WordWolf

[Actually, I added those words of explanation. When I add the brackets and the boldface, I'm making it clear I'm speaking for myself. That's why I use the underlines for emphasis. The NASB, as you can see, renders similarly to the KJV in that. A quick comparison on Bible Gateway or something similar shows that. My point was that the supposed "sacrifices" made by twi'ers or twi-style Christians are mislabeled as being as bold as Bible examples. However, none of them ever got into the same ballpark as Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego.]

Seems to me that things that really are of God don't HAVE precise, discrete boxes of organization. They start when one person does something of God, others respond, and do things of God with them, and then a movement begins developing. Eventually, someone gives it a name and nowadays you end up making it official, but really, that's incidental. With things of man, they start with the precise, neatly-diagrammed organization, and develop from there. No room for the Spirit of God to work- it's all planned out by men who claim to be doing it in God's name and with His approval.

God's Word concerning how "minor" the subject of compassion is for the brethren.... James 2:15-20 (KJV) 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? ======================= James 2:15-20 (NASB) 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? ======================== Surely the Lord who wanted some privacy, and instead healed the multitudes that followed him, and also fed them loaves and fishes when all he wanted to do is get alone to pray after receiving devastating news, surely he would recognize that there's more to "Christian service" than Romans 10:9, and more to "serving" than teaching the Bible. (Not that there's anything wrong with teaching the Bible, nor with wishing someone to go in peace, but there's a time for each. Surely those who pride themselves on being CHRISTians, on being "of Christ", can tell the difference between them.

Didn't Jesus himself select a physician, Luke, as one of his disciples? I don't recall any incident recorded where Jesus told him it was a rubbish field. Does anyone recall such an incident? I do know that a number of sound medical principles are recorded in the Mosaic Law, and were eventually adopted by the medical profession. I notice the people at the top of twi never seemed to refuse medical attention in favor of prayer or some alternative method. vpw himself wore glasses the entire time all of us had heard of him, yet he was supposedly the standard of believing and got all sorts of results. Years to operate, and he never got 20/20 vision back- and lost an eye to disease. (He didn't refuse medical attention for that, either.) According to his own account, vpw claimed he never got sick A DAY IN HIS LIFE, and never TOOK AN ASPIRIN A DAY IN HIS LIFE. Me, I figure he was saying a tremendous lie both times. Everything we COULD measure showed he was just another guy who got sick, got hurt, got old, etc, just like everyone else, and was unable to use his "believing" to prevent any of it.

Any unbeliever who has even a basic understanding of health would tell someone who was recovering from food poisoning to do the following, which work for most situations that don't require more serious medical care or specialized care: A) REST B) stay warm C) stay clean D) get nutrition Those promote the body's natural healing systems. (Rest allows the body time to work, staying warm ensures infections won't set in, staying clean will keep away opportunistic infections, and good nutrition gives the body the building blocks to rebuild its health. Of course, twi promoted- and probably still promotes- avoiding rest because you can't slave for them while you're resting. Last I heard, the food at hq for most people was inadequate in both amount and nutritional requirements, too. But it's what twi could get cheaply, so there you go.

Is there a reason to consider that a "healing" other than your desire to shoehorn it into a discussion it does not relate to? The verses say nothing about that being a "healing." Chapter and verse, please... Naaman was healed after washing in the Jordan 7 times. Jesus healed a man's eyes with spit, clay and prayer. Nothing indicates any of these is any sort of "rule." They also have nothing to do with twi insisting that going back to work promotes healing. Which relates to twi saying going back to work promites healing HOW? AFTER a muscle has been healed (a disease removed, damage removed), a professional will often recommend using the muscle again, in slow increments that increase, because that's how a muscle gets strong. Few people have difficulty telling the difference between exercise AFTER healing with a requirement to exercise FOR healing. I'm glad we agree on something. Correlation does not equal causation. Presuming we were even TOLD THE TRUTH (when it comes to twi, that's a big leap), then Howard was left alone for long periods, and eventually his wits returned. Since he was left alone in his office, you're assuming that the office has anything to do with the recovery. If he'd rested in bed, he probably would have recovered exactly the same. (Personally, I think some minimum exposure to input was beneficial, but that could easily be done anywhere.) A lab experiment showed birds were fed randomly, and they began "religiously" performing "superstitious" behavior. The reason was that they were connecting what they had done at the moment the food was given with the food being given. So, they kept repeating those actions to get the food to return. Of course, the actions had nothing to do with the food arriving-that was a complete coincidence. Likewise, correlation does not equal causation. Just because 2 events happen together does not mean one caused the other. More people get frostbite when sales of hot chocolate go up. Does the hot chocolate cause the frostbite? No, the hot chocolate sales go up when the weather gets cold.... Confusing correlation with causation is sloppy thinking. BTW, I could swear twi credited some sort of amazing recovery for Howard to some kind of beet juice or molasses or something. Is that the same incident, or was the man prone to all sorts of mysterious illnesses and recoveries?

