DontWorryBeHappy

memories of some later teens.............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQR-OsH0RQ...feature=related#

ode to sweet memories!............... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTf52IsksKI#

nice help, waysider.......love dem horns!..........here's huey and the news without help!............ #

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!..............from all of us happy "remnants".........................peace! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFLy8eGtSYo#

DEDICATED TO JALVIS...........A FAITHFUL SON OF HIS "FATHER-IN-THE-WORD"..............FOR HAVING COME FULL CIRCLE, AND JOINING THE RANKS OF HIS FELLOW, LOYAL, SELF-DELUDED, SELF-OBSESSED, AND SELF-RIGHTEOUS VIC APOLOGISTS!..............CONGRATULATIONS, PILGRIM!..............YOUR SEARCH HAS ENDED, RIGHT WHERE IT BEGAN!............I GUESS SELLING PERSONAL PROPHECIES IS'NT AS LUCRATIVE AS IT USED TO BE, EH?............SO, LIKE A DOG RETURNING TO ITS VOMIT, YOU'RE BACK TO SQUARE ONE!!.................................PEACE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54qhjlTNVn0...feature=related#

who is john lynn?..............just another run-of-the-mill vic apologist!!!..........."YE HYPOCRITES!".............................peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9M5_YBckjw&NR=1# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33nTnawq6jk#

wow!.....billie doin' strange fruit!!!.........don't even wanna consider beatin' it........but matchin' it......oh yeah!!!........the human voice as an instrument with perfect pitch!!!!.......the one, the only.........ella fitzgerald!!!!......enjoy!! #

