DontWorryBeHappy

rummy........the bass player is indeed victor wooten!......the moose is correct!.......he's been voted best jazz bassist for the last 12 years runnin' by bass player magazine!....he is one of 5 brothers, all musicians who are each as incredible at their instruments as he is on bass!......his brother, "futureman" is the percussionist in the flecktones. he plays a combination of a drum set and some instrument he invented himself, using the body of an old gibson flying v, which is a percussion instrument.......he plays it either by itself, in which case he stands up like playing a flying v, or it's flat on a stand like a pedal steel, and he plays that with his left hand while sitting at his drum set and playing the drums with his feet and right hand!!!........these guys are great to watch!!! bulwinkl.......loved spirit and the fairport convention!......thanks for the info on the other 2 posts i asked you about! A La!!!!!!!........the fiddle player for dave matthews is boyd tinsley.......been with dave from "the beginning"........the drummer is carter beauford........i've met them a couple of times, and the first time i talked with carter, i asked if i could count his hands and feet to make sure he had no extras!!!.......he blows me away every time i see him!!!.....i first saw dmb in 1992, before they were "huge"......and they have been one of my favorites ever since!.....that's about the same year i first saw the flecktones too......although bela fleck played with ricky scaggs, sam marsh and allison krauss in the newgrass revival prior to the formation of the flecktones!!!.......i used to get to see them all a couple of times a year back in the 90's, but, now the venues are too big for me to bother with the hassel of going to see them live......but dvd's sure are great!.....talkin' about great........watch this one!.............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35VEfTZ65s...eature=related#

Happy saturday to all you greasespot members and readers! many thanks to all who have taken the time to read this thread, and to all who have posted on it! your posts have been very interesting to read, and your continued input is both encouraged and appreciated! #4)--- how will your ministry's leadership function differently in the future? in your opinion, have you, or, do you need to change how your leadership functions as prophets, teachers, pastors , or evangelists? I purposely left out "apostles", from the above list, which is taken from ephesians. i did so because, imho, anyone designating themselves as "apostles" in TWI or its offshoots, usually does so within the context of vic's "definition" of this particular "gift ministry"........which, (and i'm paraphrasing here), basically propounded that, "an apostle is one called and appointed by god, to bring 'new light' to his generation. it may be 'old light', but it is new to the generation to which he is sent to speak". imho, this was a totally self-serving "definition", invented by vic to add to his mystique as the self-appointed "man of god for our day and time"!.......even though vic referred to himself as "the teacher", the "fact" that he was an "apostle" to our generation, was a prevalent underlying presumption held by most of the way corps and twi "leadership", at least during my time in twi which ended in 1986. . again, imho, anyone so designating himself has a major delusional ego-trip problem, so i purposely left this "gift ministry" out of my question in my desire to keep it as objective as possible. JOHN SCHOENHEIT-------john s. and i spent little, if any, of our conversation time discussing the "gift ministry" of teachers, pastors, and evangelists. most of our conversation was focused on prophets and prohecy. as i've posted here before, john s. firmly believes that STF's current doctrine regarding prophets is "biblically accurate", as presented in their book, "PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND UTILIZING THE MANISFESTATION OF PROPHECY". therefore, as posted previously, STF will continue to teach their current "right doctrine" concerning the "gift ministry" of a prophet, until, or unless, they discover any "new light" in their understanding of this "gift ministry" via their "research and study" of "the scripture". john s. stated several times that, STF, as a ministry, is "consistently and constantly open" to "new understanding of scripture" as it may be unfolded to them via their "research" of the bible and study of materials offered by "other ministries". they are "absolutely committed" to believing and teaching only that which is "accurate according to the scriptures", and will not resist any change in their doctrine and practice demanded by their research and study findings. allow me to quote from an article by john s., as posted on STF's truth or tradition website.....i've quoted this article previously on this thread. "the balance of truth and love: valuing right doctrine and right relationships": "As I have been reflecting on this lately, I know that nobody has more truth than God. God is the truth. When He had Scripture written, every syllable was true; and yet, I know that God has worked with me when I did not believe the truth on a lot of things. I see when I talk to other ministers and other denominations, that the Lord is working through them and people are getting saved and blessed under their ministries. What is very apparent to me, and I hope to you, is that God is working in them just as He is working in me! What does that tell me? It tells me that God values the relationship more than the truth that they hold. Last week I was studying the Word with Breit Paules and Shawn Mercer, and I saw something that changed a point of Scripture that I had believed for 35 years. This happened last week. We are changing all the time. We are getting better all the time! All of us think that we are learning more all the time; at least I hope that we are." so, john s. believes that the current STF doctrine on the "gift ministry" of a prophet is "biblically accurate", and requires no change at this time. in the "function" or "practical application" of this "gift ministry" in and by STF "servant/leadership", there have been "mistakes" made in the past. as posted previously,what the future function of this "gift ministry" in and by STF "servant/leadership" will be is not "certain" at this time. i can only assume that, somewhere in their plethora of tapes and publications, there exists some doctrine and/or teaching regarding teachers, pastors and evangelists, which you may read, and then decide for yourself if their "practice" of these "gift ministries" is indeed, "biblically accurate, or, if you think it needs to change. DAN GALLAGHER-------dan and i spent no time in our conversations discussing teachers, pastors and evangelists, so, there's nothing more to say here about that......sorry. JOHN LYNN-------john l. and i also spent no time in our conversations discussing teachers, pastors, or evangelists. based upon his e-mail to me of 11/25/07, which i quoted from (with permission from john l.), on my last post......i assume that john l. pretty much still holds to the understanding of the functions of these "gift ministries" as twi taught them. if you want to know more about what he believes regarding these "ministries", i suppose you can e-mail him or phone him at the address and phone number he's posted here at the greasespot. i apologize that i have no further info to post concerning answers to question #4, from the communications i have had with john s., dan g., and john l.. i guess those other "gift ministries" got lost in our discussions about prophets and prophecy! Thanks again to all you greasespotters for your time in reading this thread, and, for your continued input!...........................peace.

