cara

Maybe he plucks. If he shaved himself while looking in a mirror, could that work? It's his image that's the focus, not himself ??

That's a great post about the temptations , Mr. Wordwolf - thanks for the thinking. Pat, i like your name - what's the question? In the matter of family versus thinking, I could talk to certain TWI friends in the same way that I could to family members, asking questions and trying to figure things out together was fine, no agenda suspected, but asking questions of others was often seen as an attack of some kind, and i learned to keep my mouth shut and my thoughts to myself. The very fact that I felt like that with some people got me to question other things that they said, so not a bad thing in the end.

Scots Gaelic is close to Irish Gaelic and Manx; Welsh, Cornish and Breton are a different branch. The Irish used to be called the Scotii by the Romans (probably from an earlier word, see "Scotia") and the word Scotland came from that (there was also a kingdom in Scotland at one point that belonged to an Irish kingdom). In the Republic of Ireland there are still areas and, outside of those, individual households and schools where Irish is the first language, but everybody has to study it from when they start school at four or five. This puts some pepople off it. In Northern ireland learning it is voluntary but there is quite a bit of enthusiasm for it, especially among adults, as far as I know (not getting into the religious/civil rights issues that are so hard to explain). Some of the differences between Irish and Scottish cultures are to do with when the Anglicisation happened, eg, as far as I know, why there aren't Scottish "O" names (from the word for heir). Both Mc and Mac are found in both countries - each is from "mac" which means son. And then Scotland also had the Picts and later had different relationships with the continental europeans. There were Celts all over Europe and in Turkey (Galatia). In the old stories, the Celts who came to Ireland came up from Spain (the Milesians), and originally from the middle east, and recently, I think, they found a strong genetic connection between the Irish and the Basques. Excathedra, did you ever read a book called "How the Irish Saved Civilization"? Brilliant :) Well maybe not really brilliant, but an easy read (if you didn't already know it)!

So, if you started as a student and were still involved when you got your degree, or went back after getting your degree, then that degree would count? (I'm not a pole.)

Hi Twinky, a quick note to say that I have done freelance proofreading, and it's something I would go back to depending on time and need. After I read that publishing companies prefer to use freelance people and that if you had an expertise (a "niche") you'd be better to look for a company that published books in that area, I wrote to several places that put out books related to my training, got a few tests sent to me to do at home, and then a phonecall out of the blue. It's a lonely job, not something I could do 40 hours a week at home, but it was good training for me, and it looks as though you have other more social jobs in mind as well.

Sorry, BA, I did it again - Hibernia is what the Romans called Ireland, though they never went there, not as an army anyway, and when I was googling "irish english" one time, looking for a dictionary to check something, a link to a Wikipedia page about the English spoken in Ireland came up and they called it Hiberno-English, so I thought that was a good international term, not "hiberno-centric" - the best-laid plans ... I have to go and think/read about this stuff also, but for a start I wouldn't think that good needs evil to appear good - the evil is there but it's going to run its course and after that it'll still be good, I think.

This is a very interesting thread - thanks all, for the reminders and links. I'll have to go back and study. Twinky and Broken Arrow, I grew up using "ye" for plural "you" informally - it's fairly common in Hiberno-English. In some parts they say "yous" but I think ye is nicer, though I wouldn't use it with someone from another country. I like the Northern English thees and thas.

Hello buff. If general use of thou/ye is what you mean, then thou is singular and ye is plural in the nominative case (subject) and they change to thee and you in the accusative (object). Just googling "thou ye" I found this: http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/bacon-theethou.html I read somewhere else that the usage had passed out of regular use at the time the KJV was put together: As far as I was taught and can remember, the active for passive usage you were talking about is a figure of speech, so I suppose it has nothing to do with English.

Broken Arrow and Twinky, thanks for your comments. BA, I did hear about that invasion, though I probably didn't know about it at the time, but I think he must have meant the post-Civil War US. My memory is not the best, but I think the problem with the EU that he was trying to explain (sorry about being so eu-centric, now there's a "good" word!) was that these countries that in twos and threes had been at war with each other and invading each other over eons were now forming an alliance, and that wasn't spiritually good. Still doesn't make sense, not that any of it has to anyway! (And some of us never invaded anyone, well, maybe some raiding a long time ago but then later we saved civilisation). Twinky, that must have been rough for you, but at least you had the ability to see another reason for it, when all I could think was that it didn't make sense.