evidently, as that old adage says, "old habits are hard to break"............... whitedove said....."WOW TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND AMERICAN WAY That sounds like something the bird would say....Oh wait he did. Glad to see my post inspired you Mr. Tongue Man, not bad for a morally repugnant, intellectually vapid, psychologically unsound, rife with logical fallacies, contentious, malignantly opinionated, and mean-spirited.... post. Oh wait I see you went back edited that inspired part out of you post. "...........actually, "the bird" simply reminded me of the opening of the old 50's tv series "superman", with george reeves, which is where i first heard the phrase, "truth, justice, and the american way"........maybe the first place "the bird" heard it too?...........i did not edit my post #130 on the "lingo" thread you must be referring to.........it's still there, exactly as it's been since i first posted it!..............as i said, old habits are hard for "the bird" to break! "the bird" said,....."Upon reading the snips of judge John D.Schmitt that you provided it appears to me that he correctly ruled that The right to believe is absolute. The right to act is subject to reasonable regulation. I concur with his ruling They are two separate things, belief of truth and actions are not one in the same. I think a few of us have been saying that for awhile around here. We absolutely have the right to believe and accept scriptural truth despite or regardless of any good or bad actions by the speaker. Actions of the speaker while subject to civil law as they should be ,do not however change the truth of scripture or earthly knowledge one can learn from their words into untruth. If one beats his dog does that make 2+2 not equal 4, hardly, if one is morally unsound does that change by magic the truth of the scripture." two "bad habits" common to "the bird's" discussion style are again glaringly apparent in this one paragraph...........the logical fallacy known as "attacking the straw man", and the flagrant revision of facts or statements which setting up "the straw man" requires!................the first 2 sentences of this paragraph actually reflect accurately what judge schmitt wrote in the final decree as posted on the greasespot homepage.....the 3rd sentence reflects that "the bird" has corrected his use of the word "concur"..........i'm glad that the judge's decree agrees with "the bird's" legal accumen!............then, the first revision occurs as "the bird" begins gathering his straw.............the judge NEVER WROTE "belief of truth and actions are not one in the same".................what he did write was "The Court finds that an important distinction exists between belief and conduct" .......somehow, "the bird" revised the judge's actual statement by arbitrarily adding the words "of truth" to what the judge wrote!........the judge NEVER PRESUMED to throw out an opinion as to what "TRUTH" is when pointing out the distinction between "belief and conduct"! that is a presumption typically made by the vic apologists.....that is, that "mere religious beliefs and opinions" along with, and including, "The beliefs espoused by The Way" are beliefs or opinions "of truth"!.........that is a presumption which neither judge schmitt nor i agree with nor accept!...........it is, however, a presumption, interpretation, and opinion absolutely necessary for the bird to make in order to build his "straw man"!! the rest of the paragraph is now uselessly spent in "the bird's" attempt to tear down the "straw man " fallacy he's built for himself to attack!....."I think a few of us have been saying that for awhile around here. We absolutely have the right to believe and accept scriptural truth despite or regardless of any good or bad actions by the speaker. Actions of the speaker while subject to civil law as they should be ,do not however change the truth of scripture or earthly knowledge one can learn from their words into untruth. If one beats his dog does that make 2+2 not equal 4, hardly, if one is morally unsound does that change by magic the truth of the scripture.Doubtful"..........yes, a few of you have been tearing down this same "straw man" argument around here for years!!.........no one has ever argued your "right" to accept vic's interpretation, or opinions of the bible as "scriptural truth"........some just take offence at your expectation that the rest of us, along with the rest of christendom, should also accept it as such, and that we are somehow "wrong before god" for not accepting those same interpretations and opinions of the bible you presume to be "scriptural truth"!! "the bird's" debate with himself now continues building and tearing down the "straw man" that's been hangin' around the twi cornfield of "scriuptural truth" for so many years!........"Now another issue as some have brought before us is....... does it change they way one might or might not accept what the person is saying? I believe that most of us agree that it could affect the believability of such a message, but that is not one in the same as nullify the message. It