WordWolf

"Offer me money." "Yes." "Power too-promise that!" "All that I have and more. Please." "Offer me everything I ask for." "Anything you want!" "I want my father back, you son of a b*."

I find it interesting that a full-time minister gets blamed for not being here all the time continually countering the attempts of people to discredit anything he says that they don't like. If he was here all the time, naturally, he would be blamed for neglecting his flock. If he wasn't a minister, naturally, he would be blamed for not doing something positive and cultivating the flock. In short, it's determined-by a few- that disagreeing with vpw-and especially, providing documentation when he contradicted Scripture in teaching or conduct- makes one a bad Christian, and then after that, the pretexts, justifications and accusations are assembled. No matter WHAT he did, some here would be indicting that minister.

General rules-of-thumb around here about giving away someone's name... If you want to, you can give out your first name, full name, or any parts thereof. Some of us recommend you do not, simply because of the "Google" factor- if you ever end up with a cyber-stalker, or have a job interview, this information will be found and someone may use it against you in some way. Usual rules on the entire internet are to recommend against posting ANYTHING by which you can be personally-identified, which means no name, no phone#, no address, no Social Security# or government ID#, no specific name-of-company-you-work-for or school-you-go-to", and so on. Identity theft is another big internet issue, and one criminal industry on the internet is trying to get your personal information ("phising" and so on.) You will never see ME posting my name online. You'll see me post the city I'm from, with no other information to track me down. If you can single me out like that from among 9 million people or so, then you deserve to find me. (Imagine your disappointment in doing so-I'm not a rich target by any means. You'd waste a LOT of time doing something that would be of little use to you.) As to information about other people, it's not permitted-unless they give permission- to post their full name. (The staff does not always CATCH all instances, so it might be gotten-away-with despite being not permitted.) Using initials or blocking out part of the name is permissible- things that would stop, say, a Google-search on their full name showing that post. For example, if you knew the first president of the US personally, you would not be permitted on the GSC to type his name as "George Washington" unless he posted here using his full name. (There's more to this a little later.) You could instead type in "G***** W*********", but that's a little confusing unless you were saying something else specific to him. You could type "Ge**** Wa********", or substitute some letters, like "G30rg3 W@$h1ng+0n." Would you have any problem reading that name as-is? However, that version won't trigger a Google-search. A few names get creatively re-imagined. For example, one fellow who pushes the twi party line even when it's a lie to someone's face-including the debt policies- has been referred to as "Moneyhands", which is not QUITE his last name, but is close enough that you can identify him-and seems pretty apt. The exceptions are the public figures. Thus, we've generally agreed that members, past-and present, of twi's board are fair game for posting, as well as a handful of people who are universally-identifiable, like Mrs W, trustees of the alternate sites (CG and RC, for example), are also fair game. Even then, just as a general policy, I rarely do so without knocking out a letter, although I COULD. Overall, it's not a tough policy, and the long-term benefits for all whose names are used are not that hard to picture once it's explained.

*wild swing* "Fight Club"?

======= And those of you, who, like me, object to subscription radio, can always STREAM radio stations through your internet connection. You don't need anything more complicated, than, say, Windows Media Player or the equivalent. AFAIK, most radio stations you can pick up SOMEWHERE on broadcast also have an internet stream to pick them up on. I keep getting surprised NEWS stations have one. Me, I sometimes listen to a radio station in CANADA I like.

Suda being the first to correctly name the artist, and since it's obvious nobody's going to get the title at this point, I'm passing the baton to Suda. The artist is the Goo Goo Dolls, the song is "Slide." (I was hoping the last quote would trick a memory, since I dropped a quote just before one of the places the word "slide" appears.) Serves me right for breaking my "pre-1986" personal rule. Ok, Suda, your turn.

I'll give it one last chance. Maybe someone will get the title as well. "Do you wake up on your own And wonder where you are You live with all your faults" "I wanna wake up where you are. I won't say anything at all. So why don't you...." "I'll do anything you ever dreamed to be complete, Little pieces of the nothing that fall. May, put your arms around me. What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful"

*wild swing* "TURK 182"???

I want to wait a bit before adding my opinions to this discussion. I want to give posters a fair change to present THEIRS without me interfering. That's why my opening post was so neutral. It would be appreciated if you could provide the verses for your assertions whenever there are verses- especially if you could post the actual verse. That's not a rule, but really a request, if you please.