another one of my alltime faves!.....one of the best drummers i've ever seen......never once been disappointed at a live performance of these guys!!

one of my alltime, absolute favorites!!!.......these boys can play!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXHOyqHzupk#

belle.......never get me started on clapton!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOG5d6qgMZc#

gawd, rummy!!!........2 great ones there!.......last time i saw hot tuna live was november, 1969, fillmore east......thanksgiving weekend!!!.......it was an incredible 4 nights of concerts for me!!!!.......laura nyro and tim buckley at carnegie hall, thanksgiving nite......led zeppelin, madison square garden, friday nite..............hot tuna, quicksilver and the airplane, fillmore, sat nite......and, the incredible string band and pentangle, fillmore, sun nite!!!.........that was the thanksgiving after woodstock.........2 weeks before altamont, the day the 60's died!!!........thanks for the memories!!!!!..............great music!!!

for you, my sisters!........and you too, dmiller! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omfEgUuny1A...eature=related#

and the spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa8mSJ9worU...eature=related#

music---------the universal language of the human soul! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-MG8q9KbM&NR=1#

and this...........

wanna cry???..............hear this........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLZAWtdFhio...eature=related#

HEY, MOOSE!........YOU'RE RIGHT.....VERY THICK VOICE.....KINDA LIKE ANNIE LENNOX........WHO IS SHE???..........and............i gots to know who the vice-prez was who wrote all in the game!!!.................pray, tell?? excie!.......your cry made me cry as i listened to it again!...........and then........your songs were great.........stevie sure picked nice fellers to sing and play with, no???..............and the "elements"........one of the best shows i ever saw!!!.......1976, cobo arena, detroit........opener was deneice williams w/ our boys dave, skip and danny backin' her up......then E,W&F...........entrance and exit staged by the magician, doug hemming.......unforgettable nite!......thanks for bringin' it back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG7-KAt9Lb8...eature=related#

BACK OFF MAN!......HE'S A SCIENTIST!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynR94OLx1eY#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkDkMT4YTUU...eature=related#

SUDO!............everything you posted here cracked me up!!!..........definitely no silence at this end!...........DUDE......er, 'skuse me,.........DUDO...........next time i'm in memphis i have GOT to visit your personal posting library!!!!.............thanks for the holiday cheer!..................peace.