may to the hearer , that is the choice of each hearer, but the truth of the message still none the less is intact regardless of the opinion of each hearer. Another words one may not accept that 2+2 =4 from a immoral person ,but that fact remains that it does not change the truth that it does equal 4. It only prevents the hearer from accepting and believing the truth due to their actions. Another may not care about their actions, they may just want to learn math and so to them the lesson is learnable despite the moral state of the teacher. Scripture is not dependant on the teachers actions either Christians accept it as so because God declares it so ,in spite of mans actions. I think that is the message of Romans (Good for us......) I think we all understand that one should be living the words we speak, as best as we are able. But when we don't it does not make the words of the scripture untrue" it is a well-known historical fact, that prior to the letter to FDR from albert einstein, in which al strongly encouraged the president to begin what was to be called "the manhattan project", (that was the US's top secret devolpment program for the atomic bomb).........hitler's nazi physicists and engineers, many of whom were among the most renowned "teachers" of these subjects in the world at that time, were well on their way to developing their own such weapon!........many of the world's leading physicists and engineers were busily at work for the third reich in the development of nuclear weaponry........i, for one, am most certainly glad that einstein, oppenheimer, and others "cared enough" about the immoral, evil, "actions" of those nazis, and refused to "learn" their physics and engineering from them, or join their nazi leaders, because they "just wanted to learn" from them how to build the bomb!!............. "the bird's" paragraph as quoted above, is, imo, just another myopic argument in support of the logically false premise he "snuck in" with his 2nd paragraph! more from "the bird"....."The judge rightly rules QUOTEThe United States Supreme Court has specifically held that while laws cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices. QUOTEAccordingly, the Ohio Supreme Court has determined that sexual misconduct by clergy is not protected by any claim of First Amendment privilege.Clearly he understands that belief of truth and actions are in fact two different things. I think the bird has said that as well. VP's actions are subject to a legal ruling as any other person, their fair day in court. A real one not the kangaroo court of the internet. As such that ruling would be binding ,and proof of burden, "in essence truth" regarding the matter. Trouble is we seem to be missing any case number where that happened. As such we then can conclude that we have no case, or ruling to establish guilt or innocence to refer to. In short no legal ruling. As such it is not documented." clearly, the judge DOES NOT!............. there's that requisite "straw man"- building revision again!..........judge schmitt wrote nothing of the sort!...............again, the judge wrote, "The Court finds that an important distinction exists between belief and conduct" .........no "belief of truth and actions are in fact two different things" in what judge schmitt decreed!!!...............the rest of the paragraph just sits there!......like a duck!........excuse me, a dove!.............interesting how "the bird" keeps trying to mention vic and "truth" in the same opinionated context!..........it's difficult to link two completely incompatible things together as if there is some positive connection between them!........but, as the faithful vic apologist that he is,.........the words of pete seeger come to mind here, "knee deep in the big muddy and the damn fool marches on"! finally, "the bird" concludes his lesson in logical fallacy with, " As the good judge pointed out in his wisdom, actions by a person are independent of what they believe, actions do not affect belief, truth, teaching, or many other things, but they are accountable however under law. I concur with this ruling as well. I think I have through the years been an advocate of a day in court, due process of law to establish guilt or innocence for the alleged offender." yet again, the judge pointed out no such thing!.........another interpolation from the dove!...........actions most certainly do affect "belief, truth, teaching" and the "many other things" "the bird" arbitrarily adds to what is, in fact, an entirely objective, sound decree, written by a trained professional!................a public document "the bird" subjected to yet another hatchet-job of illogic, misinterpretation, and acutely biased personal opinion................one more incredible example of what "the bird" accepts and promotes in his version of "truth, justice, and the american way".................WOW ALRIGHT!!!...................another typical dose of "love from da dove" presented in his oh-so-familiar posting style!.......................................peace.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yUlSav06dI...feature=related#