Ok, we haven't discussed this in a long time, if ever. There's different schools of thought about God's knowledge. What does God know, and when does He know it? Whenever I think of this, I keep flashing back to a classic Doonsbury, where someone said to one President. "Sir, as your special counsel, I have to know what you knew and when you knew it." It was a jigsaw puzzle, and-when assembled- it missed one piece- which was the President's reply. Which was apt. So, that's what we're discussing-in theory- here. What does God know, what did God know, and when?

You may have missed this, dooj, but there was a time-and possibly it's STILL true- when cg was teaching this very thing- that God is NOT omniscient, that God is NOT transcendant, that God exists in the present with us (as opposed to inhabiting eternity), that God WAS surprised and taken aback when events happened- specifically using Genesis 3 as an example. John APPEARS to be saying much the same thing.

IIRC, that's one of the main criticisms of socialism. At least, when I was taking Philosophy, that's what I read. From what I've heard, fast-trackers in twi tended to exemplify this, too. Wanting a free ride on the wow field correlated with wanting a free ride getting a twi paycheck for bossing people around. (Not that every leader was like that, just the fast-trackers I've heard of.)

That's the correct title of the ship and the episode. The more I think about this episode, the more problems I see with the strategy. First of all, Starfleet has an incredibly rigid screening process to get INTO the academy, but the cadets are allowed to get into trouble- at least the ones in elite units. Nova Squadron killed a cadet trying a dangerous, prohibited stunt. Red Squad's been in trouble more than once. Small wonder they have ANOTHER loose cannon there. They need to disband "elite" groups as troublemakers in the first place. In the second place, using an older ship in the Terran system makes a lot of sense. Keeping in the Terran system means less of a chance cadets will be killed, which is a bad thing when training cadets. Further, in time of war, all the warships- and Defiant-class ships are warships and of limited numbers- are needed for the war. What idiot decided to take a top-of-the-line warship and assign it to 3 months of training duty? In the third place, cadets who train in the field are assigned SINGLY to places so they can benefit from everyone's experience. Nog did that, and Kirk did that, as did others. Otherwise, why is an entire group of cadets taken out of school for 3 full months? Finally, this MAY have happened but the actual officer who was dying should have given explicit instructions to return to the academy as directly as possible, by the most direct route that was safe, and to not be diverted from this for any reason whatsoever unless their ship is under direct attack. It sounds more like he SUPPOSED the cadet in charge would decide to do that- which IS the sensible course but was not guaranteed. Then again, he may have told him that, and the guy might have just lied to everyone else. Might as well take the next turn, George.

Well, I can pm the lyrics to you, but, really, is there a benefit to you having them? Tom hasn't done that one in a very, very long time. I speculate it's part of his embarassing twi days. Since I had some of those as well, I'm willing to let his fade with time.

Or that God's understanding isn't infinite, or that He doesn't know all things. Or that He doesn't know the end from the beginning.

"I wanna wake up where you are. I won't say anything at all." "I'll do anything you ever dreamed to be complete, Little pieces of the nothing that fall. May, put your arms around me. What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful"

