DontWorryBeHappy

perhaps you have not seen this clarification i posted concerning the questions i asked What The Hey.........i have re-posted this in the hope that you might answer them within the context they were asked.........thank you...........peace.

happy birthday seth!.............hope you enjoy many more in good health and peace!

hiya shell!.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY!...........wishing you another great year of love, health and peace!.......all the best life has to offer!..........you deserve it!

i was born and raised in nyc and have been a ny giants fan since the days of charlie connerly, sam huff, rosey grier, frank gifford, y. a. tittle, etc.......however, having lived in massachusetts for 20 years, i have become a loyal patriots fan as well.............i am sad that their perfect season is over..;.......imperfectly..........but, at least it was the G-MEN who were the ones who ended the dream!......that makes it bearable...............the giants defense beat the crap out of the pats offense.......they knocked brady off his feet 18 times!........almost half of all his dropbacks!..........it was ole time giants smashmouth football!.....and, i'm happy for eli!......i said from day one he'd be the giants' franchise qb sooner or later........guess it's sooner!.........with my 2 favorite teams in it, it was a great super bowl!..........most watched super bowl ever!!!.......but, the outcome has got to be a huge disappointment for the franchise!............it'll be interesting to see what happens next season!......i say the pats will win the superbowl next year, without going undefeated.........but, until then it'll be, GO CELTICS!!! regarding the 12 men on-the-field review............that is a procedural penalty, like a false start or offsides, or delay-of-game.......not a play foul or personal foul.......a procedural penalty is automatic, in that it must be called and charged...........it automatically negates any play following the infraction without loss of down.......the reason belichek was allowed the review is that the review established indeed, that the giants 12th player did not make it off the field of play before the snap, thus causing the procedural penalty which was overlooked by the officials.........it's automatic and negated the preceding play without loss of down, and once determined, it had to be called.............that's my story and i'm stickin' to it!

hi wth!.........the question to which i am referring is the one you asked in the first paragraph of your post on this thread on january 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm.......... "I often wonder how VPW would answer all these accusations that are brought against him if he were still alive today. Could he follow suit with the likes of the apostle Paul as recorded there in Acts 24? Acts 24 tells us how Tertullus had accused Paul before the governor, accussed him of profaning the temple and being a mover of sediton among the Jews. The apostle Paul was accused of many things which the Jews assented saying those things he were accused of were true. Of course, the apostle Paul had the chance in that record to answer for himself to the accusations that were brought against him, but VPW can not do that as VPW is dead." now, if i may repeat: "the basic premise of wth's question presumes that there is a valid comparison to be made between the ministry of the apostle paul and that of vic wierwille, founder of twi.............my question regarding this massive presumption is.............do you, wth, truly give equal weight "before god" to the ministry of the apostle paul and the "ministry" of vic wierwille??..........are you presuming that paul the apostle and vic were called by the same god for the same reasons??............are you presuming both paul the apostle and vic received revelation from the same god concerning the bible??.............do you believe paul the apostle and vic were both carrying on "their ministry" with genuine authority and direction from god and his son, jesus christ?............your answers to these questions will determine whether any valid comparison between the apostle paul and vic wierwille can actually be made.................thanks for your reply......................peace."

dear rev. dr. bone.............i found your overly documented , yet brief article on acts19:23-28 to be the most incisive comparison of the ministries of paul the apostle and victor paul the scheister that i have ever seen posted here in the academic research section of the greasespot cafe!...........thank you for your insightful post!.......do you have any insight as to the proper use of the revelation manifestations by the 2oth century followers of victorus of zion?......is it true that doofus of okie was the most faithful follower of victorus? is that why he was able to lead the followers of victorus to their homeland of believing victory behind the walls of zion?........is that why doofus of okie was the greatest operator of discerning of spurts in this our day and time and hour???............it is obvious from your writings that you are THE bone we seek to answer these questions so dynamically important to the history of the universe!.............thank you for all you do for us, doctor!

A LA!!!!................all i can say is WOW!!!...............her scat brought a huge smile to my face for the duration!......but, alas, no parlez vous francais!!!.........thanks!

yo!......son of the master!.........happy double nickle dude!!!......................peace.