christians, muslims, buddhists, jews, hindus, and to all gods everywhere........................please...............pray for peace................. #

hard to believe this song/poem is 45 years old!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIEDHMu0Zw...feature=related#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVIm7-0GxnA...eature=related#

classic T-Bone............ "What devil spirits were operating in The Way?" – more like, what con artists were operating in the way! I think vp's idea of discerning of spirits was being able to find the Drambuie in a liquor store he wasn't familiar with. ROTFLMAO!...........thanks dude!......you rock!

hi once again fellow greasespotters! thanks for the good number of some of the most thoughtfully considered posts i've enjoyed reading here at the greasespot cafe!.........i sure do appreciate the insights and considered opinions that most of the posts so far on this thread have shared, as well as the interesting information..........imho, this is the point and purpose of reasoned, civil discussion........the goal being not to expect or demand agreement by all on the opinions of a few, but rather, the encouragement of understanding of the varied opinions expressed, along with promotion of mutual tolerance of the divergent beliefs expressed by avoiding the distractions of comments riddled with personal rancor, and/or frustrated reliance upon the use of logical fallacies......an unfortunate habit which some of our fellow greasespotters apparently find quite difficult to break............kudos to pawtucket, our mild-mannered host for allowing the expression of many divergent opinions, and our volunteer moderators whose record of "even-handed", respectful moderation of posts in the various forums helps to maintain a "reasonable order" in our greasespot community, and avoid the utter chaos of unrestrained, vitriolic "food fights"! i chose to focus the subject of this topic on the words of judge schmitt because, imho, they are quite objective, and are an obviously serious, professional responsibility of an elected civil servant charged with the job of providing sound legal judgement to and for his constituents.........judge schmitt was never a member of twi, and therefore, even beyond the requirements of his job, he was able to avoid the highly charged emotions which swirled around and among the parties to this case......in addition let me state, that i used to live in his area of jurisdiction........spent 7 years there.........and i know, firsthand, of the animosity, contempt, anger, distrust, and even hatred toward twi and its "leaders" harbored by the large majority of folks who lived in new knoxville, st.mary's, minster, new bremen, sidney, and other towns surrounding twi hq, and among many of judge schmitt's constituents........emotions and opinions which the judge, to his credit, was able to keep out of his legal duties and opinions in this case. the apparent inability of the vic/twi apologists to do the same with their own emotions and opinions in their mission to uphold their beliefs while trying to ignore, or otherwise rationalize the obvious and complete contradiction of vic's/twi's conduct with those beliefs, is disturbing to me..........many times, these apologists proclaim their thankfulness for our US constitution, and the "freedom of religion", and "freedom of speech" it wisely grants us as citizens of this nation, in an attempt to somehow add credence to their beliefs while ignoring or denying the obvious contradiction to vic's "teachings of truth" which his conduct so glaringly demonstrated!........they insist that his conduct has no bearing on "truth"............i disagree with what they assume "truth" is........they assume that vic "rightly divided" the bible, and thereby spoke "god's truth".........that is their interpretation regarding what "god's truth" is, imho!......my interpretation of what "god's truth" is, differs from their's.........however, they are profoundly intolerant of my intepretation of what "god's truth" is, to the point of insisting that vic's interpretation of the bible and "god's truth", is indeed the only valid interpretation because, in their minds it was somehow "god-breathed", and thereby inherently ordained and authorized by god himself to be "scriptural truth"...........pure and unadulterated!.............again, i disagree with their basic assumption! as judge schmitt wrote in his final decree in the allen case, "The right to believe is absolute. The right to act is subject to reasonable regulation designed to protect a compelling state interest.....The United States Supreme Court has specifically held that while laws cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices........The Court finds that an important distinction exists between belief and conduct. The beliefs espoused by The Way, and its members, are not subject to review by this Court. The conduct of The Way, and its members, is subject to reasonable regulation designed to protect a compelling state interest. The First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution cannot be used to protect The Way, or its members, against legislation for the punishment of acts inimical to the peace, good order and morals of society........ Accordingly, the Ohio Supreme Court has determined that sexual misconduct by clergy is not protected by any claim of First Amendment privilege.........Similarly, a religious organization can be held liable for failing to protect its members from the sexual assaults of its employees.........The Court finds that Craig Martindale's sexual encounters with Mrs. Allen must be considered as conduct, rather than beliefs.".........i firmly believe that there is indeed, "a compelling state interest" in the "reasonable regulation" of "the conduct of The Way, and its members"!........conduct which, imho, was and remains, "inimical to the peace, good order, and morals of society"!...........as responsible citizens of the state, and as concerned members of society, i believe our interest in these matters is, and should be, as "compelling" as it was for judge schmitt!............and i also believe, that even though der victoid now "sleeps with the fishes", our interest in helping his surviving victims arrive at a point of healing and closure in their lives, from vic's conduct toward them, is, and should be equally "compelling"!!! if the vic/twi apologists choose to remain intellectually incapable of making the same distinctions judge schmitt made, and remain adamant in their devaluation of the destructive psychosocial impact vic's/twi's conduct had upon our society in general, and specfically upon far too many of our brothers and sisters in christ...........then, imho, the words of jesus christ spoken to the "scribes and pharisees" of his time are equally applicable to these "scribes and pharisees" of our current generation.........."woe be unto you scribes and pharisees!......ye hypocrites!"!!!...............................peace.