I've never SEEN "Scent of a Woman", and I might have gotten it from a few clips I have seen... either a reference to one character being blind (there was something about not needing the OTHER character to grab him), or any of several well-known quotes from the "trial" towards the end. As to the current one, I'll take another guess on a movie I haven't seen... "BLOW"?

I'm almost certain this is not any Marx Brothers movie. (This is coming from a fan who owns most of their movies.) I'm thinking this is either Abbott and Costello, or Laurel and Hardy. I'll take a wild swing (I don't know this from one line) and say "March of the Wooden Soldiers" (aka "Babes in Toyland" starring L & H).

You SHOULD have recognized that song, if you knew about recent events in my life... Some of you never read my thread in Soap Opera, apparently... Ok, people, FREE POST!

the Karate Kid (the original) Ralph Macchio My Cousin Vinny

"Well, I just heard the news today. It seems my life is going to change. I close my eyes, begin to pray Then tears of joy stream down my face" "Well I don't know if I'm ready To be the man I have to be. I'll take a breath, I'll take her by my side. We stand in awe, we've created life." "Welcome to this place, I'll show you everything." "Now everything has changed. I'll show you love, I'll show you everything." "If I had just one wish, Only one demand, I hope he's not like me- I hope he understands That he can take this life And hold it by the hand And he can greet the world..."

"Well I don't know if I'm ready To be the man I have to be. I'll take a breath, I'll take her by my side. We stand in awe, we've created life" "If I had just one wish, Only one demand, I hope he's not like me- I hope he understands That he can take this life And hold it by the hand And he can greet the world..."

"If I had just one wish, Only one demand, I hope he's not like me- I hope he understands That he can take this life And hold it by the hand And he can greet the world..."

I think twi should pay us a maintenance fee. Since their website is as interesting as dry toast, and as informative as a bubble-gum wrapper, nobody ever visits it- even current twi members and staff do not visit it. So, the only way they get information and updates on their own website is by visiting the far more interesting GSC- which is to say, US. So, since we provide them with a valuable service, they should pay us. It's the American way!

Your guess is correct! The 2nd movie began with a new baby joining the family-"Pubert." Your turn!

"The Ballad of Rocky Raccoon," the Lads from Liverpool.

"Isn't he a lady-killer?" Acquited!" "Now, one of you will be the drowning victim and the other one gets to be our lifesaver." "I'll be the victim!" "All your life." "We don't hug." "Oh, they're just shy." "We're not shy." "We're contagious." "Children, why do you hate the baby?" We don't hate him. We just wanna play with him." "Especially his head." "You'll meet someone. Someone very special. Someone who won't press charges." "Would you die for me?" "Yes." "Promise?"

"Isn't he a lady-killer?" Acquited!" "Now, one of you will be the drowning victim and the other one gets to be our lifesaver." "I'll be the victim!" "All your life."

Let's see.... Hero pretending to be a villain... If I remember my television correctly, that was the premise of "The Green Hornet". That had a movie last year. (No Bruce Lee, sadly, but otherwise...) So, is it THE GREEN HORNET?

A) When one is "talking down" to the audience, one sounds superior to them. (Me, I like to presume everyone else is about as smart as I am- but may need me to use less "high-faluting" words when making a case for something....and it's reasonable to think I should "make a case" for any claim I'm making. B) Please remember that JAL's audience is not "the general public." The general public has no reason to take him seriously- and does not. JAL's audience is "ex-twi'ers." Ex-twi'ers have the common history of twi, where many or most learned to shut off their thinking processes and just accept what the teacher was teaching-some still do that, with a veneer of a LITTLE thinking, and thinking A LITTLE thinking is ENOUGH thinking. So, JAL expects that a LITTLE study is enough for the ex-twi crowd. In other words, JAL thinks that you're still stupid enough to fall for light study and patronizing talk as the pinnacle of Bible education. He also thinks you're stupid enough that he can have a long history of teaching one thing, then turn around and teach AGAINST it, and do so with no apologies- and you'll just say "OK" with no explanation from him, or even an APOLOGY. There's no humility, no "I was once foolish enough to teach this, but I know better NOW" or anything else that shows he admits he ever was wrong and thinks he has IMPROVED. He exists at the "the teacher is always right" level, and thinks you're feeble enough that he can keep you as an audience member while he does that.

