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Tommyz- If she belives that her healing can only come from God She might checkout the statu of BG Leonard this is a link to his website. BG Leonard BG Leonards Gifts of the spirit class was the souce of much oft he PFAL series. Perhaps some one who has taken it can minister to her. There are still people who can minister miraculous healings even if it has to be by phone. Ask Dot Matrix over at LES or search for her story here.

Jeff I don't know if JAL fully supports this but you might want to ask him. Perhaps he can clarify it I'd love to see a clear answer. This is a document on their site: in reference to Jesus Christ http://christianeducational.org/faq/v4i6b.pdf I learned about it on this thread at LES http://mail.bluzecentral.net/smf/index.php?topic=36.0 I agree that Jesus Christ was a man. However CES seems to be over thinking it a bit. It almost seems in their so eagerness to show their skill using the keys to the Bibles interpretation and feed people with itching ears something new (to keep up membership and donations?) that they have so thoroughly proved that Jesus was a man that they are like the aeronautical engineers who could prove on paper that it is impossible for a bee to fly.

Sir guess- well I see your improved Knowles breathing has caused some of the smoldering embers to flare up. It is a great visualization exercise. Would you call it a Tea-Chi exercise, or a Tea-ching technique? :)--> (These puns would probably get me kicked off the Tea-Gong show)

This causes theme song from CSI: to run through my mind. You know “Won’t be Fooled Again” by the Who. But this is about CES right? If you are interested in joining this "camaraderie of the committed" be sure to take JAL up on his suggestion to check them out and see how well they are applying the keys to the bibles interpretation and why they think VP would be so proud. This is a document on their site: in reference to Jesus Christ the glue that knits them together and whom they stand for: http://christianeducational.org/faq/v4i6b.pdf I learned about it on this thread at LES http://mail.bluzecentral.net/smf/index.php?topic=36.0 "Won't be fooled again!" - Fade to commercial ... :)-->

I thought I’d Quote from Sir Guessalot -This is from the forth post on the second page of the an interpretation of tongues that he linked to earlier. This was originally written in Feb of 2004. It looks like he agreed with you: As for my opinion I don’t think LCM is the Anti-Christ or that TWI is The Ministry of Satan partly be cause it simply gives them to much credit- LCM and the ministry simply aren’t that significant in the over all affairs of the world, God and satan. They could be described as anti-Christ though because they taught and acted from wrong doctrine and still don’t have appeared to have genuinely repented and begun to restore themselves and moved onwards much less back upwards. I also don’t think that Satan had to work all that hard to deceive VPW, LCM, the ministry or you or I when we were an active, willing part of it. We pretty much did it to ourselves, because it is our nature. This is because we were limited by the primary assumptions of this ministry which of course came from VPW. This also led to the fascination with devil spirits. The two primary assumptions that I think lead to this are that first there is only one correct interpretation to the Bible, and second that there were a system of logical rules that could be applied to find it. This comes back to human nature seeking to understand by organizing, defining and setting relationships in order to understand “The Truth”. We love to make lists and connect them in patterns to connect the dots so to speak. We seek order and rationality to discern cause and effect so we might be able to control them or at least avoid pain and also some of us do it because we wish to know God and our relationship with him and our place in His creation. We usually fail to realize that the more rigorously and precisely we define these lists and their relationships to the exclusion of any others that we have probably limited or understanding of the Whole Truth of the truths we seek. Several years before I became involved with TWI and in the mid seventies I read a book called: Alternate Realities: The Search for the Full Human Being by Lawerence Leshawn. In this book he listed four or five different belief systems that he saw in the world and an ideal new one that I consider the foundation for “New Age Thinking”. Each reality had a set of rules or assumptions. The thing that struck me was they all had the same last rule. The last rule was always: This is the only valid reality, all other realities are invalid. Sound like TWI? All cults are like this, but so are societies. From this I have defined what I call alternate reality 22- after catch 22 by J Heller. I looked up this explanation of catch 22 at http://www.bellmore-merrick.k12.ny.us/catch22.html Catch 22- This also reminded me of TWI and the fact that there are stated rules in an alternate reality and unstated, hidden or denied rules (if you point it out you are punished and shown how wrong you are) in cults. Catch 22 was one of these rules in TWI. Anyhow Alternate Reality 22 has only two rules: First- There is no single valid reality. Second and last- This is the only valid reality, all other realities are invalid :)--> I now use this reality to remind me to stay flexible and shift my personal alternate realities. Now to apply this to the devil spirit fascination of TWI, I remember in the old Renewed Mind class about the correct and incorrect ways to stop thinking about hamburgers. Don’t tell yourself not to think about hamburgers, think about something completely different. But with devil spirits we kept being reminded of devil spirits. Part of the beliefs I remember having about TWI that I think were widely accepted and promoted by leadership (even today I expect) were that “we” were not religious because God despised religion and it was mans attempt to perfect himself. “We” focused on the spiritual not the physical. “We” were the church of grace, not of the law. “We” found genuine liberty by learning to walk in love, not the bondage of walking by the five senses in fear. “We” worshiped God in spirit and truth and did not commit idolatry. Because there is only one way to rightly divide the Word of God, and we can and have discovered the keys to its self interpretation, we can tell you with scientific exactness and mathematical precision what it says about anything that pertains to life and godliness. Therefore we can tell you exactly how should act, and think so that we can all be a clone of Christ and we can all enter a paradise on earth today that we are going to call the faithful household of the prevailing word and if you don’t do it its your own damn fault! Because you are possessed since to not want or be able to follow along with us can only be due to devil spirit influence. By trying to precisely define the walk of the spirit, it became a walk in the flesh, By focusing on the characteristics, abilities, methods and devices of devil spirits we ended up “discerning” them every where all the times. Thus we magnified them, worshiped and idolized them. They became a source of fear motivation not love and we were so busy trying to find and avoid the things that carried them we were walking by the five senses. The only way to keep up was to keep tapping in to the teachings and rely on the spiritual maturity of way corpse leadership. And in their quest to achieve this grand quest they drove rather than lead us and kept us chasing our own tails to get the devil spirits off our own backs faster and faster, thus farther from the grace of God for we could not be still. Thus TWI manifested Job 3:25 “For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.” as a result of catch 22. I think that this occurs when ever a rigid Alternate Reality inevitably reconciles itself with the genuine, complete reality that cannot be defined by any belief system that includes the universal last rule- This is the only valid reality, all others are invalid.