hello fellow greasespotters! as many of us who have spent any considerable length of time browsing the greasespotcafe forums have come to know, there have, through the years of this site's existence, been a number of discussions regarding whether or not the conduct/behavior of vic, or the dancing prez, the doofus from okie, and the current twi prez, rosie the riveter. along with their various BOT cronies,.............even when flagrantly contrary to what many would agree "god's word" clearly states and prescribes as necessary and proper conduct/behavior the body of christ may rightfully expect and demand from its church "leadership"................. still does not negate whatever, if any, "scriptural truth" these church "leaders" may have taught or spoken...........spawning oft-repeated proclamations from the small core of "apologists" loyal to vic, et al, along the lines of, "truth is truth, no matter who speaks it"! in re-reading the final decree by judge john d.schmitt in the common pleas court of shelby ohio, which is posted on the greasespot home page, in the "Editorials" section under the title The Final Decree-John D. Scmitt, i thought several paragraphs from the decree would provide an interesting topic for discussion here, for any who might like to participate......a comment on another thread inspired the topic title i chose for this thread, "truth, justice, and the 'not-so-american' way international...........those paragraphs follow, and i have bolded several specific sentences which i hope will become central to any ensuing discussion............. "However, even though the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution prohibit Civil Courts from unwarranted intrusion into religious doctrine, policy, or purely ecclesiastical or spiritual disputes of a church or a religious organization, there is no constitutional protection for actions which, even when clothed in a religious mantle, violate basic premises of our society. Swann v. Pa , 527 S.W. 2d 99 (Tenn. 1975). The right to believe is absolute. The right to act is subject to reasonable regulation designed to protect a compelling state interest. Id. The United States Supreme Court has specifically held that while laws cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices. Reynolds v. .1 IS, 98 U. S. 145 (1878). The Court finds that an important distinction exists between belief and conduct. The beliefs espoused by The Way, and its members, are not subject to review by this Court. The conduct of The Way, and its members, is subject to reasonable regulation designed to protect a compelling state interest. The First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution cannot be used to protect The Way, or its members, against legislation for the punishment of acts inimical to the peace, good order and morals of society. Davis v, Beasor 133 U.S. 333, 342 (1980). Accordingly, the Ohio Supreme Court has determined that sexual misconduct by clergy is not protected by any claim of First Amendment privilege. Strock v. Pres 38 Ohio St.3d (1988). Similarly, a religious organization can be held liable for failing to protect its members from the sexual assaults of its employees. Byrd v Faber, 57 Ohio St.3d 56 (1991). The Court finds that Craig Martindale's sexual encounters with Mrs. Allen must be considered as conduct, rather than beliefs. The issue is whether or not the sexual relationship was consensual. The state has a compelling interest in preserving the peace, and that includes the prevention of sexual assaults. Counts one and two of plaintiffs complaint are predicated upon plaintiffs' allegation that Mrs. Allen was sexually assaulted by Craig Martindale, a trustee and leader of The Way at the time. The issue of whether or not the sexual relations between Mr. Martindale and Ms. Allen was consensual, is a question of fact, which must be left to the jury." In Count Five, plaintiffs allege that defendants acted in concert to achieve an unlawful purpose, and as a result of defendants' conspiracy, plaintiffs have been assaulted. There is evidence that Rosalie Rivenbark knew about Craig Martindale's extra marital sexual relationships, as early as 1995. Deposition of L. Craig Martindale, page 123. Accordingly, a jury must decide not only if Mrs. Allen has been sexually assaulted, but also whether or not a conspiracy existed among the defendants, which enabled the alleged assault to occur." "Similarly, in Count Six, plaintiffs allege that defendants engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity, which included acts. of assault and rape. There is evidence to indicate that both Rosalie Rivenbark and Ramona Bidon played a role in the events leading up to the sexual encounter between Craig Martindale and Mrs. Allen. A jury must decide whether the encounter was consensual, or if an assault occurred. If the jury finds that an assault occurred, the same jury might reasonably conclude that defendants engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity, which led to the assault." i was deposed by twi's lawyers during the discovery phase of this case, and was scheduled to appear as a witness for the plaintiffs............i am acutely aware of why twi abruptly decided to settle this case out of court..............and so too are those defendants still alive, despite the years of unabashed "SPIN" they and twi, and their "faithful" apologists have unrelentingly vomited upon their "household" of followers, and the very few nominal and/or "cosmetic" so-called "changes" to their public personae! it is my opinion that, the conduct of these hypocritical "whited sepulchres" indeed nullifies their purported "beliefs" as being "biblically accurate"...........it is also my opinion that, despite their interpretation of what is "scriptural truth", any such "scriptural truth" they may have spoken or taught is indeed negated (as spoken or taught by them) by their blatantly "unscriptural" conduct! let the discussion begin!.........and let's all "play nice" and try hard to avoid ad hominem attacks..........such attacks are, after all, classic logical fallacies, and, as such, do not encourage fruitful, civil discussion, but rather, choke and destroy civil discussion, while taking all the fun out of it too!!!..................................peace.

