the fact that each gospel stands on its own. And in case you don't know, each gospel was written loooong after the events it describes. And the gospels were written long after Paul wrote his letters, too. Sometimes I wonder how people woud view the N.T. if the order of the books were put in order of when they were written. That would result in the gospels coming AFTER Paul's epistles. If you're super interested in this topic, check out Fundamentalism by James Barr. And excellent books on the history of the N.T. texts are available by Bart Ehrman. They are easy to read, too!

No. It's too big.

The cover of The Toldeo Blade Sunday magazine, March 26, 1972. BEYOND YUK! Just FYI: I also have a PDF of that LIFE Magazine article, but it's too large to post here. The date of it is May 14, 1971. The cover has a photo of Carol Burnett on it. The article inside on The Way is titled, "The Groovey Christians of Rye, N.Y." by Jane Howard. With that article is a photo of VPW on his motorcycle, but it's a bit different than this one. Next to the photo is this: "My vision," Way founder Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille likes to say, "is for the world! We're growing faster than we know how to handle." He made his first triumphal trip to Rye, from Ohio, on a motorcycle."

Today I again spoke with a religion class at Rollins College. Students were assigned to read Undertow and we discussed it. Attached is a handout I gave them to help them understand cults. Feel free to pass it along to others. Cheers, Charlene Cult info flyer-student version_r1.pdf

Hi Greasespotters, The International Cultic Studies Association (I'm affiliated with them) sent this announcement today about a new series beginning March 28, 2024. New Docuseries "Cult Justice" Premiers on Hulu, March 28, 2024 (networkforgood.com) Cheers! Charlene Edge, author of Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International. https://charleneedge.com

WIshing you the very best in your journey, OldSkool! Charlene

I don't know which error that Bart Stewart, the reviewer, referred to in Undertow. It may have been the military/athletic stuff in Ephesians, which I describe in the book, or it may have been the Eli Eli issue, also in my book. Whatever it is, it would be in the book, since all the reviewer is referring to is content in the book.

Hello, Greasespotters. Just letting you know that another significant review of Undertow was just published by the International Cultic Studies Association, Inc. By permission, I've republished it here: Book Review of "Undertow," Published by ICSA, Written by Bart Stewart (charleneedge.blogspot.com) Remember, no author vets reviewers. ICSA put out the word about Undertow and this reviewer chose it. Their review is their response to the book, their opinions, their interpretations. Also, keep in mind this reviewer used other sources about The Way besides Undertow in his review. Enjoy! Charlene Edge

Hi Greasespotters! Breaking news: Besides my own website, I have a second home where I speak about The Way International. Where is it? On Blogspot. A Blogspot Valentine If sharing = love, then I consider my effort to share what I know about The Way as a loving gift. And since it's Valentine's Day today, consider this as one big heart-shaped offering. Keep reading for instructions on how to find my articles on Blogspot. But first: on my Blogspot account, you'll also find links to two travel blogs about trips my husband, Hoyt, and I took together: one to Turkey and the other to the Amazon in Peru. Why Blogspot? Before I had my own website and wrote blog posts like this one to send subscribers, I used Blogspot for those two travel stories. They are still there for anyone to read. Blogspot is easy-to-use, and it's free. But Google owns it, so there's that. Anyway, a couple of months ago, I decided to republished some of my content about cults, fundamentalism, and The Way International over on Blogspot hoping to reach more readers. There are many, many, many people who have left The Way and many others who have left some offshoots of The Way. Those folks and others are seeking information to shed light on their experiences and get some history of The Way. Because I was part of The Way for 17 years: a member of The Way Corps leadership and a Biblical researcher trained by the founding president of The Way, Victor Paul Wierwille, I offer insights on that group and on organizations derived from it. Finding Charlene's posts about The Way International on Blogspot Click this link: Charlene Lamy Edge Speaks about The Way International (charleneedge.blogspot.com) After you click the above link, this is what you should see: Scroll down that page to find more posts. These posts are in chronological order going backwards. The first one is "Speaking of Way Stories," dated December 9, 2023. Finding the travel stories On the left side of the page that's in this photo, you would click my name, which is in black letters at the top underneath the circular photo. Doing that takes you to my account page. You'll see links to the travel posts there. NOTE: Unfortunately, the photos of the Turkey trip did not transfer when Blogspot updated their system. However, the photos of the Amazon trip are all there! Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks for reading! Charlene