Helloooo - I have another question! I don't think my political views were influenced - I didn't have a vote in the US and things were different elsewhere. As an observer, I did find it odd that a US TWI person might speak of other non-TWI Christians as not knowing anything, being like natural men (!), or even worse (!!), but in a political race a non-TWI Republican would suddenly be "our guy." I suppose that helped me figure out that it didn't matter what people said unless it made sense to me. Here's the question that I never figured out. I got into a short discussion once with a US person (that I liked very much) about the EU - he seemed to think it was a step down the slippery slope, but he couldn't explain to me why, and all I remember him saying was that the US had never been invaded (in comparison to Europe). I said he should tell that to the nearest tribe, but he meant the political US, not geographical, ha, ha. I've heard some strange things said about the EU, and I've heard others say it's not "spiritual' at all, but economic worry. Was there a TWI policy about the EU or signs of the one-world gov or such?

Thank you very much, Wordwolf. I've read it through once (it's currently on p 16 of doctrine threads) and will again - very thoughtful, thought-provoking posts, only one demanding poster, not so bad - and think I might even have notes on an "Open Theology" teaching, not that I knew it was called that. I can picture the atemporal God, who sees both the current me making decisions and the future me with the results, and am certain that I'm the one choosing. I can also picture a benign father, looking on in an entertained way as a mutinous child heads for trouble, knowing he's going to have to do some helping and comforting soon. I don't want to go too far down the imagination road though when there's so much about him already told, think I'd better concentrate on Him, and I appreciate very much that so many verses were brought into the posts. Congratulations on your fatherhhod! From Watered Garden "When they returned the whole group of them had to listen to that Corps Night rage, and I looked in the dining room and she had her head down crying as she listened to what he said about her. Her husband sat next to her, shame-faced at being married to such a loathsome, weak, unspiritual and worthy creature. Oddly enough, they stuck it out and as far as I know are loyal Wayfers to this very day. I am so dumb, my unspiritual mind kept saying "why didn't they take her to the nearest ER like anyone else would do with an acute asthma attack?" I mean, I certainly have no in-depth spiritual perception and awareness, but I do know how to treat someone who is having trouble breathing - "scoop and run" it's called. You can pray on the way to the emergency department. And I guess the big thing about confrontation - I would NEVER let anyone speak about my husband in such a fashion, and I think this woman's husband should have stood up after the tape ended and announced that he was outraged that LCM would speak about his woman, the mother of his children, in such horrible terms. He could have then driven to NK and punched the SOB in his fat ugly nose. But nooooo, if LCM says your spouse is a piece of poo you better agree with it." Confronting, when nobody else can interrupt whether because of politeness or distance- how brave.

Thanks for answering, o chair person. I suppose I was thinking of the relatively minor (but still uncalled-for) shouting in the outlying areas, eg, if someone said christmas or if someone had their eyes closed during a teaching, rather than the real crazy behavior to the Corps themselves that I've seen described here - a trickle-down effect maybe, unintentionally learned.

Hello everybody - glad we're all still here. I was never in the Corps but have a question to do with the shouting/facemelting - was it taught that shouting would scare anything devilish away? I think I later heard something like that somewhere. And I remember people in the corps that I liked and admired and who I normally found warm and funny, that some of them could do the shouting bit also, and I wonder if they felt they had to do it. Just in case someone has an answer at their fingertips, I have another question: I've been reading and reading (still have loads to wade through) and remember that Wordwolf mentioned somewhere that he and Raf (I think) had written to C. Gee[ about the idea of what God knows, his foreknowledge - I've tried searching for this subject and could be looking in the wrong place but wonder if this was actually directly discussed, the different ideas about it. I'll keep looking anyway and thanks to all for the interesting topics.

