socks

Get a big stick. No, a BIG stick. :D--> Things that have worked for me: Focus, Mold and Move Focus on my anger. Recognize it, look at in the face, get real, 'embrace the horror'. Settle down and 'distill it' into some kind of order. What's going on, why, how'd it get that way, where do I fit in to the picture? Is this something I can do something about? If so, what? Mold my anger. Take what I came up with and form some kind of plan, steps, action I want to take about the situation. Get that energy and emotion channeled in to action. If it's going to take time I can be more patient now because I have some idea of what's going on in my head. Move on and get with it. At this point I've taken my hostility and made it something constructive. To that I have to accept that whatever was bugging me may not change, but I'm not feeling powerless or under it's control. I can have some degree of confidence that I'm living true to myself. If the opportunity is there to do something I'm ready. Or, I've dumped the whole thing. Maybe I've realized it's something I can't do anything about. Maybe I was wrong, took something the wrong way. I cool off much easier that way. I'm a firm believer in holding my tongue when I get p.o.'d about something, meaning I don't automatically turn red and let it fly. I may still act but I try to do so in a measured way, take a breath, give it a sec. One phrase I use all the time for years now that verbally sets up an even playing field in a situation where there's an argument - "Okay, let me run this back by you, here's the way this looks to me. Tell me if I'm wrong but to me it appears that..." I use words to that effect but I always include "you tell me if I'm wrong". I force myself to leave that door wide open in a confrontation so that the other person, hopefully, will give what I say a listen and not automatically shut me out and wait for the next opening to fire back at me AND I'm forcing myself to recognize that my anger may be misplaced. Indeed I MAY be wrong, and if so we're going to find out. It helps me because so often I see what I see and that's that, ain't no way I'm wrong. If I had a nickel for everytime that didn't work out I'd be rolling in the dough. ;)--> Sometimes it works for me, sometimes it don't. :)-->

Those screw-on lids for jars you guys came up with are crazy man!

Conspiracy theories - remember the former senator, PFAL grad, whose campaign manager had the bright idea to superimpose the word 'sex' over his picture during his re election campaign? Real subliminal and secret-like so it wouldn't be 'noticed' but would get the message across that short, pudgy politicians are the sexiest thing since butter? Oops. It's fun to riff, Jonny. I don't want to hurt people's feelings though. You don't either I'm sure. There are many things I've not posted here in jest about TWI that only a few would 'get' because somewhere in the back of my brain there's a place that says 'no'. They're absolutely 100% true and some include me in the joke, but there's a slight chance that they could drop a bomb on someone in the process and I just don't want to do that. Why do that? It's not necessary. The downfall of any conspiracy theory involving the Way though is that the Way has failed so miserably. It's like watching a movie - "The 3 Stooges Take Over the World!" You know going in it's going to be messy and there's going to be some bonks and splats, but you also know that the Stooges aren't going to take over anything, they're too dumb. They'll end up making fools of themselves and be no better than when they started and the ending will just be a deflated payoff of them poking each other in the eyes or something, "the end". The Way's story is more serious than that but the end result looks pretty much the same to me.

And I wonder what our favorite political dynasty was doing at the time, you know... Bush? There's a connection there. I just know it.

'reasonable' is grk. 'logikos' = 'of the word. It's used in 1 Pet. 2:2 also in 'sincere milk of the word'. It's really pretty straight ahead in meaning in Romans I think - ... dadadah, 'which is your service of the word'. Romans 12 then goes on with saying 'having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us'...whatever those are, go for it. Do it. Have fun. Diversity is inherent, integral in the body of Christ according to Paul. It's not a product of human organization but rather a quality of the 'members'. By controlling the contributions and activities of the members from a single one-person point of 'leadership' it strangles the unique contributions that all of the other parts can make. If I follow the drift of God in Christ in us, etc. the primary purpose of 'leadership' in the group is to help each member grow up to their own highest potential. That seems to be what Paul is saying and 'exhorting' in Rom. 12:1. I agree, Way World was rife with FlatButtitis, a seldom discussed physical deformity that occurs as a direct result of sitting in a brown folding chair for more than 1 hour at a time listening to someone drone on about something you've already heard 100 times before. After you've heard it 10 times, that's enough for crimneezsake. Let's do something.