Hi to all you Greasespotters out there!!.........hope you're having a good holiday season so far, and getting all that shopping and shipping done! Thanks for your posts, Sunesis, Strange One, Mr.Hammeroni,and monsieur LeBump!....i re-read some of the letters and "prophecies" posted here on Captain Crunch's original "CES is in a Mess" thread, which was started almost one year ago, on december 16, 2006. i was still shaking my head in disbelief and disgust at the "mistakes" made by the CES/STFI "servant leadership" in their "practical application of the manifestation of prophecy", both corporate and personal. thanks again, Captain Crunch for having the guts to put out all that stuff!......and, thanks to elizabeth lynn for allowing her letters and the "prophecies" given to/about her to be posted. most likely, very little, if anything, would have come to light about how deviant the decision making processes at the CES/STFI BOD level had become.....nor would we have known what questions to ask, or what changes to look for, had we not had the greasespot cafe open and running, to provide a forum for those folks to "spill the beans"!!........thanks Pawtucket, for keeping this place open, and not being afraid to provide new menu items for us customers! Sunesis.....your post asks the most relevant and poignant questions regarding both the doctrine and the practice of "understanding and utilizing the manifestation of prophecy" as demonstrated by CES/STFI, now simply STF. i agree with the strange one, "great points sunesis"! and, tom strange, your questions are equally poignant and to the point.......mr.ham, and bumpy both find it difficult to accept the oh-so-long "learning curve" of destruction that is still bending and curving its way through the STF fellowships and events around the world!.......me too! #3)- what do you believe your ministry's responsibility is to your followers regarding an explanation of "what went wrong"? what have you done to correct any wrong doctrine or practice? JOHN SCHOENHEIT-------mr. schoenheit stated that, he is always more than happy to hear from any STF supporter, anytime, from anywhere, who has specific questions or concerns regarding the beliefs and practices propounded by STF. he stated that his personal "best" way of working with people who have questions, is via phone, or face-to-face conversation. he lives in a rural location where he is limited to dial-up internet access, which makes e-mail communication cumbersome and slow, and he's really not that "accomplished" at internet use. he prefers hearing the voice of the person with all the conversational and inflectional nuance voice communication affords the parties involved. he said he tends to delete e-mails once he's responded to them, so "follow-up" at a later date is usually unavailable since addresses and phone numbers are lost in cyberspace. he did not seem to have a problem talking with me or answering my questions on the phone. he did state that, through the years, there have been small numbers of "disgruntled followers" of CES/STFI who have remained "dissatisfied" with various "positions" taken or not taken by their ministry, and have left the ministry or remain critical of it. but, he feels that "this kind of thing" happens in all "churches or ministries", and is unavoidable when dealing with the public and/or "former followers". if people choose to remain disgruntled, there is really "no response that will satisfy them", but, he's always willing to try and resolve issues with ministry followers/supporters. he did provide a caveat regarding those who are "nasty" or, "obviously just want to argue", saying that he really does not have the time to engage in dialogue with folks who are determined not to really seek resolution or to restore a "right relationship" with CES/STFI/STF. he did state that he would like to "keep in touch" with me if i have any future questions or concerns about STF doctrine or practice. he stated that STF continues to enjoy "tremendous growth" around the world, and that he believes god will continue to bless their ministry and its supporters, as they remain "faithful to the word". as far as what they've done to correct any wrong doctrine or practice, the following specifics were discussed........the "prophetic council" was was disbanded in january, 2007, and there has been no such council in operation at STF throughout calendar year 2007. john said that the "prophetic council" was CES/STFI's