In twi and ex-twi circles, the idea you mentioned is called "the idiom of permission", and is where the active voice is switched for the passive voice. In doing a search for that, all I found were ex-twi posts or ex-twi sites. (The use of twi-specific terms like "the adversary", insistence on the KJV, and so on, are obvious flags, especially when they're all grouped together.) Since it ONLY comes up on ex-twi sites, all by itself that raises a few "red flags" for me. Anything that nobody's ever heard of EXCEPT ex-twi'ers? Can it possibly be accurate? Anyroad, so I looked around, and found what I think were the most intelligent pages on the subject. I found 2 of them. A quick skim will show that they are the same page (the contents are more than 95A% the same, down to the same words on the same spots) and are probably cut-and-pastes. I do not know if one is a cut-and-paste of the other. I do not know if both are cut-and-pastes of yet a third page. However, what I DO know is that they are the same article, and both pages clearly give credit to someone-and those are 2 different people in both cases. So, ex-twi and plagiarism seem to be co-inciding again. Unlike in vpw's day, it can be caught a LOT more easily now- a few clicks of a mouse versus research in a library. So, having said all that, and having given what I consider are prudent caveats, here are the links to those pages: http://thefaithofjesus.blogspot.com/2007/08/did-jesus-raise-himself-from-dead.html http://www.bibletopics.com/BibleStudy/177.htm Although this is not an article itself focused on that subject, it uses it clearly and with illustrations. So, IF the idiom of permission is correct, I would use this to help explain it. However, I still have unanswered questions concerning the entire subject, as you can see.

(bumping up to the top)

Osama bin Laden was met at The Pearly Gates by George Washington, who slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!" Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed." James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!" Thomas Jefferson was next, he beat Osama with a long cane and snarled, "It was evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence." The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the terrorist leader. As Osama was dragged to his final, flaming reward, he saw an angel. Bin Laden shouted, "This is not what you promised me!" The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?"

I'll keep it lifted. As well as your sleep-schedule. :) Oh, and congratulations!!!!!

[some highlights from the article above..] Waco, Texas (CNN) -- Sheila Martin's children burned alive. God, she says, wanted it that way. "I don't expect you to understand," she says, Her calm, over those days, came when she heard his voice, talking to a negotiator, on the loudspeaker. "Now, do you know what the name Koresh means?" the voice boomed. "It means death." "We didn't have a plan for death," Martin says. "I wondered: Did someone change the plan without telling me?" David Koresh told his followers years before the men in uniforms arrived that a great apocalyptic battle with Babylon was coming and there would be destruction and fire and deaths. So, Martin says, David was right. "David is the messiah, and he's coming back," she explains, inspecting a bush that's beginning to produce sweet peppers. "Now we just wait for the kingdom." Doyle sits in his cluttered living room, detective paperbacks, tomes on theology and Laurel & Hardy videos crammed on bookshelves. The only item that has room to breathe is a photograph of his 18-year-old daughter, Shari. She was one of Koresh's "wives." In the photo, Shari is flaxen haired, flushed and smiling, hugging the family dog. That Koresh bedded his daughter makes Doyle shift in his seat, and when he speaks of it, his jaw tightens. Doyle says his daughter started having sex with Koresh when she was 14. Koresh fathered at least 13 children with sect followers and engaged in sexual acts with underage Davidian girls, according to the Justice Department, numerous affidavits of Davidians and interviews CNN conducted with survivors. Davidian Kiri Jewel testified during 1995 congressional hearings on the siege that Koresh slept in a bed with women and children, and she believed that he had impregnated a 14-year-old. Koresh, she said, often talked about how the young girls at the compound pleased him sexually. Jewel described in graphic detail how Koresh sexually assaulted her. She testified that she wasn't afraid of getting pregnant; she was too young, she explained. She'd not even started menstruating yet. Doyle insists that his daughter Shari, even at a young age, was capable of deciding whether to have sex with Koresh. There is silence for a moment. Doyle knows that trying to justify Koresh having sex with underage girls incites nothing but outrage from nonbelievers. And, initially, when David began preaching a message that his holy seed must be spread to any girl he preferred, married or in pigtails, Doyle admits he was bothered by it. "I wondered, I asked, 'Is this God or is this horny old David?' " But Doyle's concern didn't last long. "I couldn't argue because he'd show you where it was in the Bible." Sheila Martin, too, condones Koresh having sex with underage girls. "In the Bible, if a girl is old enough to menstruate, then she can be a wife," she insists. There are three crucial points to understanding the Branch Davidian brand of religion. First, God can appear in the flesh as a man. Second, that man doesn't have to be a good person. Third, if you question whether that man is God, then you are questioning God. In other words, the devil is responsible for your doubt. "Now," Doyle asks, "are you going to give the devil control?" [Who's like first crack at breaking this down?]