hiya folks!.........dmiller..........LOL!......... waysider............there are several nazis who post here regularly!.......not much "neo" about their revisionism of vic's "ministry", or adolph's for that matter!.......not much difference between the two, other than some words and geography!.......funny thing is, that the "neo-nazis" who continue "moving das verd over das velt" don't allow their own devotees to post on their own offshoot websites, so like mayo, they've got no place else to go to freely express themselves!........and, as history so sadly proves, fascism needs its propaganda in steady doses, over and over and over again!..........fortunately, most people with functioning brains, and even average intelligence, are able to learn from history........but these "believers" with their amoebic intelligence and rabid religious fervor, are truly doomed to repeat it, and they take great pride in doing so!.............kinda like dogs returning to their vomit!..........only worse!...................peace.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY EXCIE!!!...........39 AIN'T THAT OLD AT ALL!!............SINCERE BEST WISHES FOR MANY MORE BIRTHDAYS CELEBRATED IN GOOD HEALTH, INCREASING JOY, AND WONDERFUL PEACE!

whitedove said, on post #56 of this thread. " First off I'll point out that this thread was to welcome back Jonny, of course you decided to derail it with another subject matter namely Mrs. Skedgells book and so of course being the attentive person that I am I will answer your posts which will most assuredly generate more and more answers. Just for the record down the road when it ends up to be pages. Ill point out now who disrupted the discussion, just as in the other one I think it is clear who started that discussion if one looks back at the posts." first off, i'll point out, that my first post on this phoney little "welcome back" thread of yours (the first 2 1/2 paragraphs of which you quoted on your post #56 on this thread), began with my quoting your 2nd post on this thread (post #3), which was your reponse to waysider's post #2 on this thread. i then began the 3rd paragraph of my post #7 here, with a quote from your opening post on this thread.............interesting that you would consider my quoting from your first two posts on a thread which you started, and then expressing my opinion regarding what you posted, and asking you a direct question about a statement you made in your opening post on your thread in this open forum , to somehow be "off topic" and a "derail"!??.........but, if you consider it to be such, then so be it! after your post #3 here on your thread, there were 3 very short posts before my "derail" post #7..........not very much of a "discussion" i "disrupted", imo........but, again, if you consider it as such, then so be it! then you mention "the other one" , referring to "that discussion" you disrupted on the "losing the way part 2" thread.........but, since you bring that up again on your post #57 of this thread, i'll get back to that in a bit..........but first, allow me to disagree with your opinion that you "never trashed her (kristen skedgell's) story"........apparently your opinion differs from that of pawtucket, who started the thread you derailed, and who felt constrained to remove some of your disruptive, off topic posts, stating that your "utter disrespect for a victim is sickening"!...........an opinion evidently shared by the overwhelming majority of the others who posted on that same thread! on post #57 here, whitedove said, "Your opinion, are you implying that you can read heart and honesty in ink? Type has no emotions its an assumption at best and you know it." ...........absolutely that's what i'm "implying"!!......what is one of the great purposes of all literature, both much of non-fiction as well as fiction?........to communicate no emotion? dishonesty?..........is writing intended to be heartless, unemotional, and thereby, non-communicative of anything but "cold, hard, fact"??..........is this what you demand from your bible??.....from "the blue book"....from vic's bible teachings and writings?........from literature in general??.....from your own writing?..........if it is, you again are a blatant hypocrite, imo!...........do you expect me to believe that every post you type here, or anywhere in cyberspace, has "no emotions" of yours??..........talk about an "assmption"!! whitedove's next attempt at typing nothing but "cold, hard, facts" on post #57 is. "This thread was started because Jonny returned to the cafe his return had nothing to do with other threads I think if one reviews the records one will find that the bait and switch was started with another poster. Let me refresh your memory"..........no thanks!..........let me instead "refresh" and correct yours..........this is a classic example, imho, of the "bait and switch' tactics you are "good at doing" as pawtucket mentioned!........you've been complaining about this for a while now, conveniently editing posts as necessary, and contrary to being "the attentive person" you claim to be, you completely ignore the chronology of various posts, splicing them together in an order which serves only your manic need to rearrange the contexts to fit your "bait and switch" "discussion" style. the first post you quote following your "review of the records" was posted by groucho on june,12th, at 122am.....post #8 on the "losing the way part 2" thread..........nowhere on that post does your name appear.........as a matter of fact, no names appear on that post!........it is obviously groucho's response to having listened to the interview which is the topic of that thread, started by pawtucket.........clearly his opinion.........you then quote groucho again, prefacing said quote with the words "followed by".......but you "inadvertently" fail to indicate when and what that second groucho post "followed"!........that second groucho post you quote is post #60!.......posted on june 17th at 707pm which "followed" his post #8 alright........more than 5 and 1/2 days later!.........and which was in response to your first post on that thread, post #58, which you posted on june 17th at 418pm!!..........50 posts and 5 and 1/2 days after groucho's post # 8 on that thread!.........you quoted groucho's post #8, and then whitedove said,"Speaking of denial........ despite the obvious, you still assume that the group that you have apparently taken upon yourself to pigeonhole with a name is in denial. I wonder just what qualifies you to speak for others?"?????????........did you somehow infer from that post#8, that you , though never mentioned in post #8, were included in that "group" you accused groucho of "pigeonhole(ing) with a name"?...........if so, WHY?? as the "attentive person" you claim to be, why did you make such an inference?.........and what took you so long to make it, or why did it take you so long to presume that groucho was speaking for anyone but himself in post #8??...........why did you "disrupt the discussion" on that thread, and "derail" it with a question that had absolutely nothing to do with either the topic of the thread, or the 50+ post discussion that preceded your "bait and switch" on post #58????...........you did exactly the same thing later in that thread that you did here on post #57..........in the same feeble attempt to "refresh my memory" there, like you did here.........as i said.........no thanks!!.........the last person capable of refreshing anyone's memory, honestly, and accurately, is whitedove, imo!!!........btw.......groucho's post #60 was in response to your post #58, and, it was the first time anyone mentioned your name on that thread, and it was the first time anyone mentioned "the blue book", which groucho mentioned facetiously at the end of his response to your question to him!!............thanks for the memories "mr.dove"!!.......sic! then whitedove said, "It appears that Mr. Dove only answered the above questions and did indeed not start the conversation in question. Get you facts straight. If one waves the red flag in front of the bull you really can't cry fowl when he charges now can you? "........it appears the way whitedove's revisions try to make it appear..........not at all the way it really was!!.........get your facts straight mr. "attentive person"!!...........before you try to rearrange the facts into whitedove's "emotionless fiction".........certainly no one needs to wave any flags in front of one so "full of bull" as mr. dove in order to encourage his ridiculous "charges"!!.........apparently all it takes is facts, logic, or truth to encourage those blind "charges". more "love from the dove", "For someone that seems interested in staying on topic COUGH.... it appears that you seemed to stray from the one here I don't recall Mrs. Skedgells book being the point of this one. Lecture me when you can manage to do so yourself. Your questions were not honest ones you seek no answer, only to spew your hate further ,my choice if and when I answer questions, and I respond in the manner to match the tone of the question."............is that "heart and honesty" i detect in your typing there mr.dove??.........and you accuse me of "making assumptions" about what you post??..........evidently you not only cannot read what's written in posts other than your own, but you appear to be quite 'tone" deaf to boot!!.........i invite all those who choose to read for themselves what i wrote to whitedove in post #79 on the "losing the way part 2" thread.........and i happily stand by every word i've posted on this thread also, whitedove, as well as every opinion i've expressed here. still more "love from the dove", "If you make assumptions that is your mistake I never implied anything, I never stated that Jonny was my best friend anywhere your assumption at best we have emailed each other on occasion ... He offered his story to me as suport for my position last week in that he felt the same. I welcomed him back and requested something from him his choice if he does it or not. I did so because his story blessed my life and I think it could others as well I was happy to see others who did not bow under the pressure to obey others who believed the it is written motto."...........show me where i ever said anything close to you stating "jonny was my best friend"...........refresh my memory on this one please!.........more revision, and fiction courtesy of whitedove! .........thanks again, mr. "attentive person"! i don't think i'm going to waste any more time engaging mr. dove in a pointless, fruitless urinating contest on this thread, providing him with the attention he seems to crave..........i stand by everything i've posted here, as well as on the "losing the way part 2" thread......it's all there for anyone to plod through if they so choose.........i'm not posting here to change your mind whitedove..... you're obviously under the delusion that when it comes to vic and his cult, your bucket is full............your mind is made up, and you revel in your interpretations of vic's "word", the bible, and the great stand you take in upholding "the it is written motto"..........a motto trampled under the feet of the drunken,sociopathic,narcissistic, serial sexual predator who coined it!..........since you enjoy the right to express your opinions here at the greasespot, i'm going to express a few more of mine.........that's ok with you, is it not mr.dove?? i find your posts morally repugnant, intellectually vapid, psyhcologically unsound, rife with logical fallacies, contentious, malignantly opinionated, and mean-spirited..........imo, you pompously prance around the GSC forums in your vain attempt to play the role of the grand inquisitor of dante's inferno.........leaving your droppings for many to wretch at, and some to extoll..........again, your words, "Without Coffee I Would Have No Personality At All."...........maybe you should consider switching brands........the little personality you parade around in here is really worse than having no personality at all, imo!...........................peace.