Merry Christmas! We've got some sets from different years that we made with the kids and we've kept a few of each. Some flour and water paste ones. Couple of photo ornaments from about 12-13 years ago. More recent photo one (who's that old guy in the back??? ;)--> ) Little Winnie the Pooh on a sled. Tigger. Mickie. Invader Zim. A bunch of the traditional rounds ones that are kind of cool designs. I can see 'em from here. The ones that always bring a lump to me t'roat are the ones that we made in a couple years when we didn't have a lot of dough and we managed to scrap enough together to get a tree and we made our own ornaments. :)--> Still don't have much dough- --> :D--> Watzupwiddat? We've still got a couple of big tykes tucked away in bed sawing logs. Full of holiday snacks (erp!) from yesterday. It's a quiet morning. Cats are in, cheerily cleaning themselves. Merrrrrry Christmas!

Well, we could also consider the warning of Jesus in regards to harming the "little ones", those more vulnerable, weaker, who are like little children: 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Hmmm. Jesus recognizes that there will be offences - snares or "traps", the temptations and weakness that will cause a person to act in offense but His verdict in regards to hurting the weak and vulnerable who believe is: a long walk off a short pier. I'd like to see rehabilitation. I'd want to sort through the causes and effects and treatments and counselling. Jesus doesn't take that stance. In fact He sounds a little pi$$ed at the idea. In fact you could say He points out the consequences would be so severe it would be better if your a$$ would be fried. Numbers, statistics, media coverage are all secondary to the fact that the actions themselves are unacceptable. To paraphrase Jesus - "$hit like this happens and sometimes life sucks but WOE to you if you're the one giving the $hit". .........this guy needs to continue his ministerial duties? I think he may need to buy a waterproof vest. Jesus's words are a warning if nothing else. I believe in a God who is merciful and forgiving. But I am of the mind that the bible teaches this is something a person can't do and expect it to be ignored - hurt His people - specifically those who are weak, younger, less able to defend themselves, "little ones". This thread is in regards to sexual abuse. All a person has to do is break it down into what that's really talking about to realize it's wrong, bad, and individually worthy of serious consequence. It has nothing to do with spin, everything to do with reality.

Hmmm, I dunno What the Hay. I may have missed something in the thread then - is there something that says this guy didn't know the children and that this was a spontaneous crime of "opportunity" rather than consistent access? I think the media reports the stories and they're sensational because - fortunately - these events still elicit an extreme reaction. Any parent, adult, human being, who hears about children being abused by an adult is going to be revolted by that. Granted a child always needs protection and supervision but if the public wasn't informed about a risk and it remained unknown they wouldn't be able to prepare for it as well. The TWI connection puts that part of it in perspective, I think. Ministers, pastors, priests, etc. have a unique connection to people, one that carries a certain amount of trust. Many people would expect that a person in that station would be there because they have something to offer, not take. One of the sad side effects is that it's becoming harder and harder for a person who wants to do good to do good in certain situations because trust as a whole is so decimated. Look at someone wrong and they're liable to shoot you or Taz you or call 911. Sure, a church may not know what one of their people is doing. We can assume that it isn't the intent of a church to hire and give opportunity to people that are going to hurt the congregation. But it seems to have become like alcoholics getting jobs in liquor stores. Frankly I can't think of anyone I know, me included, that places the majority of responsibility for treating or counselling abusers on "the church". In fact we seem to be finally waking up to the fact that a church isn't above the law of the land and that simply because a person tries to aspire to a higher calling and fails that doesn't give him or her some kind of special dispensation to do as they please and hope for the best. Criminal behavior is so because it threatens the good of individuals in society. Society should have a part in determining how to remedy that. One of the worst crimes I can think of is one that takes advantage of children because children always have less capability to protect themselves. They rely on adults to care for them.

Some more stats on this topic are here compiled from the U.S. Dep't. of Health and Human Services. They've got this interesting information: --- Men and women serving time in the nation's prisons and jails report a higher incidence of abuse as children than the general population.7 More than a third of women in the nation's prisons and jails reported abuse as children, compared with 12% to 17% for women in the general population. About 14% of male inmates reported abuse as children , compared with 5% to 8% of men in the general population. For the data compiled from 2001, overall stats for the U.S. population included- Types of maltreatment included: Neglect (including medical neglect) 59% Physical Abuse 19% Sexual Abuse 10% Psychological Maltreatment 7% Other* 19.5% --- And this: Based on approximately 3 million reports per year. An estimated 903,000 children were victims of abuse and neglect in 2001 (cases substantiated by child protective service agencies.) Nine in 10 Americans polled regard child abuse as a serious problem, yet only 1 in 3 reported abuse when confronted with an actual situation. --- I don't have any kind of grasp on what's going on with this topic, but it looks like a much more complex and widespread problem than it appears on the surface. The site quotes that out of approx. 3 million reported incidents per year, nearly a million cases were substantiated by "child protective service agencies". If 10 per cent of those were sexual abuses that's about 100,000 per year. There's a lot of stats that apply to that number - "Among rape victims less than 12 years of age, 90% of the children knew the offender, according to police-recorded incident data. Frequently, the person who sexually molests a child is also a child." I guess that could mean it's a family member or friend. I've only done a little reading but it doesn't sound like situations like the one posted in this thread are "rare". In fact, if I just counted off the top of my head the number of 6:00 News stories on child care, priest, church related, etc. abuses cases that make the news, the number is pretty high and those are just the "big" stories that make the news. It's really sad. The one thing a parent has to do when they have a child is make every effort to protect them and raise them as best they can. There's a lot of pressures and risks in even the best of lives. Parents need all the help they can get, whether it's family, community, school, church. It's really hard when the risk comes from the support systems they try to trust but it seems to happen more than I'd ever expect.