okay..........so that's it? there is "no link" between twi and cff according to nathan friedly?..........i knew both john shroyer and wayne clapp during my time in twi.........i was their "boss" in twi's leadership structure for several years........during my years in twi, i never knew of anything willfully wrong or immoral perpetrated against any "believers" by either of these men........my personal interactions with both john and wayne were positive and amicable to the best of my recollection...........but, to say there is "no link" between cff and twi is grossly inaccurate, and at best misleading..........at worst..........a blatant lie! why do these people "deserve" a "free pass" from their personal history of a "sold-out committment" to vic and the dancing prez and twi??..........because they were relatively "nice guys" during twi's reign of terror from 1989 to 1998?.........both knew enough of vic's "extra-curricular" activities back in the late 80's...........still they stubbornly clung to twi despite the debacle of pop and it's vicious aftermath..........they knew about the lies, the sexual and financial misconduct, the defamation of those who were speaking out about what really went on "behind the scenes" at hq and around the world..........yet, they chose to stick with the liars and the thieves!..........why?? when king okie's loyalty letter went out in march of 1989, both shroyer and clapp willfully chose to "stand" with martindale against geer, and all the rest of the "cop-outs"..........they rose to positions of leadership prominience in the early and mid-1990's.........during a time when king okie pushed twi into the horrors of the "prevailing word in the promised land of the present truth".........which included the infamous "homo purge", absolutely no debt, and the glorious practice of marking and avoiding hapless believers while the dancing prez and his boyz were sexin' it up with any women in the kingdom they desired and badmouthing the rest of the world!.........wayne clapp was running the family corps at rome city for several of those years!.......he was one of martindale's staunchest supporters!........how many humans did he and fern "help" at the behest of martindale? or moynihan?...........how many orders did wayne faithfully carry out which inflicted serious spiritual and psychoemotional harm upon human beings??..........how many lies about former leaders in twi did the clapps joyully pass along to twi followers?.........how many people have they sought out to apologize to for their shameful actions?? cff is as much wierwille's "fruit" as twi is!......they are, perhaps, more "loyal" to the doctrines and beliefs of vic than any other splinter group around with the exception of the geer cult!........the validity of the "spiritual credentials" of the leaders of cff is totally dependent upon acceptance of vic's teachings and almost all of twi's doctrine.........their structure is simply a "lite" version of the way tree..............we live in the united states of america, and cff has every right to exist, and teach whatever it wants.........but, it is also the right of those of us americans who choose not to accept cff's beliefs, to expect that cff speak the truth when it comes to their origins in twi, and their personal adherence to the theology of vic, and their version of vic's way ministry!.........imho, cff and vic are haplessly and hopelessly intertwined, and, in the long run, their spritual DNA will bear it's identifying fruit!............another one will bite the dust!..........why do the offshoots all expend so much effort in avoiding their deep entanglement in the life and teachings of vic and twi? what is it they are trying to hide?..........what connections are they trying to downplay?.......and, is lying the proper christian response to honest questions such as these? albert einstein said, "we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."..........all the offshoots of twi,.... ALL OF THEM!..........presuppose that the basic thelogy of vic's pfal series, is, or contains, or promotes, or delivers, or teaches the rightly divided word of god...........ALL OF THEM get their basic beliefs and doctrines from vic and his same "sources".........bg leonard, je stiles, ew bullinger, ew kenyon, rufus mosely, glenn clark, albert cliffe, rosalind rinker, e. stanley jones, and various other ministries they've hooked themselves up with through the last 20 years..........NONE OF THEM have taken the time to fully, exhaustively and objectively review the thinking which led these men to build and push their "ministries" to the world!.........they have simply adopted their own version or forms of vic's "original" thinking about god and the bible, and, either have gone on to evolve their own doctrines and classes and churches and fellowships, and whatever!, or, they have "ministries" which seek to "carry on" in the footsteps of the mogfot without "the legalism", or without "hurting people"!...................unless there is a a "new kind of thinking" about god and the bible, an entirely new consciousness of god in the hearts and minds of these "leaders", their "ministries" are doomed to produce the same fruit and accomplish the same end as vic's!................another einstein quote fits here nicely..........."learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. the important thing is not to stop questioning!".......... one more thing.............it is still my opinion, as it was in my first post here at the greasespot in september of 2007, that all the leaders of all the twi offshoots everywhere here in the USA, are as guilty as twi regarding their whitewashing of the life and "ministry" of victor paul wierwille and his way ministry!..........as long as they persist in carrying on in his teachings, doctrines and mannerisms, they are guilty of supporting and promoting the teachings and lifestyle of a narcissistic, sociopathic, alcoholic, serial sexual predator, who plundered his way through his little corner of god's people in the name of the accuracy and integrity of god's word!........that's my opinion, for what it's worth!...............guess who.........."in matters of truth and justice, there is no difference between large and small problems, for issues concerning the treatment of people are all the same.".............................peace.

the basic premise of wth's question presumes that there is a valid comparison to be made between the ministry of the apostle paul and that of vic wierwille, founder of twi.............my question regarding this massive presumption is.............do you, wth, truly give equal weight "before god" to the ministry of the apostle paul and the "ministry" of vic wierwille??..........are you presuming that paul the apostle and vic were called by the same god for the same reasons??............are you presuming both paul the apostle and vic received revelation from the same god concerning the bible??.............do you believe paul the apostle and vic were both carrying on "their ministry" with genuine authority and direction from god and his son, jesus christ?............your answers to these questions will determine whether any valid comparison between the apostle paul and vic wierwille can actually be made.................thanks for your reply......................peace.