response to the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks on the usa. he said, that , following 9/11, various CES/STFI followers from around the country and the world, wrote of "visions" and "dreams" they had experienced of "burning skyscrapers" or "airplanes crashing into buildings", prior to the actual events of 9/11. john said, "i'm not saying that we might have prevented 9/11 from happening, but if we had had a cleainghouse of some sort, to gather and evaluate such "visions", then perhaps we could have at least alerted our followers that our country was in need of fervent prayer, because of imminent threat". so, according to john s., that is the genesis of the CES/STFI "prophetic council". he also stated that this council's "function got out of hand", and was "overly relied upon" because of the previous "prophetic track record" of accuracy of some of its members. it was, therefore, disbanded in january, 2007. there are no plans to re-institute a "prophetic council" at this time. john also stated that, there has been a purposeful "de-emphasis" on the practice of "personal prophecy" by STF, throughout its "events and fellowships", in order to avoid wrong practice and repetition of "any mistakes" made in the use of this manifestation. what the future role of "personal prophecy" in STF, may be is not certain. but, STF will continue to offer its publication on prophecy, and will continue to teach the "right doctrine" contained therein. he also stated that, he does not believe that the greasespot cafe is an appropriate forum for STF to publicly address any previous CES/STFI "problems or mistakes". he feels that STF, through its various "newsletters, magazine and websites", has enough resources of its own to communicate whatever the BOD decides is necessary and proper, whenever it decides to do so. DAN GALLAGHER-------of the 3 men i spoke with, dan seemed the most eager to publicly address any and all "issues or past mistakes" of CES/STFI. he feels strongly that, STF has a "moral and spiritual responsibility" to do so. he is frustrated that the current lawsuit against him by the graeser's constrains him from being able to handle many of the "specific issues" he feels need to be addressed now. i take dan at his word. and, i too am frustrated by the selfishness (imho) of the graeser's insistence upon pursuing this foolish lawsuit, instead of allowing STF to deal with the many isssues raised by the various CES/STFI practices promoted and in use, while the graeser's and their supporters were "running the show". i believe dan could be and would be doing alot more publicly, were it not for the lawsuit. again, that's just my opinion after talking with dan. JOHN LYNN-----of the 3 men i spoke with, john l. seems the most retiscent at publicly addressing the "past mistakes" made by CES/STFI. imho, that could be due to the fact that, there are so many "issues" involving john l.'s past with CES/STFI splattered across cyberspace over the last ten years, that, it is just too overwhelming right now for him to handle them all publicly. he re-married elizabeth this past spring, has his SAT prepartion classes to promote and run, and he travels quite a bit, teaching for and promoting STF. since he has no "official" position currently with STF, he has been more "vocal" about the various "issues" raised by the numerous threads regarding the "crisis" at CES/STFI posted here at the greasespot. but, under the advice of legal counsel, he now feels he must "cut back" on his public comments regarding "all of this", because he also is being sued by the graeser's at this time. however, he has granted me permission to post specific parts of his recent (11/25/07) e-mail to me, which may shed some light on his "answer" TO QUESTION #3. JOHN L. feels very strongly that, the greasespot is not an appropriate venue on which he should post anything. despite the posts he himself has made here, or those posted by others containing information written by him, (i.e. his letter to mark graeser of december, 2006), he feels he has borne the brunt of numerous "vicious", "mean-spirited", personal attacks here at the greasespot, and also from e-mails, letters or phonecalls from greasespot members to the address and phone number he posted here. as many of you have read from him before, here at the spot, he does not believe he is responsible to respond to anyone who refuses to use their real name when communicating with him. quotes