I remember talk of a blue thread- beliving thread for instance I think Abraham was the Blue thread in Genesis - the father of all that believed.

Pat and others- I have been looking thru Revelations lately and wanted to add this outline as something to stimulate conversation concerning “good spirits” From the Amplified Bible- I Christ reveals himself to John Rev1:1-20 II Christ portrayed to the seven churches Rev2:1-3:22 III Christ as related to the world Rev4:1-16:21 A. The heavenly throne Rev 4:1-5:14 B. The seven seals Rev 6:1-8:5 C. The seven trumpets Rev 8:6-11:19 D. The seven figures Rev 12:1- 14:20 E. The bowls of wrath Rev 15:1-16:21 IV Christ the Victor Rev 17:1-20:3 A. Babylon judged Rev 17:1-19:10 B. Beast and false prophet judged Rev 19:11-21 C. Satan judged Rev 20:1-3 V Christ in the eternal kingdom Rev20:4-22:5 A. Millennial reign Rev 20:4-6 B. Rebellion and judgments Rev 20:7-15 C. New Heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem For instance in Rev 6:1-8 the four horsemen each called forth by one of the four living creatures.- Are all eight “good spirits” even if as in the case of the fourth horseman it is given the power and authority over a forth part to kill? Rev 5:11 many angels and living creatures and the elders and they numbered 10,000 times 10,000 and thousands of thousands (over 100 million). Is that all the good spirits? Sir Guess- how would you change this outline to fit with your understanding of Rev? In particular I am also curious as to how the latter sections IV and V with judgements, millennia, and the new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem fit. I am not trying to antagonize only act as a foil asking so you may answer, if you choose :)-->

Pat- I have a couple of theories on the white pebbles with a name on them known only to the holder and God. One is that in that culture the citizens of a city such as Ephesus would have a small stone from the land that signified their citizenship. Partly it represents citizenship in God’s spiritual kingdom. I view the “secret” names in a couple of ways. First it is God’s own term of loving endearment expressing His unique love for each of the individuals. Like you may call your children “pumpkin” or “sugar” only even more personal. Second using the internet as an example, It is a unique address that God uses to communicate to the individual. I think good spirits have a unique name and that connection already. As much as I would like to know the names of the “good spirits” I don’t think that they can be found in the Bible or anywhere else. I think this primarily because it would lead to idolatry- where the spirits would become worshipped. I can’t think of anywhere in the bible where angles appeared and gave a name: only fear not and a message.

My 3- I'm using mozzila- when I clicked a window came up and ask what I wanted to do- I saved it to disk and then executed it. I d got a warning about exe files also. Clunky but safe- at least you have to thing about what you are doing.

Krys- I just switched to mozilla because of all the IE warnings and the advice on this board- I had used it before- it is excellent at blocking popups- I haven't had one since I switched back. It has interchangable skins and one is supposed to be just like IE. Mozilla doesn't take mutch tweaking it can be a lot like IE in look and feel if you want. It is good at asking you if you want to do things for specific sites also. I have heard that firefox is probably the most secure at this time.

I ran a search on the seven fold holy spirit and found this: http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-E-3.htm the article refers to the Spirit of the Lord upon the messiah in Isa 11:2 1. the spirit of wisdom 2. and understanding, 3. the spirit of counsel 4. and might, 5. the spirit of knowledge 6. (Obedient & Reverental) fear of the LORD I wonder if the "seventh spirit" might be described as God's love for His children? a search of "The Spirit of the Lord" found The spirit of the Lord upon Isaiah (Partly quoted by Jesus in Matthew) Isa 61:1 & Isa 61:2 1. to preach good tidings unto the meek 2. to bind up the brokenhearted 3. to proclaim liberty to the captives 4. the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound 5. To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD 6. the day of vengeance of our God 7. to comfort all that mourn (Sounds a little like what happens at the cafe to me) ;)--> I think Sir guess has a fascinating insight and original thought on this topic and I am trying to understand it. I wanted to share some biblical references that may help my own and others understanding :)-->

sirguessalot- do you also see a correlation with "the redemtive names of God" in the old testament also?