Socks said: The original RoA was a night during the Winter Advance of 1971 that was called Rock of Ages. That summer of 1971 was the first R of A gathering. Over the next few years the event went from local fairgrounds to the Way's property in New Knoxville, "the farm". Yes, and I was there at all of them, Socks, just like you. Great to meet you then and hear from you now! You were/are one of the "real" ones. The photo below appeared in The Toledo Blade newspaper. It captures the stage dynamic from ROA August, 1971, at The Way HQ near the pond. On a personal note, I happened to be the Corps applicant who painted the banner at the back of the stage "The Word Over the World." I used orange paint, who knows why? And I remember making the banner out of oiled canvas up in the barn under dangling light bullbs (from the rafters) on a makeshift table made of plywood held up by wooden "horses," like the ones they use to stop traffic. I think that autobiographical detail is relayed in Undertow. Anyway, I hear that the WOW phrase is trademarked now. Lemme go back and paint a superscript TM on that banner, okay? To any staff member at HQ who is reading these posts here at Greasespot Cafe, I can't imagine any young people today would jump at the chance to re-enact such hippiedom-yoked to-Bible-thumping. But maybe I'm wrong. Stranger things have happened.

It varies according to people's interests, and other things like emotional and mental health, as far as I know. I can only really speak about my own journey. Here's a bit about my post-cult experience: https://charleneedge.com/charlenes-post-cult-nonreligious-alternative/

Happy New Year, Greasespotters! Just letting you know I've republished some posts on the "cult" topic over on Blogspot. Charlene Lamy Edge Speaks about The Way International (charleneedge.blogspot.com) Cheers, Charlene

Happy New Year, Greasespotters! Just letting you know I've republished some posts on the "cult" topic over on Blogspot. Charlene Lamy Edge Speaks about The Way International (charleneedge.blogspot.com) Cheers, Charlene

I noticed this Bickle group likes using catchy phrases, like the 24/7 Prayer Room. In 2017, I presented a paper at an International Cultic Studies Association conference about breaking the power of cult symbols (and catchy phrases), using TWI as an example. Attached is the PDF of that paper for your enjoyment. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. and Happy New Year! Charlene Breaking the Power of Cult Symbols.pdf

There's been talk on other threads here on GSC about writing your Way story, whether on social media platforms or in articles or books. If the target audience for your story are folks who know little or nothing about The Way, I offer a checklist of things outsiders need to understand when reading a Way story in this blog post from my own website. Maybe it'll help you as a writer. Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com) If you do move forward with publically telling your Way story, there are lots of books about writing memoir. One I like is Your Life as Story by Tristine Rainer. A list of other books that helped me write Undertow are in From the Porch to the Page: A Guidebook for the Writing Life | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com). One of my favorite quotes: "Writing is not a performance but a generosity." ~ Brenda Ueland in her book, If You Want to Write

During my time in TWI (1970-1987) I never heard anyone say birth control was forbidden. But I was in the 2nd Way Corps, so evidently this rule came later. Don't know who is responsible for it. This is another example of inconsistent, scattered changes instituted throughout a cult as years go by depending on which leaders say what. In my day, VPW told us married people to use birth control and wait for a couple of years to have kids so we could have those years to establish our marriages. In my recent blog post, I point out reasons why Way stories can vary so much. https://charleneedge.com/speaking-of-way-stories/

I admire Jennifer's bravery in sharing her traumatic experiences and related information on Substack. Here's my blog today that includes a link to her post: Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com) Cheers, Jennifer.