"Put that in the story too. Let people read it... and decide for themselves." "He may have been a hero... he may even have been a great man... but in the end, he was a bad captain." "I came to see Ferenginar. I've heard a lot about it -- I can't wait to see all the... the rain... and the muck... "But this is work for a... a mechanic. A repairman. A lowly engineer." "I'm going to tell Chief O'Brien you said that." "It's the Defiant!" "What??" "Thank you... sir?" "'Sir' is correct, ensign. I was given a battlefield commission and command of this vessel by the late Captain Ramirez." "Our mission was to circumnavigate the entire Federation before returning home." "So... uh... where are you from?" "Me? Tycho City." "Oh... a Lunar Schooner." " I haven't heard that in a long time." "I picked it up from my grandpa. Of course, he still calls Luna The Moon -- like it's the only one or something." "Well, nobody who's ever lived on the Moon calls it "Luna," either. That's just something they say on Earth." "Sir, the Engine Room also reports that we still have power spikes cropping up all through the deuterium injector startup routine." "I thought we had that under control." "I did too, sir." "Have you recalibrated the lateral impulse control system?" "No. What does that have to do with the injectors?" "Well, the impulse system shares some of the same power relays used in the injector startup routine." "Like that other one... the, uh... uh -- the Republic." "Not quite. The Republic's an old ship -- I don't think she's left the Terran System in fifty years." "As of this moment, you're chief engineer. Congratulations." "Chief Engineer?" "With the rank of lieutenant commander. Your first assignment is to figure out why we can't go above warp three point two." "Well. It sounds like you and the chief had quite a conversation this afternoon: home and family, and the glories of dawn on the Moon. Does that about cover it?" "That's... about it. What's going on?" " What's going on, Mister Sisko, in case you haven't noticed, is that we're in the middle of a war. We can't afford to have young cadets thinking about mommy and daddy when they need to be concentrating on their duties.." "All I did was ask about her home." "All you did was plunge a member of this crew into emotional turmoil. The safety of the entire ship can rest on the actions of any one of us at any given moment. That cadet was not ready to handle an emergency today and you are the reason why." "Look -- if you're telling me that just talking about home can jeopardize the "safety of the entire ship," then you're in bigger trouble than you think you are." "You're not here to volunteer your opinion. What you have to do is shut your mouth, obey the rules of this ship and stay away from Chief Collins!" "Jake -- may I call you Jake? You're a reporter. Your job is to watch the way events unfold, not participate in them. Right now, you need to stand back and take a good look at where you are and what's going on around you. You're in the middle of a great story. Maybe one of the greatest stories of the entire Dominion War. This ship is special, Jake. This crew is special. Whatever fates guide the universe have chosen us to achieve some purpose in this conflict. I know that. I know it as surely as I know your presence on this ship is no coincidence. You're here to write the story..." "Don't interfere with the story, Jake. Don't become part of it. Just let it unfold around you. Observe. Listen. And then write it down." "You do realize you're violating about fifty safety regulations?" "Yes sir, I do. But I also know that Chief O'Brien made the same changes to the Defiant and she never had a problem." "You probably all know who my father is -- Benjamin Sisko. So you know I'm not exaggerating when I say that he's considered to be one of the best combat officers in the fleet........ ...And I'm telling you right now that even with the entire crew of the Defiant with him... my father would never try to pull off something like this. And if he can't do it... it can't be done."

Sometimes I don't have to post anything.

You've gotten entirely out of twi, but has twi gotten out of you? That's fair. That's one reason why there's professionals. So either they can "just get over it", or "there is no God." Nice False Dilemma. Absolves you of trying to understand the heart of another person, though. You might thank God that nothing ever happened to you that was so traumatic you get flashbacks about it a lifetime later. There's plenty of people who walk this earth who can't say the same.

"I'll do anything you ever dreamed to be complete, Little pieces of the nothing that fall." "What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful"

Sorry, that's not it.

"He may have been a hero... he may even have been a great man... but in the end, he was a bad captain." "I came to see Ferenginar. I've heard a lot about it -- I can't wait to see all the... the rain... and the muck... "But this is work for a... a mechanic. A repairman. A lowly engineer." "I'm going to tell Chief O'Brien you said that." "It's the Defiant!" "What??" "Thank you... sir?" "'Sir' is correct, ensign. I was given a battlefield commission and command of this vessel by the late Captain Ramirez." "Our mission was to circumnavigate the entire Federation before returning home." "So... uh... where are you from?" "Me? Tycho City." "Oh... a Lunar Schooner." " I haven't heard that in a long time." "I picked it up from my grandpa. Of course, he still calls Luna The Moon -- like it's the only one or something." "Well, nobody who's ever lived on the Moon calls it "Luna," either. That's just something they say on Earth." "Sir, the Engine Room also reports that we still have power spikes cropping up all through the deuterium injector startup routine." "I thought we had that under control." "I did too, sir." "Have you recalibrated the lateral impulse control system?" "No. What does that have to do with the injectors?" "Well, the impulse system shares some of the same power relays used in the injector startup routine." "Like that other one... the, uh... uh -- the Republic." "Not quite. The Republic's an old ship -- I don't think she's left the Terran System in fifty years." "As of this moment, you're chief engineer. Congratulations." "Chief Engineer?" "With the rank of lieutenant commander. Your first assignment is to figure out why we can't go above warp three point two." "All I did was ask about her home." "All you did was plunge a member of this crew into emotional turmoil. The safety of the entire ship can rest on the actions of any one of us at any given moment. That cadet was not ready to handle an emergency today and you are the reason why." "Look -- if you're telling me that just talking about home can jeopardize the "safety of the entire ship," then you're in bigger trouble than you think you are." "You're not here to volunteer your opinion. What you have to do is shut your mouth, obey the rules of this ship and stay away from Chief Collins!" "Jake -- may I call you Jake? You're a reporter. Your job is to watch the way events unfold, not participate in them. Right now, you need to stand back and take a good look at where you are and what's going on around you. You're in the middle of a great story. Maybe one of the greatest stories of the entire Dominion War. This ship is special, Jake. This crew is special. Whatever fates guide the universe have chosen us to achieve some purpose in this conflict. I know that. I know it as surely as I know your presence on this ship is no coincidence. You're here to write the story..." "Don't interfere with the story, Jake. Don't become part of it. Just let it unfold around you. Observe. Listen. And then write it down." "You do realize you're violating about fifty safety regulations?" "Yes sir, I do. But I also know that Chief O'Brien made the same changes to the Defiant and she never had a problem."

