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Watered Garden -I hope you get better. I wss thinking of taking a natural cloesterol reducer. Does anyone know if either of these is likely to be safe? http://www.menshealthtech.com/cholesterol_care.htm http://www.bodyalivehealth.com/products/ch...ol_solution.htm Also a note on "Grinders". In Conneticut and Massachssets where I used to live, a Sub was a cold sandwich like a rost beef or ham and cheese sub. A grinder was the same sandwich but they would bake it in a pizza oven for about 5 minutes.

Welcome- Refiner has quickly become a refreshing regular to this cafe. I hope you do too. It is great to have NBW (never been way) here particularly as we see how much we have in common with others who have left groups like JW.

Hi Janis- welcome I remember Donnie and Patty- they were great, Donnie was the minister for my wedding. I think you and I have posted back and forth on the way yahoo group.

Mike as refineer has pointed out, if you did not exist here we would have to invent you. (perhaps thats what you are) . Of course the same could be said of God and the devil. ;)-->

Exe- If I remember PNP stands for plug and pray, ;)--> Because you pray it don't PNE- plug and explode

Can we sing and butcher songs like Tennesee Jed (by the Grateful Dead) at the wennie roast at night instead of wake up to Beautiful Ohio? Tennessee, Tennessee There ain't no place I'd rather be Baby won't you carry me Back to Tennessee Drink all day and rock all night Law come to get you if you don't walk right Got a letter this morning and all it read: You better head back to Tennessee, Jed Tennessee, Tennessee Ain't no place I'd rather be Baby won't you carry me Back to Tennessee

I often wished that I could hijack the PA one morning at he rock and instead of beautiful ohio have jefferson Airplane from The Woodstock Album with Grace Slick opening up with "Good Morning Campers, and now for some morning maniac music", and then into one of their songs. That would have been priceless. :)-->

son of god with all power- sogwop Bless Patrol

Pat- How about where are the 500 ar 15's and what are they for? ask for their serial numbers. do they have tac-triggers for them so they fire automaticly? why? How many rounds of ammo and magazines do they have for them? Is there still a pile of silverdollars in the new knoxville bank? what is the status and amount of the offshore abs from the 70's and 80's, I remember it was never going to be repatriated. What is their current membership. what has it been each year for the last 10 years? how do they determine memberhip- abs class attendance twig participation or what? How many active way corps and what are their assignments?

Mark one last thing- if you do use msconfig it will remind you that you made these changes every time you restart the computer unless you check a button telling it to sht up.

Mark- the programs can be controlled by using a program called msconfig to access the program go to the start button then cleck the run button and type msconfig into the window and hit return msconfig will come up. go to the start window and you will see a mess of programs listed and checked. you can uncheck any one you want. a good way to tell if a rogram is something you want to run at startup look at the programs file location. I would leave everything that is the windows folder alone. Anyothers are fair game, normally you would want an antivirus and firewall if you are on a dsl or cable. (firewalls aren't as important on dialups because your address changes every time you connect and you usually aren't hooked up all the time). Msconfig is in windows98, xp and I think ME. not with 2000(it has other programs). I don't think win 98 is supported by microsft so automatic update may not be possible any more. If the computer is new enough to run windows 2000, I would seriously look at updating the OS or take the linux plunge (which is easy and free). Another thing would be to defrag the disk as that may be wy performance has slowed down A good source of more info on msconfig is kim komandos archives http://www.komando.com I always learn somthing in her weekly emails also. Good luck Curt

White dove- now I finaly see what it means to "spank the monkey" and I thought it was something entirely different.

Sadly like Ex- I have to say No - because I was an almost complete way bran, just not a strong enough way brain to be permitted to stay. I had bought the lie that they were right and I was wrong when I was in and even after I left in 95-96. Even after that until '02 or so when I stared looking around on the internet and found my fellow greasespots I still accepted that lie.

does 1 block at Gunnison count?

Ex- I jus re-read Johns paper he says Also that he had been on staff in the research dept for 6 years and belirved in the system when he handed it in- he was following their guidelines for research.