from john lynn's e-mail to me, dated 11/25/07: "I was most blessed to read in your last email that you want to be pro-truth and transparency re: ministries with their roots in TWI. I believe you, and that brings up a lot for me. First, I think you will agree that there was nowhere else on earth that you, I, et al, could have heard the Word we did in TWI. In PFAL, we were in the right place at the right time. The enemy saw the theretofore unparalleled conjunction of biblical truth (TWI was by far the most significant unitarian, dispensational movement we know of since the 1st century church) and young, capable, energetic, and committed men and women like you and me, and he used every means to destroy TWI and its people." "In the 20+ years since, I think I've had as good a vantage point as anyone from which to view the development of ministries begun by ex-Way folks. Some have abandoned critical elements of the faith (the administrations in Scripture, for one) and gone to planets far, far away. Others have, in my opinion, evolved into pretty much a TWI replica run by decent people who do care about God's people. I cannot say that they love God and people more or less than we do, but I can say that I know no one has more right doctrine to offer than we do." "On the practical side, DWBH, I sure hope you know me well enough to know that I would not be a part of anything that was in any way abusive, dishonest, clandestine, or in any way ungodly, and I think you may know JS well enough also. If not, trust me, he would not countenance anything like that either. Nor would Dan Gallagher, and that is why they stood against the ---------- when they realized what was going on. I believe we are without guile." "Furthermore, we long ago realized the privilege that was ours to hear the Word as it hasn't been taught since the first century, and we have not taken lightly our responsibility to steward it, build upon it, and make it known. We also saw what happened in TWI and are committed not to repeat any of the errors thereof. Our Father has been faithful to help us touch the hearts of thousands of people around the world--and that number is growing exponentially." "OK, so I put myself in your shoes, given what you said, and I assume that you must still hold to the Word as your bottom line for faith and practice. If so, I think I can make a case that your present "wild card" status isn't serving you if you want to best carry out your commitment to the Body. I don't know what you are accomplishing on Gspot, but I do know that from your current perspective, you have little understanding of what STF is all about. The Word clearly says that each of us is to be closely involved with others of like mind and heart, for the sake of the Lord and the Gospel." "During the past 20 years, I have heard countless excuses from ex-Way folks as to why they want no part of another "organization," etc. I can understand their pain, but if I am to take the Word seriously, none hold water, biblically speaking, nor will they at the Bema. You know what the Word says about how the Body is to function. I love you, and I'd like to hear why you think the best use of your time is posting on Gspot rather than getting up close and personal with us and seeing if what I say is true. At least then you could be a firsthand witness, one way or the other." "I don't know if you have read/heard any of what we teach, but why not check it out? Why not call John and/or Dan and get to know their hearts?" as you all know, despite their refusal to respond here at the greasespot, i have now called john s., dan gallagher, and john l.. i am doing my best to post what they have permited me to post on this thread.........and to do so honestly, objectively and straightforwardly. i am purposely trying to "withhold" my personal, long-considered opinions regarding these reponses until after i have posted these responses here. then, separately, i will post my own thoughts, in light of the phone conversation i had with john lynn in january,2007, so as to avoid any confusion as to who said what, when, etc...........i am doing my best to accurately present the responses they've given me within the framework of my agreeement with these 3 men. i am taking my time because i don't want to screw it up!!............so, thanks to all you wonderful greasespotters for your patience and for taking the time to read this really long thread!!!..............................peace.