What, you mean the point of the Cafe is to annoy people! Ha, ha. Your made me laugh.

What a hardhearted picture. I had a friend who used to tell others when introducing me that I had undershepherded her, and I would say no, I just liked you. It hadn't been work to be pleased to see her, and I had an idea that undershepherding was hard (that old broken bread business}. I hadn't thought about the farm animal aspect of it. It's all so odd. We would be told not to rely on experience, but so much that became defined and limited to a manual or in how it was passed down was based on others' experiences, and then we would think that was how it should be done. And it would often end up with us thinking, or forcing ourselves into thinking, that we had an order from God to annoy someone else. PS Happy Saint (I've no reason not think he was one) Patrick's (and he did exist) Day!

It takes your breath away sometimes - thanks.

I'm wondering what you meant by a double life - it's a red bullflag to me, it brings up the memory of the feeling that you had to justify yourself to other TWI believers by telling victory stories from the times when you weren't with them, that what mattered was the physical superficial time spent with them, not your life in Christ, with God. That being around non-TWIers was wrong (they couldn't be real believers), being normal conversationally was wrong, and that basically there was no way God would be with you if you weren't continually with Them. An over-reaction on my part, I'm sure, but I'm wondering what you meant.

In the summer, June/July-ish, of 1981 I took the Advanced Class at a hotel in Peebles, Scotland. There were some big-wigs from the US there - Vin** F!nn&^an was running it, and VPW was there for about a week. They and the local Core were looking around for a property at that time, I think One of the major things that I remember is that "they" told us we were eating too much, and I wonder if this is where the idea that the European people didn't eat properly came from - how ironic would that be. I'm sure it wasn't a normal diet for any of us, but the hotel put on a good spread, and what young person having a good tiime with friends is going to say no, especially when it was all included in the price. Anyway, they had a word with the staff and there were some changes made. I don't think we were excessively dopey during the sessions, but I definitely wasn't getting my normal fresh air exercise and sleep.

This is weird. Since I was in college I've complained (not too seriously) that only misogyny and misanthropy were in my dictionary, and I thought that something like misandry should be allowed. So maybe I sometimes make sense. Saying "feminism" means hatred of men does not. PS My mother had an oval influence on me - I've been waiting for a chance to say that in public. Is that allowed? I can't say she had the other kind.

Not wanting to fight but I would have to argue with that generalisation and guess that you didn't have any sisters to keep you in reality, ha, ha (I mean one where you could have close communication with the opposite sex without weirdness, as I had with a reasonable father and brothers). Not saying you mean immediate family in your sentence, but they're the ones who teach you about the world and how to deal with it. Actually, I could find you examples of such women being all over the media. This has been an interesting thread, though, thanks.

Twinky, I read your posts yesterday and was haunted by them and had a nightmare (happens when I'm overheated). Anyway, I was "back" in some way, there were lots of people around, but I was rushing up and down, never where I was supposed to be. Je*ff Bri*dges was in it as well, but he semed to be having a good time. I think he must remind me of a (better-looking-than-) Fabio type in my life, someone from a US east coast state, south of DC, that I met at an ROA and who was kind enough to phone me when he heard of some of the goings-on, the only person to clearly tell me anything before I read here, so when I read the Fabio thread I saw it as a from-Fabio-to-Fabio link in my life. I thought his story might have been a one-off thing, none of my business, and I put it away and didn't ask questions of other people. I'd hear grumblings and rumblings here and there about stuff, but it was all couched in "spiritual" terms and parables - maybe i didn't have ears to hear?! Golly, that's something to chew on. Thank you again, Mr. P-tucket and everybody.

It makes sense to me, it's just a little harder to say and write. I've been thinking of tedious puns to do with "mene, mene..." and "weigh(ay)ed," but nothing that trips off the tongue. Or "strangers/strange land." Oh, "Strangers' Inn"! Or, just in fun, for all you technical people who set this place up and allowed me in, what about "I, Teapot"?

What a clever poem - and it scans!

It certainly is a winding road - I never imagined I could become fond of a squirrel who drinks a bit and talks about past lives :P Thanks for that video, I hadn't ever seen it.