Congratulations on a clear, straightforward, Scripture-based post, T-Bone! When the only defense left is "I've made up my mind and you're a stoopidhead", you've distilled something to its essence, Scripturally.

I think the case before him didn't make any sense. It was in vogue at the time for Jews to attempt to lead armed insurrections against Rome. (That's why the disciples kept expecting Jesus to re-establish an Earthly kingdom, even at the Ascension.) Barabbus was just one of many conspirators that attempted to lead armed rebellions. Pilate's main concern was to keep his job, which meant he had to keep the peace- which meant he had to stop insurrections as quickly and harshly as possible, preferably before they started. To see them hand over a violent demagogue would make sense- they wouldn't want Pilate's soldiers to attack them just to take out HIS insurrection. But they didn't hand over a violent man, a man who preached violence. They handed over a temperate man, a man who controlled his emotions, and preached peace. What the HECK was going on? All Pilate had to go on was what he was being told. The people OBVIOUSLY weren't telling him what he needed to know- which left Jesus telling him. Thus, he needed Jesus to talk. The question "what is truth?" was an open-ended one, much like one of us asking another "What does God find most-pleasing and why?" The answers will vary, and require some exposition. HOW it's answered is as important as what is said. Pilate was educated, knew what he HAD to do, and was presented with something that made no sense, but he had to find a solution that didn't end in using soldiers in combat. Ultimately, from his perspective, any one innocent man's life was a small price to pay for the many that would be lost if there was a violent action. But he had to make sense of it before he made any decision.

"He may have been a hero... he may even have been a great man... but in the end, he was a bad captain." "I came to see Ferenginar. I've heard a lot about it -- I can't wait to see all the... the rain... and the muck... "But this is work for a... a mechanic. A repairman. A lowly engineer." "I'm going to tell Chief O'Brien you said that." "It's the Defiant!" "What??" "Thank you... sir?" "'Sir' is correct, ensign...." "Our mission was to circumnavigate the entire Federation before returning home." "So... uh... where are you from?" "Me? Tycho City." "Oh... a Lunar Schooner." " I haven't heard that in a long time." "I picked it up from my grandpa. Of course, he still calls Luna The Moon -- like it's the only one or something." "Well, nobody who's ever lived on the Moon calls it "Luna," either. That's just something they say on Earth." "Sir, the Engine Room also reports that we still have power spikes cropping up all through the deuterium injector startup routine." "I thought we had that under control." "I did too, sir." "Have you recalibrated the lateral impulse control system?" "No. What does that have to do with the injectors?" "Well, the impulse system shares some of the same power relays used in the injector startup routine." "Like that other one... the, uh... uh -- the Republic." "Not quite. The Republic's an old ship -- I don't think she's left the Terran System in fifty years." "As of this moment, you're chief engineer. Congratulations." "Chief Engineer?" "With the rank of lieutenant commander. Your first assignment is to figure out why we can't go above warp three point two." "All I did was ask about her home." "All you did was plunge a member of this crew into emotional turmoil. The safety of the entire ship can rest on the actions of any one of us at any given moment. That cadet was not ready to handle an emergency today and you are the reason why." "Look -- if you're telling me that just talking about home can jeopardize the "safety of the entire ship," then you're in bigger trouble than you think you are." "You're not here to volunteer your opinion. What you have to do is shut your mouth, obey the rules of this ship and stay away from Chief Collins!" "Jake -- may I call you Jake? You're a reporter. Your job is to watch the way events unfold, not participate in them. Right now, you need to stand back and take a good look at where you are and what's going on around you. You're in the middle of a great story. Maybe one of the greatest stories of the entire Dominion War. This ship is special, Jake. This crew is special. Whatever fates guide the universe have chosen us to achieve some purpose in this conflict. I know that. I know it as surely as I know your presence on this ship is no coincidence. You're here to write the story..." "Don't interfere with the story, Jake. Don't become part of it. Just let it unfold around you. Observe. Listen. And then write it down."