BEST WISHES AND GOD'S BLESSINGS TO YOU EX10 ON THIS ANNIVEWRSARY OF THE DAY OF YOUR BIRTH!!!!................HAPPY 55TH!!!!!....................PEACE.

Hello to everybody following the "long and winding road" of this thread!.........thanks for your posts, Belle, Mr.Hammeroni, and Tom Strange!.........i agee that the "learning curve" in STF for the "practical application" and operation of "personal prophecy" seems somewhat lengthy.........john s. did make a distinction between what he termed "corporate prophecy" and "personal prophecy".......corporate being a message from or for god to a body or group of believers and personal being just that, personally to a specific individual.......but, one of my problems with the examples of david and nathan, and paul and agabus, being "obvious" examples of " personal prophecy" in the bible is, that both david and paul were not just "average individuals" who were the objects of personal instruction or information from god.......david was the king of israel!.....the situation nathan was prophesying to david about was far more important to the kingdom of israel as a whole, than just a sin david committed in his "personal life"!!.........the ramifications of sin in david's life affected every person in the nation of israel because of david's position as israel's king!.......within the context of that position, david really had no "personal life" that was of no concern to every member of the tribes.......everything he did, said and thought in his heart had an impact on the legitimacy and righteousness of his reign, imho!.....so, god's prophetic reproof to david via nathan was of great import and impact not only to david personally, but also to the entire nation over which he was king.......a nation comprised of god's chosen people!!......david's responsibility, and accountability, was not merely "personal", but rather "national", because of his position as king........so also with paul......paul was god's apostle to the nations!.......his entire life revolved around his calling by god and jesus christ to preach the revelation of jesus christ to the whole world with particular emphasis of lifelong service to the church of the body of christ..his life was "not his own"......if he was wrong about going to jerusalem, it was not just a personal mistake,......it was a mistake that would affect the entire church........as i said, just one of my problems.......... #2) what is your ministry's current position regarding karen ann graeser's understanding and application of the "gift ministry" of a prophet? what have you learned or "unlearned" from mark and karen ann? JOHN SCHOENHEIT-------Mr. schoenheit again referred to the STF book on prophecy, reiterating that he and the rest of the STF BOD believe that, their doctrine regarding the "gift ministry" of a prophet is "biblically sound and accurate". there are, however, "major disagreements" among the current BOD members as to the "practice" of "personal prophecy", and the "gift ministry" of a prophet, as carried out by mrs. graeser during the recent past,.......particularly calendar year 2006. these "disagreements" to date, remain "irreconcilable", and were among the issues that led to the personnel change in the position of president of STF in january, 2007. apparently, it is steve resner and mark graeser who disagree with the rest of the BOD regarding the "practical application" of "personal prophecy" and the "gift ministry" of a prophet in the church as "operated" by mrs. graeser, and others in STF who agree with her "current practice". STF is not currently being sued by the graeser's, nor is john schoenheit. however, john s. and i agreed that, it remains a "possibility" that this could change, since the pursuit of the current lawsuits against jeff b., john lynn, and dan gallagher, is totally the prerogative, and in the "control" of the graeser's, and it is ultimately up to them as to whether or not these lawsuits will continue, and if new lawsuits will be initiated against STF and/or mr. schoenheit. in light of this, john s. and i agreed to suspend any further discussion, at this time, regarding mrs. graeser's practice of "personal prophecy" and her "operation of the gift ministry" of a prophet. john s. did say that, STF will continue to teach what their book declares to be "correct doctrine" concerning the manifestation prophecy, and will continue to encourage STF supporters to "improve" the practical application of this doctrine so as to avoid repeating "mistakes" made in the past, and to eliminate any "over-reliance" upon the use of this manifestation, and/or the "gift ministry" of a prophet. DAN GALLAGHER-------dan is very limited as to what he can discuss about anything involving the graeser's, due to their current ongoing lawsuit against him. he feels strongly that, once the lawsuit is settled, and the legal boundaries regarding what he may state publicly are established, he will freely discuss whatever he is allowed to with anyone who has "questions or concerns". dan and i also agreed that, the ultimate "control" of the status of the current lawsuit against him rests with the graeser's, and whatever court will have jurisdiction over the case. JOHNLYNN-------obviously, john lynn's letter of december, 2006, to mark graeser, ( an editterd version of which is posted here at the greasespot cafe), and letters to and from elizabeth lynn posted here at the greasespot, and the "personal prophecies" to and about elizabeth (also posted here at the greaespot), contain a great deal of information about john l's "position" regarding karen ann graeser's "understanding and application of the 'gift ministry' of a prophet". beyond that which is already a matter of "public record" here at the greasespot, john l., under the advice of legal counsel, is not able to discuss anything further, publicly, at this time. obviously, the lawsuits being pressed by the graeser's against jeff b., john l., and dan g., are putting quite a damper on what these men feel they can discuss publicly about this second question i asked. it really is a shame, imho, that the graeser's have placed their "personal" feelings above STF's responsibility to share all the truths and facts about this crucial issue to their ministry, with the supporters of their ministry!........again, imho, their choice to pursue these lawsuits against their brethren is not faithful to biblical instruction regarding the proper handling of such "doctrinal disputes" between elders and "servant/leaders" in the christian church........seems to me that, each side should just come out and say what they believe the points of disagreement between them are, and then let their followers choose whom they will believe and follow!!........sure would save a lot of everybody's time and money, dontcha think???..........but, again,......that's just me....... thanks again to all those who have taken the time to read this thread.............question #3 tomorrow.....................peace.