I'm sorry, I just recovered :D--> :D--> :D--> There's something just very Steven Wrightish about the way that reads, Shaz. " Merry Christmas! Santa's on his way!" (reponse) "Uh, Santa's like...... dead, dude". I think our kids heard about Santa Claus from TV and friends, the whole Santa thing. They liked the idea of presents. My son didn't give Santa Claus much thought but I remember my daughter got quiet when they started talking about it one year, looked concerned. They were little, about 4 and 5 years old or so. She asked "is he really going to come in our house at night when we're asleep?" I realized the idea was kind of scaring her, some guy sneaking in at night. So we explained gently that Santa wasn't a real guy, he was like an idea, a symbol, of giving and sharing and happy stuff. Like buying a present for someone and surprising them with it, yae! But no, Santa Claus wasn't a real person. It seemed to be a relief, actually. --- I wanted to add, fast forward to when she's 16. She got a Christmas season job at the local Mall helping at the Santa display, where they have the Santa dude all dressed up and she worked for the photo company that took pictures, as one of Santa's "elves". Had the costume, all of that, really cute but it was very demanding with all the children, frustrated parents in long lines, all of that. So at one point I asked her how it was going and she got this look...and sighed and shook her head. "One of the kids peed on Santa tonight and another one threw up when their Mom was yelling at Santa about something she was mad about. Merry Christmas". She survived. ;)-->

sweet!

I'm with you on that, Vickles. I think your concern is legitimate. If I knew anyone who said they followed this group with any degree of seriousness I'd be concerned. For a lot of these bands and musicians it's a business and a way to make money. ICP has never been signed to a major label which says something because major labels are into making money. They've been with independents and now have their own company. I've read reviews of their live concerts that say they stink, it's just a big farce. For their fans it's an event, when the 'real hardcore' death metal fans come out of the woodwork. To be there is a statement in itself. "I was at the ICP concert!" It's like a badge of honor. All these guys come and go but the levels are so cranked up now it's horrendous. I see that they're just taking advantage of youth, it's frustrations and struggles. Anyone who can listen to a song about a guy who chops people's heads off and keeps them around to play with and thinks it's okay though is troubled. I don't like slasher flicks, I don't like slasher music either and that's what it's like. Demented, gory weirdness. Meanwhile they're rakin' in the dough.

Insane Clown Posse, yeah, there lyrics take violence to new pornagraphic levels. As if that's what we needed. There's quite a story behind them vickles, although it's hard to tell what's schtick and what's real. They've been at it since the early 90's believe it or not. Like a lot of bands (there's only 2 guys in their 'posse') they're both hated by most of the music industry and loved by some metal/rap fans - the juggolo and juggette fan club "family". The idea behind the band is that the leader says he had a dream years ago in which he entered in to the "Dark Carnival" and was shown 6 playing cards which all had a different symbol on the face. Those symbols appear around each album they've released and are the impetus for the songs. According to him that's what he was supposed to do in his dream and once the 6th card was finished in an album it would signal "the end", the Apocalypse. Which sounds like a heck of a marketing plan, there's a lot you can wrap around that concept and these guys are like any other hustling band, they've got merchandise up the ying yang to sell. It hasn't taken over the world by storm but they do have several gold albums and one platinum. They're grass-roots guerilla marketers, tour all the time, work work work. So if someones likes them there's lots of stuff to get in to, buy, do, etc. etc. So the kicker is, they finally released #6. "The Wraith" closes with a song titled "The Unveiling" in which they take several minutes to say okay, here's the deal, no more coded lyrics here's what we're really saying and all about.........and they say their real message is "believe in God" and that they "believe in God" and yada yada yada. The chorus closes with bits from all their albums and them singing "We ain't sorry that we tricked you!" What that means is anybody's guess, but I guess it might all be some sort of bad joke. I only hopd that their fans get the joke and that there aren't a lot of disappointed jugglettes out there about to do a "Dimebag Darrell-you ruined my life!" on them. I suspect that most of their fans use their music as a way to express their own frustrations. Whatever the case, they've taken gross to a new level. I don't know much about the whole fan thing though, maybe because I'm an old guy or just can't get past the lyrics and ideas. I don't get where it's coming from. My kids have known about the band for years but didn't like them. Guess that's a good thing. :D-->