hiya roy!...........so,.......has "dr. dale", as his website tells us he is lovingly referred to, (sound familiar?), ever responded to your letter?.........despite his hyperbolized "spiritual" rhetoric to the contrary, sides has very eerily reproduced vic yet once again!......while in wyoming, sides and sann and others flocked to b.g. leonard's ministry, took his class, got in serious "trouble" with twi for instigating a b.g. "revival" during the anniversary year corps week and roa, ran off to start his own ministry, which carries on the vp tradition of plagiarizing leonard and others, as well as "reproducing" vic's india trip, healings, and all!.......sides gets plenty of "revelation" from the same god vic got his from.........the "original" stuff dr. dale has manufactured is as bereft of legitimate scriptural support as vic's and bg's "original" stuff was/is!.........and, it's all just as "biblically accurate"!..........anoither legend in his own mind!!..............another twi offshoot, which, in the long run, will prove to be absolutely "true to its roots" in twi and b.g. leonard..........the fruit will eventually match......just like cff, ces/stf, finnegan, geer, seed, and straight on down the long list of vic's progeny.............. just wondering if you ever heard back from him roy!.........thanks for the thread................with a holy peace sign flashing your way!

thanks for all the great music youse guys and gals!............in keeping with song of the moment.....and great music..........how about a little jimi?........... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aUDVpHxw9c# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT86jjGz60k...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VblDwX67dS8# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJmPtneBibU# and to show how "old" this music is,.......here's 38 years ago this week........LOL! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV74PsUo1dc...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0II27jGrRm8...eature=related#

happy birthday wrdsandwrks!.............best wishes for many more birthdays to celebrate your health, happiness, and personal successes!.....................peace.

for dmiller and A La Prochaine............Merry Christmas! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reba2du6ZBg&NR=1# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgqCaSqm5v0#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POCGrH4ZUEI...eature=related#

christmas morning choich..........greasespot cafe, 2007! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M_OY88YYms...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRzzb-I7hy4...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyGhKSbEOE...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E2avuCHcFk...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHDw6LCancA...eature=related#

hey there nathan!.......welcome back!!!........good to see ya!......looking forward to hearing from you again!.......merry christmas to you and your's!...........peace.

you know folks........with all this excitement swirling around rev.groucho's class, we seem to have overlooked one very important FACT..........NATHAN FRIEDLY IS MISSING!!!.............where have you gone nathan??.........did mr. whitedove scare you away?......or, did rev. clapp tell you the internet is too dangerous a place for a righteous "leadership" trainee to be sharing "the truth of the word"??..........it seems that CFF also suffers from that malady common to twi offshoots.......refusal to answer honest questions from those they've pre-judged as "angry", or, "bitter".......or, worst of all ex-wayfers who no longer believe that vic taught much of anything that the true god would agree was "the truth of god's word"!!!..............so sad that one so young can already be so fearful of exposure to the possibility that others, who left twi decades ago, could be just as "right" as the phoney leaders who still cling to vic's perverted teachings as if they were indeed , "the truth"! too bad, nathan........i really was looking forward to a mutual learning experience with you........but, apparently, CFF has too much to fear about what you might uncover by honestly answering the questions i asked of you earlier on this thread you started!..............probably we'll never see you around here again!........just too much objective, critical thinking for a young CFF fellowlaborer to be "forced" to endure..........and, embrace!...........bon voyage!..........and,...............peace.

HEY, MOOSE!!!!..................HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!...........AND HEARTFELT GREETINGS FROM MR. PEABODY AND ALL US FOLKS STUCK IN THE WAYBACK MACHINE!!!.......................WE'RE NOT JUST SOME BUNCH OF FRACTURED FAIRY TALES YA KNOW!!!..................AND MANY MORE TO COME! (BIRTHDAYS THAT IS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKDgpxOHVhA...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QzLxqi53U...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBTxb6hkJbg...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirLTbfr23M...eature=related# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGmagY7ZYB4...eature=related#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdymlS0QEco...eature=related#

pre-christmas eve blues.......for all of you "seasonal affective disorder" sufferers!..........enjoy............hehehe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEDuvIdpHtc#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZUm7IKsmM#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYRzH10L2M...eature=related#