LOL!.......AND, AMEN, GRUMPY!!!!.........................AND THERE WAS.................................PEACE!

thanks jonny, for that last post!!..........and, NO!.......i never thought you to be a "cryptkeeper", nor a twi/vic "apologist"!......just wanted to clear that up with you.........and i'll explain a little bit about why i have posted as i have on this thread, so you realize that i'm not trying to pick at you, or paint you into a box in which you do not fit, nor belong, imho!......let me just reiterate what i said in my first post on this thread, "no offense to you jonny!........i enjoy your stories too.......they're humorous, usually nicely written, and often entertaining....."...i mean that in all honesty, jonny! firstly, i'd also like to thank you for the thread you started entitled "welcome back rascal".........i firmly believe that was an honest post by you to rascal, who was "suspended" from posting when you were, for the same length of time, for the same reasons..........it's also a post which exemplifies the kind of good guy you are, imho.......and, the reply you got from rascal i think also demonstrates the same thing about her........that, my friend, was a genuine, heartfelt post exchange between you two, which, i'm sure, just about every one here in our greasespot cafe community really appreciated from you, as well as rascal.........an honest "welcome back" that was appreciated by most of us fellow greasespotters.......kudos to you for posting it, with no "covert agenda".........i think it'll be one of my favorite jonny lingo posts for a long time to come........if that matters to you...... however, this thread, though entitled "welcome back jonny lingo", imho, shares none of the genuine heart or honesty that your "welcome back" thread does!.......it was started by whitedove less than 13 hours after pawtucket had to take the following distasteful, yet necessary action, "I removed posts by White Dove and oldiesman. They took an important subject and did a bait and switch which they are both good at doing. It violated the forum rules and mission of GS. Their utter disrespect for a victim is sickening."...........these "sickening" posts were removed from the thread "losing the way part 2"...........which, if you have'nt read, i invite you to, so that you'll better understand where i'm coming from on this thread, and in this post to you....... whitedove's refusal to stay "on topic" in that "important subject" thread, as well as his refusal to answer pertinent, honest, questions posed to him by me, and several other posters on that thread,........questions which solicited HIS "opinions" on issues central to that thread, and his posts on that thread..........was discourteous at best, and really more rudely condescending than at all necessary, imho.........my thoughts regarding his posting behavior on that thread are pretty well summed up in post #7 of this thread, which he supposedly started to welcome you back from "cyber-jail" (his term, not mine).............but. which, imho, was started as a snide response to pawtucket's actions as i quoted above.........and he used his "implied" friendship with you as a brazen "cover" to try to prove some kind of spiteful point, as i said, less than 13 hours after the removal of his "sickening" posts on that thread............i thought that this thread he started was unfair to you, and was intended not as a "welcome back" like yours to rascal is, but rather, as an immature, angry, "slap-in-the-face" to paw, as well as the rest of us who posted questions to him on the topic of that thread...........imho, he used you to make his point...............and tried to cover it by patronizing you to post stuff you apparently had sent to him in pm's........ that's why i posted what i did in post #7 here, and continued to try to help you avoid any "guilt by association", which may have been sparked in the minds of many of your fellow greasespotters by whitedove's smarmy, patronizing proclamation of not just "friendship" with you, jonny, but more importantly the implied "ideological kinship" he seems to think he shares with you...........i.e."oh, jonny's a good guy, and he thinks like i do".............well, on this particular issue, i don't think that's an implication you deserve, nor is it appropriate to allow it to go unchallenged............and, i thank you again for clearing it up in no uncertain terms in the third paragraph of your last post here on this thread! regarding this, "I guess I am considered here by some as a "Way Apologist" (you have begun to wonder if I am one of the DWBH), because I still believe that there was lots of good stuff that I learned in The Way and that when I fell to my knees and asked God to "send me a Christian to show me the way" back in 1975, the next day a WOW gal from NY came to work where I worked and opened up the book of Ephesians to me. And then came on fifteen years of endeavor to serve The Almighty who had picked me up out of the miry clay. But when it became evident to me that there was no more word of God, I/we checked out. "Bye bye! Ephesians will just have to do for me/us"! And it has done well for me/us, and I don't think we, like you, have skipped too many beats since leaving..." i'll speak for myself and say, i do not consider you to be a "way apologist", or a "vic apologist", and i have not "begun to wonder" about that either!..........i know that you're not, and i know the impact your conversations with our beloved sunesis have had on you, as you shared with us...........and, i certainly do not begrudge you the "good times" and experiences you had in the corps and twi.........we share some fond memories together with many other of our fellow greasespotters, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THOSE WHO SUFFERED THE HORRORS WE DID NOT AT THE HANDS OF DER VICTOID, NOR IN DENIAL OF THE HORRORS HE PERPETRATED AGAINST FAR TOO MANY OF OUR INNOCENT BROTHERS AND SISTERS, IN SERVICE TO HIS OWN BELLY AND LUSTS!..........i care not at all whether he taught any "scriptural truth" or not............his actions speak so loudly i can't hear a word he taught or said, true or untrue!............that's where whitedove and i have absolutely no common ground........and jonny, i don't think he has as much in common with you as his posts on this thread were meant to lead us all to believe!.................love to you and yours, and..........................peace.

LOL!.......grumpy!........or is it monsieur le bump??.......either way, no denying the "cuteness" of your avatar, as rottiegrrl pointed out! trust me grumpy........i am most definitely well fed!.........it seems however, that sometimes i have a difficult time "controlling " my tongue!!..........hehehe............and i was wondering how close a "friend" jonny is with the first poster on this thread?............i was hoping that another old adage, "birds of a feather flock together" does not really apply to jonny and his "night vulture" pen pal!............jonny never struck me as the "crypt-keeper" type of fellow, ya know??............you ain't, is ya jonny???......................peace.

you guys up there in alaska are sure "spoiled" by having all that great wildlife up there "hangin' out" with ya every day!........pictures would be great, jonny especially any you would be able to take yourself! yes!......i am aware that pidgeons are "technically" doves!.........and we have plenty of pidgeons out here on the "right coast"........unfortunately, we can't hunt them out here, and they're actually much more of a nuisance, especially with their large numbers and the quantity of their droppings.........they're scavengers just like the eagles are out your way..........but i think the scavenging menu is better for them out your way than it is out here!........"doves" down here in the lower 48 have a more steady diet of "garbage" than they do salmon.............and you know the old saying, "garbage in--garbage out"........... must have been quite a battle bringin' in that 18lb king on a flyrod!!!.......way to go!.......sure must have been good eatin'!!..................peace.

"improvements" rhino?.........and exactly what might those be??..........after all, v2p2 is a "graduate" of their fabulous "fellowlaborers program"!!.....how much more "qualified" can he get to offer a twi-corps rerun?........according to nathan friedly, clapp and nessle are among the "reverends" who "train" those "fellowlaborers".......and, whether they "favor" the twi-corps rerun or not, they still have that link on their "official" website........do they not support the projects of the graduates of THEIR own "leadership training" program???........methinks they doth protest too much!............"improvements"???.........................peace.