Pat you might try looking thru the bluelight bible commentaries to see if any of them help your understanding of this. Here is a link to one of the commentaries that refers to Rev 1:4 http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1...74714-2426.html There are many references here, some are audio teachins from the 1990s. The one I linked is from 1871, I believe.

Johnur- how could you tell? -->

Good night dear sister lay down and take your rest, won't you lay your head upon your saviors breast. We love you but Jesus loves you the best so we bid you goodnight goodnight goodnight

Galen wrote: Is that what submariners call "blowing sanitary"? Sounds like a great way to leak test your drains. Ever forget to block all them before that exercise?

Galen- I had just considered the problem as part of life and why the french developed Bidets These toilets won't splash and the centrex model shoud be tall have enough height to accomidate the angles and dangles of an ex submariner like yourself :D--> http://www.promolife.com/products/compostt...1.htm?iorb=4764

I would like to chime in on this. I like to think that I had a good if not excellent marriage. We both agreed to keep it on a biblical basis as taught by twi from the beginning. So yes I was the “boss” and she would submit to my decisions. But I remembered our marriage was to be an example of the mystery and that my charge was to love my wife as Jesus Christ loved his church, which I understood to be Israel, so I used the gospels as an example. From a practical stand point this meant that if my wife wanted to do something like go out to dinner and I wanted to sit at home and watch TV, I should take her to dinner and record a show if it was that important to me. I believed Christ would do just about anything to “bless” his church as long as it wasn’t “off the Word”. A major example of this occurred after we were married a couple of years. One of Sue’s aunts died suddenly in Florida, we lived in Atlanta. She told me it was very important to here to go down for the funeral to represent her family who could not make it. I agreed to it because it was important to her. Also I felt that as my wife/best friend/companion I could should and wanted to discuss any major decision with her. We would talk about it, and I would tell here why I made a decision, (once again isn’t that what JC did with his church?) and always left the door open to change (trying it her way) if it did not work out. Sue did cheat though, if she felt my decision was wrong or that I wasn’t ready to make a decision she would pray about it until I came around. As far as I know it worked every time. Her mother had been a nag and she had seen how it contributed to the destruction of her parent’s marriage. I remember getting complementary comments by people when we with twi, but we or at least I got several more after we left, they saw me being a “good husband” some missed the fact that I couldn’t do it without a “spiritually great wife” even if she was in a wheel chair.

Mark- I have an old power pc with mac os9- It works fine and set itself up witout any problems runs along side my windows computers fine.. I have linksys wireless B router and a westell dsl modem. If your router is using dhcp any type of computer, windows mac or linux should work fine on the same network as far as internet access. getting them to recognize each other and share files is more complicated. Actually if you have an external modem like the westell you might be able to go in and configure it yourself using your web browser to run multiple computers. Then you would just need a switch or hub.

Uncle Harry- You reminded me of "Christians made me Prosperous" How to set up your own religon for fun and profit.

Exe, JT thanks- I'll try some more as I can think of them The Word's of Weirdwille's Way (or the Highway!) or how I maintain control over a cult, and have them thank me for it!

Tom- I have an old linksysB. In addition to wep and changing passwords, I have turned off dhcp and static routed my network. I use an non standard network IP, and I use a 255.255.255.248 mask- this allows only 6 valid IP addresses. If I have all my computers and print servers on. there is no available IP address to get on the network- great excuse for toys.

Refiner – if you want to collect VPW’s books and possibly other little know and out of print books you might want to try Alibris.com a used book website I use as an alternative to Amazon. Alibris is often cheaper. Here is a link to the stuff they have by VPW: http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author...20Victor%20P%2E Unfortunately they don’t include his lesser works: Deceiving the Holy Spirit Today (originally by Aninias and Saphira) Order my Steps for the motor coach from JC Whitney’s Catalog (How to build a rolling party palace with other peoples money) Jesus Christ, was that our Overpass? Travel log of VPW and his motor coach on tour in the 60’s and 70’s Pickup Lines: Quotations of Victor Paul Weirille God’s Mangled Word Includes the foundational doctrine: Adultery is not a sin! :)--> :)--> :)-->

Yeah thats the place.

Galen- Sorry I meant Submarine sandwiches, if you were in Groton, you remember grinders. If I remember there was a great restaurant that was Greek and near the base and had the best pizza and grinders. My dad went to sub school in late '52. I was a toddler. He was on diesel boats for a while. (I remember the smell- I loved it because t was where my father worked) He was a naval architect and EDO with dolphins. He retired in the 60's and worked at Electric Boat. I went to junior high and high school there.