Thank you Skyrider, for bringing this thread back to the present.........and, Wordwolf, for your usual thorough, objective and informative "review" of the content in the excerpts which Skyrider posted!........though i had heard of this book, i had never been able to read any of it before today........i found the excerpts interesting, although, i must say, that Mrs. Wierwille's writings are definitely, imho, inordinately subjective, and skilfully edited so as to avoid recounting the many hundreds of "other details" which would offer the reader a much less flattering glimpse into vic's personal "revelatory journey" in his founding and building of twi.....an editing process absolutely necessary in order to avoid the obvious "missteps" rev. wierwille took repeatedly through those "early years of his ministry"!.......and continued until his last weeks of life on earth! at the risk of seeming unduly "harsh", or "coldly judgemental", i feel strongly that, there are several points which need to be made in order to provide a more honest, and perhaps more objective perspective to her accounts of those early years spent with her husband in establishing "his ministry".........for various reasons, dotsie has been granted a "free pass" from providing a complete, "no-holds-barred" record of vic's "ministry" to the world, and to his "kids".........i believe sympathy is a major factor behind that "free pass"..........all those who knew "the real vic", truly "felt sorry" for dotsie for being married to that man!.......many of us in the early, smaller way corps groups, saw firsthand how utterly mean, disrespectful and disdainful vic could be to his "first lady" at times!......and not only to her, but to her sister delores, her brother alford, and other of her closest relatives!..........discussion of these numerous incidents of overt verbal and emotional cruelty to dotsie and her "earthly family" were absolutely taboo!........NEVER public, and always only between very small groups of witnesses to them, in hushed tones and whispers!.........always looking around to make sure no one else was listening!........such discussions were tantamount to an attack on the holy grail of twi, and, no one who ever may have had such discussions ever wanted to be "found out".........the consequences were unimaginable! since dotsie is no longer living on this earth, perhaps a bit more transparency might be in order..........however, her three daughters and one of her sons are still living, and out of respect for them, and their children, there are still limits which compassionate, empathetic, and dignified human courtesy demand!.......and yet, in my opinion, dotsie, despite her gently sweet and reserved public persona, vividly exhibitted classic signs of a co-dependent enabler..........on 2 occasions, most poignantly embedded in my conscience, i was personally present when dotsie simply "broke down" emotionally, and burst into uncontrollable sobbing over her "situation" with vic........all i could do, as a young "thirty-something" clergyman, was simply hug her, and let her cry her eyes out on my shoulder!........there were no words i could speak, no actions i could take, other than that!.........one occasion was on the motorcoach, in countryside, IL, with 2 other corps grads present........the other was in the dining room of her house at hq, with only cora mae pe--rs present........those 2 incidents will forever haunt my memories of dotsie!............i will share no more details here.........nor do i feel i should.........but, those events happened, and all you have to go on is my word..........sorry. there is no question in my mind that, dotsie was an emotionally abused and beaten-down woman......abused and beaten-down by a truly meanspirited "husband", and "man of god"!.......there's also no question in my mind, that had she stood up to vic, she most likely could have spared many of his victims!........she, perhaps more than any other person alive, could have exposed vic, and warned the rest of us about the narcissistic, sociopath who was our "father in the word"!............but, for whatever deeply personal, dysfunctional reasons, she was never able to do so.........and, sadly, that is a big part of her own legacy..........a part which is glaringly absent from the pages of her book that have been posted here!........she, more than any other woman, knew the truth about her husband!.......but, the price she would have had to pay, the pain she would have had to endure, and the shame brought upon her children whom she truly, passionately loved, were far too great for her to bear!..........and, i don't think it was the material comforts she may have enjoyed in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, or the adulation from twi followers she hesitatingly accepted, or the public image vic painted of her as the example of a "virtuous woman" that kept her silent and submissive.......but, rather, the mother's love she had for her children, and her own psychoemotional dysfunction were the keys to her puzzling choices to allow vic's personal perversions in "faith and practice" to continue unchallenged............again, i surely can't say i know why she let vic "slide"...........perhaps i never will, in this life or the one yet to be lived......i only know that, unfortunately, she did let him "slide"..........a burden she took with her to her grave! i know karen, mary, sarah, and j.p. ........... i have not seen them, or spoken with them in 20 years!.........each one of them is "good people" in my book!........never had a negative interaction with any of them or their spouses in any of the times we may have shared together........and, i surely would never presume to tell them how they should remember their parents or the lives they chose to lead.........i can only "deal with" my own memories and experiences with dotsie and vic..........and they have to deal with their's!........they are the only folks who have the right to choose how they do so.........i wish them only god's best blessings in their lives and families..........and, i just want to share one more thing with them, and you greasespotters out there who may read this.........when i left twi hq, with my wife and 3 small children, on december 14, 1986.........after 11 long days under "house arrest", while geer and the "yak twig" figured out how to "handle" our departure,..........there was only a very small group of people there to say goodbye, and wish us well.........brian and suzi bli!ss, gondy and cathy depa@L@, johnny townsend, cora mae p&t&rs, and dorothea kipp wierwille.........the last time i ever saw her........again, with tears in her eyes, and some cookies for my children.......waving goodbye, saying, "bless you!, love you!".................................peace.