Mark, I agree, the laws of the land should apply evenly across the board regardless of religious beliefs. Garth, I've pondered that. I think what we know of the early Christian church and it's first couple generations could qualify, in principle. God and Jesus Christ were at the center of the people's faith. If - the faith was led primarily by the rules to love God first and your community/fellow man/neighbor second, you'd have the basis for a system where the good of each person would be mutually sought by each one. I think that would naturally lead to discussion, consideration, debate and ultimately the "vote". In other words if you and I were truly concerned about not only what was good for us/me but what was also good for us/you we'd have to allow for if not compromise, equity in how we lived. We'd have to 'enforce' tolerance and balance at least to some degree. (although the 'enforcement' would have a premise - to love God first and others as we would ourselves). In that kind of religious community led by the teachings of Jesus there'd be an attempt to maintain our own ideals while recognizing the benefit of allowing other to maintain theirs. Maybe? -->

jsamuel, you sound like you know much more about Geer's activities than I do. What's he been up to? I don't know anything about the items you're referring to but it would be interesting to hear a little more about it. Moderately so - I'm not interested enough to go to the trouble myself to find out personally but I'd be happy to read more about it here. I'm sorry about his wife, as I have heard about her illness second hand. Barbara always seemed like a nice person when I was around her. I first met Chis 35 years ago, last saw him in 1986. He always seemed like a troubled person with personal problems that led to his dour demeanor and inability to interact naturally with other people. (I'm not making fun of him). I do feel his immersion in the Way lifestyle and responsibilities were a means to ignore dealing with his own problems. He always seemed angry with himself. He could be a good guy sometimes but most of the time he had a shield up, being the "tough" guy, that kind of thing. I never saw a pre-post change in him myself, he was a very self conscious and self absorbed person all the years I knew him and not someone I would put a great deal of trust in. But like I say, he was a hard guy to get to know and with his attitude an easy one to ignore.

Hey Sudo, yes, it's pretty good, a little rough around the edges though but not bad. Crucifixion scenes look pretty unnatural anyway so that comes with the territory. If you break it out and blow it up a little and tweak it you can see what I mean: :D-->. For the internet and a joke, yeah, it's pretty good.

Aaah, High School Steve! (not Steve!) As good a reminder as any of how weirdly wacky life can be. Nothing more to dispense from here. But I love Friday's. Administrationally speaking, they're a real hoot!

? I thought BFD was short for BiblefanDave...? No ill intent is made from these precincts. Thrash my lazy fingers! I get you Steve! BiblefanDave, you are and ever shall be. But if you want to call me S, that's kosh'. It's Friday, a day filled with promise. : )