raf..............just noticed this thread today...........it is a frightening diagnosis...........an emotional roller coaster.........i am absolutely with you and diana and your wonderful family in prayer...........there really is no single "right" behavior for any of you......you're all doing the right thing by pulling together in love and prayerful solidarity with your beloved sister........continue celebrating her life with her and each other........love to you, brother, and...............peace.

danny!..............brought yourself here, i wanna told you something!!!.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!...........hopin' you'll have a good crawfish etouffe and at least one ice cold turbo dog before your day is done!!!!........................peace, bro!

Hello to all my fellow patrons, and members of the greasespot cafe! Hello to all who visit here to read what the manager of this fine establishment has provided in the many, varied forums on the menu! Hello to all the current and former members of CES/STF who visit here, and/or, are members of the greasespot cafe cyber-community! And, hello, one final time to you, Jeff Blackburn and John Lynn!! I started this thread just over 2 months ago, as a result of a phone call i received from john lynn in early january, 2007. when john called me, he wanted to fill me in on what was going on with him and CES/STF at the time. he said that, the amount of info was too much for him to cover in one brief phone conversation, so he asked me to come to the greasespot and read everything they (referring to himself and other members of CES/STFI) had posted here, and then, if i did'nt mind, to get back to him and let him know my thoughts regarding it all. as i've explained previously, on this thread, due to more pressing, personal circumstances in my life at that time, i did not get around to reading all the material to which john directed me here, until mid-august, 2007. at that time, after spending 3 weeks reading all the various threads and posts here, in the "CES In Crisis" forum........a forum started by Pawtucket in response to the volume of posts and views concerning all the info posted here about CES/STFI by Captain Crunch initially, and jeff blackburn, john lynn, and other members of CES/STFI...........i called john lynn and asked him for pawtucket's phone number, so that i might ask paw, what, if any, arrangements were made with jeff, john lynn, and CES/STFI, about the forum he provided for them here at the greasespot. Paw was gracious enough to answer all my questions, and then he invited me to become a member here, in order to post my thoughts about all of this right here at the greasespot. I was a poster at waydale, and i became involved directly with Extwi's lawesuit against TWI and it's then board of trustees, until it was settled out of court by TWI......ultimately leading to martindale's resignation as TWI's president in april, 2001, and, eventually, to his being "let go" by TWI in september, 2001. i was also an early member of the greasespot cafe, but, after extwi's legal victory, and martindale's ignominious departure from TWI, i "retired" from the spot and just lived my life, enjoying my family and professional life. during my time at waydale and the very early days of the greasespot, i was inundated with phone calls, e-mails, visitors, etc., because of my previous "high profile" corps assignment in TWI, and the info i was able to post at waydale. that's why i did not want to start posting again here at the greasespot. i did not want to put myself in the position of being "overwhelmed" with communications and questions again. but, i realized that, because everything john lynn asked me to read was "published" here at the greasespot, the greasespot was really the only "right" place for me to respond to john lynn's initial request! so, i agreed to join and begin posting, if pawtucket did'nt mind me being "anonymous", so as to avoid undo attention (both positive and negative) to my posts, because of the unavoidable "name recognition" my posts might engender. i wanted to be read and treated just like anyone else here at the spot...........and, i still do..........so, i will keep my "handle", Don'tWorryBeHappy, ........and whatever anonymity it affords me..........i sincerely hope, that my decision regarding my "identity", does not offend or bother any of the other members of our greasespot cafe community. It has been my opinion, that jeff b., john lynn, and the leadership of CES/STFI, have an ethical responsibility to post answers to my initial october 1, 2007 post, on this same thread, here at the greasespot cafe. that is still my opinion tonight. however, that is not the opinion of jeff b., or john lynn. nor is it the opinion of john schoenheit, or dan gallagher. i have spoken personally with john lynn, regarding this thread. at his behest, i have also spoken personally with john schoenheit and dan gallagher about this thread. my conversations with each of them have been amicable, mutually respectful, and, honest. i would still prefer that they speak for themselves here at the greasespot.........but, we have agreed to disagree on that point.........all 3 have, however, agreed to allow me to quote specific parts of our conversations, and, john lynn has agreed to allow me to quote specific parts of a personal e-mail he sent me recently. i have agreed to do so honestly, and, within certain "constraints" forced upon us by the ongoing lawsuits being pursued individually against john lynn, jeff blackburn and dan gallagher by mark and karen ann graeser. they (john l., john s., and dan) each have trusted me to do as i promised, and i will therefore, abide by the terms we have agreed upon. i will not breach or betray that agreement. i hope i have earned the trust of my fellow geasespotters, that i will post the facts pertinent to this thread, as nspoken to me by john s., john l., and dan, within the framework of the constraints we have agreed upon. i have not, as of this writing, spoken with jeff b. i apologize if i have offended any of my fellow greasespotters with this thread. i have done my best to encourage these men to post for themselves here, but, as i will explain, it is their belief, that they cannot, or should not post here at this time. i will try to bring closure to this thread. i will try my best to spread out this closure over several posts, so as to avoid one long, huge, post that "bores to death" any and all who have an interest in reading the answers given me by them, and, my final conclusions and thoughts regarding those answers. thank you in advance to all of you who may choose to read........... i will begin with the answers to my questions in post #1 of this thread, as given to me by the 3 people i have personally spoken with. i'll be happy to respond as i can to any questions you may have as we go along............SO,............HERE GOES............ #1) what is your ministry's current teaching regarding the use or misuse of "personal prophecy"...... JOHN SCHOENHEIT-----mr. schoenheit believes that STF's current position on "personal prophecy" is biblically and doctrinally accurate, as outlined in their book, "PROPHECY: UNDERSTANDING AND UTILIZING THE MANIFESTATION OF PROPHECY". he freely admitted that "mistakes have been made" in the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of their doctrine, and the practice of personal prophecy by some at the BOD level of STF. he feels the mistakes in practice were the result of a normal learining curve in the proper use of this manifestation, among both the leadership of STF, and the general membership. he likened it to the process of normal human growth and development in areas like learning to walk, talk, read, spell, etc., mistakes are part of the normal growth and learning process, and, though painful at times, are usually "unavoidable" when learning anything "new"........he did not come across as flippant to me, about mistakes made, nor did he seek to avoid discussion of specific mistakes, or necessary corrections. he appears to be quite willing to discuss specifics with anyone who wants to do so with him, and says he would be happy to speak with any STF follower who calls him with with such specifics, and/or questions. i take him at his word. but, i am not a follower of STF, nor do i believe their doctrine concerning "personal prophecy"......thus, i personally have no specifics regarding "personal prophecy" to discuss with him, other than those raised by some of the info posted here, regarding the personal prophecies given to or concerning, elizabeth lynn. he did concede that mistakes were made by various personal prophecy practitioners regarding mrs. lynn, but i did not discuss that at length with him..........nor do i feel that discussing prophecies concerning elizabeth lynn on this thread would be proper for me.....but, as i said, if you would like t do so with mr.schoenheit, he says he will take your call.......so, take him up on it and let us know what happens, if you choose to. john s., did say that STF will continue to teach its doctrine concerning "personal prophecy", and will continue to work on getting "better and better" at the proper practice of it......he also conceded that the term "personal prophecy" does not appear in the bible, but he believes that the practice is obvious in scripture, and used examples like nathan and david, and agabus and paul......again, i personally do not agree that these records, (nor the others he listed rapidly) are indeed, examples of "personal prophecy" in the bible.......but, thats just me.....he did express to me that he thinks there was an "over-reliance" upon the use of "personal prophecy" as practiced by some at the STF BOD level, due to their previous track record of "accuracy", but feels this is being addressed, and will continue to be addressed further in "due time"........i cannot go into further specifics at this time, in this public forum......... DAN GALLAGHER-------mr. gallagher is currently a defendant in a lawsuit, which restricts both what he can discuss about personal prophecy and what i can post about our discussion concerning the question. he too believes, that the STF doctrine is accurate regarding "personal prophecy", but also feely admits that "mistakes in practice" have been made. he believes that these mistakes must be addressed by STF leadership with their followers, but this has to be put on a "back burner" until various legal issues raised by the lawsuit against him, are settled.......that's all i can post about this at tis time. JOHN LYNN-------john lynn is also a defendant in a lawsuit, individually, and separately from dan, and jeff b.......they are not "co-defendants".......he is retiscent about discussing much at all, "publically", about the many things posted on the web about his private life......plus, according to john, there are now many constraints upon him because of this lawsuit, that prevent him from being able to "publically" answer or post anything regarding the numerous issues raised by his letter posted hear at the greasespot last december. he too believes that STF doctrine concerning "personal prophecy" is " absolutely biblically accurate", as in outlined in the aforementioned book. he has given me permission to post here, a quote from an e-mail he sent me on 11/25/07, which follows: "neither john [schoenheit] nor i read Gspot. The Lord knows our hearts, he knows the investment He has made in our ministry due to our faithfulness to hold fast to the truth of the Word, and we count on him to move us through the current situation and open doors for us to share the marvelous truth we are privileged to know. If and when the time comes that we think it is best to address the issue with those involved with STF, we will, but most likely not on Gspot. Very few of our supporters are swayed by anything on GS, and we have seen little fruit from any involvement there." john lynn is not a current member of the STF BOD. he is a "private citizen", who promotes STF in his "spare time". he teaches often at various STF events and fellowships, and contributes articles and teaching tapes to their magazines and on-line store. he has no "official" leadership role in STF at this time......... as others have quoted him on this thread, he is willing to talk with you personally if you choose to contact him. my questions as posted to him on this thread, still stand. but, due to his current legal situation, that's all i can post at this time. OKAY!!!................that's enough for tonight!!........more will follow during the next several days..........to all my fellow greasespotters, from the bottom of my heart to yours...................peace.............DWBH.