Refiner no not every one was allowed at the table: Here are two examples that I mentioned on anothe thread about how I saw sex handled in the field:

Before VPW died and "the fog years", I stayed in because I believed that twi was God's only true ministry. I believed then that if I had stayed in residence I probably have become a "tripped out grad" because of all the .... that I suspected was being flung around. My soon to be wife and I discussed leaving but I felt that there would not be a genuine replacement until the original completely failed.(little did I know) My role model was Sgt. Schultz- we actively believed not to get stuff mailed to us or hear things. Then during the mid 90's it got harder and harder to be a "good" beliver. If I had known that it was possible to live outside the minisrty we would have gladly left but we believed that it was not. As LCM declared the word had gone over the world our "cult alarm" sounded. But The known pain of staying was beter the unknown horrors of leaving. As the Homo witch hunts and WC clean up began and the WOW and Rock was canceled I could see the highway of holiness narrowing to a knife edge that would become imposible for me to walk, still I hung on. I had a mental image of myself as a gold fish in a blender, looking at a hand on a switch. It was from a Cartoon- the caption was "you think youv'e got stress". Because fear of the unknown was greater than the fear and pain of continued fellowship, we stayed till they flipped the switch. It was actually a relief- on the way home from our last twig we stopped and rented a movie- one we wanted to see, I remember it was Brave Heart. Looking back I think the last scene where Mel has his guts ripped out while he shouts "freedom" was very apt. It was what our last years in TWi were like.

A point to remember with using a DVD burner as an external drive with USB2 or Firewire- I did this originally with a Sony (liteon). Some of my DVD burning software did not recognize it as a DVD burner only CD. (I suspect I nnneded driver but could not find the right ones.) When I mounted the DVD internally it worked fine.

One I remember being used jokingly at Gunnison as an interim year Corps assigment That came to pass with LCM and RFR. Stump Coordinator- as opposed to twig, branch, limb or TRUNK Coordinator. It meant to take a healthy functioning growing group and destroy it. Bowl Patrol- Nickname for the crews that serviced the toilets at the Rock of Ages or other large events.

One I remember being used jokingly at Gunnison as an interim year Corps assigment That came to pass with LCM and RFR. Stump Coordinator- as opposed to twig, branch, limb or TRUNK Coordinator. It meant to take a healthy functioning growing group and destroy it. Bowl Patrol- Nickname for the crews that serviced the toilets at the Rock of Ages or other large events.

Refiner - that sounds like me also- try the mocha latte thunder from down under.

Refiner- Hi and welcome, I have read and posted in your topic. I am curious did the numbering system also work back from the birth of Issac to the original creation? Why did they consider The birth of Issac to apparently be pivotal? Also to share some contrasts with you on TWI doctrine. Jesus Christ is supposedly actually born on tishiri(Spelling?) 1 3BCE (Sept 11,3 BC) This is based on a series of planetary conjunctions that occurred at that time and a verse in revelation that describes a full moon in Virgo which was the event lunar event that identified that day on the jewish calender,I think. Also if I remember TWI teaches that Christ began his ministry at age 30, It lasted only one year, and pentcost occured forty days later. Also an English miminster (E.W. Bullinger) wrote a book on the significance of numbers in scripture that was popularized by TWI leadership within the ministry.

Welcome refiner- You asked if TWI revises and or burns its materials- the answer is yes. Before I left the minstry in 1995 I was told and helped to destroy all my materials, tapes books etc. from before about 1992. The classes to teach TWI doctrine were reworked, renamed and re-released in about 1995. One reason why you may have been asked by another poster is because we have occasionaly had a "drive by poster" who often arrives with provocative topics and then promotes their own doctrine or agenda. It appears to me that you only agenda is fellowship and curiosity which is always welcome and refreshing. Like the philosphers on mars hill we are always looking for something new to discuss. ;)-->

Imbus- Thanks

Lorna- some one else wondered if he was a drive by poster. If you look up his posts, It makes me wonder if he was one too. Given the topics he started it almost looks like he was on a fishing expedition, he got what he was looking for and moved on. I wonder if he was from TWIM? I wish him well.