BFD, I think the money/greed issue isn't addressed by the personal income of VPW although I get the impression there are people look at it that way. And remember, compensation can include things that don't appear in the gross income on a tax return. Beyond that however there's actually a different slant on that topic that I believe is important. Whether it's believed or not, if you follow the path of VPW from the time he felt God spoke to him and told him He'd teach him if VPW taught it and follow how he set his ministry up with PFAL there is a contradiction that's hard to miss, I think. Keep in mind too that the PFAL of tape and film that most grads took was only filmed in 1967 and culminated all of his previous teaching formats into that one product. So when you look to the periods of the ministry's growth in California he'd only had it in the can for a year or so. That product and the 2 intermediate and advanced classes formed the core of his teaching ministry. Granted there was a great deal more teachings he did, books, etc. literally 1000's of presentations in one form or another over the years. But they're the core of what he believed he had to offer in his teaching ministry. Those classes were marketed and sold for money, different amounts over the years, fees, contributions, donations whatever you want to call them. But the process for reaching out with the teaching he said God gave and was giving him was to sell it in the form of classes and other materials. If you didn't pay you didn't get the teaching. Regardless of the reasons behind the donation structure it never varied for the mass of classes run. I see a problem with that. Personally I never expected that the PFAL series would remain being a sold class forever. But it did. If you look at the Way tree structure and the Way Corps and Ambassador programs they were constantly tooled and retooled - by VPW for many years - to make people more adept at selling and running PFAL classes. The very definition of "WOW" was a twig in every community in the world - of instructed PFAL grads. By VPW's own actions it became the single point of entry to the "household" of true believers and the only way to fully receive the "accuracy of the Word". After 15 years out it sounds silly, but it's not hard to remember that without the PFAL class under your belt it was impossible to be considered an instructed "believer" in the Way and participate in many activities. They all required you to be a PFAL grad, for the most part. Those that didn't provided the opportunity to enroll. The fact that many people still felt that being a "grad" actually served a larger purpose by helping you was, IMO, largely lost on the emphasis on the work of promoting and promulgating PFAL. The means to the end became the end itself. The Way Corps is often criticized for being hard hearted, pushy ,egotistical and single minded. Where do we think that came from? Attitude, like water, flows downhill. Granted you're going to get some mult-level marketing fans and jerks but how do you get bunches of people who want to "help people" and "learn the Word" and "build something positive" one year and within 4-5 years have a bunch of people ready to ream you out for not being at a meeting 15 minutes early and telling you just don't care about God, do you you slacker!!!??? Personally I think a lot of the problems and unbalanced behavior that grew in the Way over the years - while VPW was alive and at the helm - was the result of focusing on the work, not the end result. My point about the money is that PFAL sold something that wasn't his to sell - God's Word. The collection of specific amounts of money as a donation, a charge by any other word, for "God's Word" was wrong IMO. Per Jesus, you can't mix money and the things of God up like that even if you think it's for a good reason. It's a fine line and once it's crossed I believe the "hose" dries up. Look at any of the big money pumping religious machines and you see the same thing - a lot of talk and preening and swelling memberships and lots of problems. I believe sooner or later it catches up with you and when it's in your own lifetime, that's sooner. While all of these organizations will have people who will say God works in their lives and there's good things happening, it's tainted at the center. Everyone struggling to believe more, to know more, to give more, to do this or that more, gotta get to this conference that meeting, get that tape, get this tape,and all the time I see it as people pulling a cart filled with one diamond and a 1,000 pounds of rocks. Get rid of the rocks and the cart wouldn't be an issue. You can carry a diamond in your pocket. This is off the "Wacky" topic, but hey. We're here. : ) I don't care that much about that part of the discussion, so forgive me. I'm also not a part of any ex-Way groups of any kind and never have been, so I don't know much about them either. -edited to add more scinitallating comments and at the behest of my inner word nanny to correct typos! : )

Not quite a movie, more than a live concert - "James Taylor Live at the Beacon Theatre". 109 minutes, audio digitally mastered in Dolby stereo and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound. The audio quality is exquisite, extra DVD goodies and JT does both the familiar material and some not-so.

"Ghost Dog (the Way of the Samurai)" - Jim Jarmusch film, stars Forest Whitaker. Whitaker plays a professional hit man who lives by the code of the Samurai and is betrayed by a Mafia family he does hits for. "The Abyss", John Cameron movie, pre-Titanic. Great love story, sci-fi. Where JC got started on his underwater work. Get the DVD full set, has a "Making of" section for the film. Incredible effort went in to making it. "Office Space". Corporate Cubicle Culture, lots of good actors. "Hi Fidelity", John Cusak. Sweet story. "Amadeus". Tom Hulce plays Mozart.

This is the humor thread...right?

5 year olds....sent to the principals office??!! He sounds pretty normal to me. We sent our kids in the k-5 year to a Baptist elementary school in Tampa, Fl. where we lived at the time. They had the greatest people for teachers. I mean, at 5, kids aren't looking to line up and do anything, they're kids for gawds sake. They were so patient and understanding and the way they handled our kids their first few years in school was worth every penny it cost and we were happy to support them additionally as we were able. They made a huge impression on their little minds at the time and in the process our kids learned respect and love. They still remember them and have good memories of that experience. I STILL can't stand in line at a grocery store for more than 10 minutes without getting in to trouble!

Sudo, if you haven't read my posts on the "forgivien/are you ready for this" thread, this is an example of exactly what I was posting there. On a bad day and we were face to face I'd rip your lower right rib out for using a photo of the crucifixion of Jesus as a joke with a photo of yourself. Not to mention the use of an Elvis song, that's downright bad form. Plus my pc locked up with the audio mid-stream causing me to close and restart my IE browser, an interruption that is in and of itself The One Unforgivable Sin. These things would surely cause an immediate, but deliberate, response. But I can forgive this, you're being a jacka$$. Even using Elvis tunes. All of it. It's a good day and I hope to have many more. Ain't life grand?

:D--> :D--> :D--> HA! I just felt like Li'l Calvin should show up first and get a good seat!