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Hi Refiner good to see you back

It could also be rather harmless- I used to deliver pizzas and there were many times when I would deliver the pizza and forget where I was and how to get back to the pizza shop- I would not be able to remember until I started to back out of the drive and then I knew exactly how I got there and how to get back. It freaked me out the first couple of times. I told other drivers about it and they had had the same thing happen. I think in my case it had to do with how the memories were stored. More off of visual and motion cues than a visualized map if that makes any sense. I could not access the memory until I began to move and then it was there. Check with the doctor obviously.

Tom- there's nothing wrong with that, You might want to add a little wor at wal mart or mcdonalds because they could get you good health insurance and even long term care insurance.

Yep it good stuff

Littlehawk- I think you are looking at two different points that I made and combining them because I wasn't clear enough. The 4.75% was the miminum you had to take from an IRA say $4,750 for each $100,000 The next year you would have to take a larger percentage of the remainder. If you had not taken all the money out before you were 110 you would have to take the rest the next year. Most people would have depleted a 500k to 1 mil retirement in 20 to 25 years A significant part of the withdrawls are going to taxes. If you had the money in an IRA today and were less than the required age like in your 40's or 50's you would be penalized for an early withdrawl on top of taxes. If you wanted to retire today and had 500,000 invested outside of an IRA (like a mutual Fund for example) at 6% you could take 5% which is $25,000 pay taxes on it and live on the rest, then take 5% next year and take a slightly larger amount every year indefinetly because the account is growing by an effective 1%. If you can do that go for it, I'd be happy for you. If you had that kind of money though you might want to do realestate like Galen does. It would probably have a good effective rate of return and stable income stream- It would not be as liquid and managing might make for a working retirement.

I'm Headin down home to sweet home LA (Lower Alabama) for a couple of days I've been prommised some country fried steak w mashed taters and Ribeye and probably some fresh catfish from the dock, You say when well have a BBQ. It won't even be BYOB (bring your own bubba/bubbete) y'all come on down hear. Make it durring the summer and we'll picknick at the light show and fireworks. And I aint takin bout watchin the neighbors cookin out at their trialer neither

Gaylen- Thanks. You found the info I was looking for & I downloaded the IRS doc. I hope these examples you and I are playing with doesn't cause everyones eyes to glaze over because they need to understand this stuff or it will may cause them much anguish in later years. It shows what I was talking about-the required age to finish withdrawl is 111 and the requirements would force most people to deplete their accounts much sooner - probably by 85 or 90 for most people. The only way to slow it down is to use the required minimum which will effectively force you to live on less each year during your retirement. The reason for this is that using the life expectancy as a divisor is increasing the required percentage of withdrawl each year I used table 1- single beneficiary for simplicity At age 65 it is 4.76% at age 70 it is 5.88% at age 80 it is 9.80% at age 90 it is 18.2% at age 100 it is 34.48% at age 111 and over it is 100% As soon as the required minimum withdrawl exceeds the rate of return of your IRA, your IRA begins to lose value very fast A real good long term average return is around 6% with realitively low risk If you wanted a steady income indefinetly you would normaly only take 5% or less (which I believe Roths allow). This is why I say the Ira regulations force you to deplete your account. I realize thats a lot of numbers but I hope you can see my point.

Well down here in Ga SWF means Single Wide Folks Most of us Bubbas and Bubettes are DWF- Double Wide Folks Should be plenty of room for you come on down and we'll fill you out with BBQ and such :)-->

lae- my dad lives in Anapolis. I'll shoot you an email when I go up to vist. Also if you get down to hotlanta maybe a few of us could get together. Also try for the weenie roast in Oct in Ten

LLPOF- Your manner of starting this thread reminds me of a story I heard long ago- It was about WWII combat veterans like those you might have seen in Band of Brothers. On the troop ship going home after the war the army was trying to help these hardened combat veterans get accustomed to the fact they were about to re-enter civilian life so they had the officers giving, boring lectures. Naturally, many would doze off in the stuffy troop transports. The topic was etiquette. The exasperated and equally bored officer had just told of the proper way to enter a room when accompanying a woman. He poked one of the sleeping soldiers and yelled what is the proper way to enter a room. The startled soldier immediately responded: Roll a grenade in first Sir! It seems like that’s what you did, and perhaps why Judging by your handle and this topic you seem to have an obsession about lies. Therefore I assume also with “Truth” which you seem to want to wield as a sword. Let me share something I heard about the sword of truth. It has three edges- One is the truth you perceive, another is the truth I perceive and the third edge is the actual absolute truth. To you only one edge is truth and to me another. Both other edges are lies to each of us including the actual absolute truth that we both seek. Please sheath your sword that we may sort out the perceptions of truth and embrace the genuine truth we seek. Who said you can never learn any thing from TV or Sci Fi? :)-->

Hey Roy- When I took the First Pfal Class I think it was 200. Over the years between classes advanced class specials, Abs and donating to the Auditorium, SNS tapes, The Way MAg and books it was a lot- I was a good source of revenue. :)-->

Evan- That is beautiful, I enjoyed the way the acoustic amdience made it sound like you were playing in my living room.of the room you recorded it in. I am not very knowledgeable about classical music. I enjoy The Brandenburg Conchertos but don't many other clasical styles. It sounded like you were playing the cello like a guitar is that what you were doing? Here is a cool toy you may enjoy using http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/flash.aspx I have a 700 series it has a built in Mic and also line in- Line in is CD quality- The mic is voice- on mine. (it should be pssible to Cd Quality Mic input if you wanted). It Records in a format simmilar to MP3. You connect it to a computer, Up load convert and and voila. The puppy is just a little bigger than you thumb.

Galen and others- the penalties I was talking about are for not withdrawing it soon enough or fast enough- I am not sure because I am still trying to get reliable info but it appears to me that one possible scenario is that you can out live a retirement account- even if or especially if you have a lot of money in it because it may all have to be withdrawn by a certain age- I am thinking 85 or 90. More and more people are living longer and longer. Essentially it has to be pulled out and by a certain age and taxed then the "Surplus" needs to be put into some kind of savings account. Then you would have to be very carful how to live on the remainder when you are say 95-110.

Wonder1- I realize it will probably be a day or two till you respond and you won't hang around long. But two more things are bugging me and I hope you can understand- First I have shared my heart and life openly and freely and lovingly to you on some of your topics. I don't feel you have reciprocated. Finaly I wonder if you have posted this topic because it has been a couple of weeks since anything has been posted on any of the lawsuit threads- or is that just a coincidence?

Wonder1- welcome back. We were wondering what happened to you- Haven’t heard from you since early June. Why are you interested in what is known here about lawsuits? I note this is your 10th post. Your first post on May 16 was to a thread that was a month old concerning the peeler lawsuit. The posts after your post to that thread did not say anything meaningful to your question—Why were you interested? On May 19 you started a thread titled - Is the ministry perfect? Why did you want our opinion on this? - A casual glance at threads as you searched through just to find the peeler case thread should give you an excellent idea of what ex TWI site forum members think about TWI You responded on that thread a few times every couple of days until June 3 when you stopped posting here. On May 22 you started two more Topics. One was How many lawsuits are there? -- Why do you want to know? The other was What is the real purpose of this Website? I know I am repeating myself Why do you want to know? Particularly since it is linked to the main menu on the home page. Wonder1- I for one wonder who you are and what you quest is, your profile is a blank. Do you see a pattern to you posts? I do. I went into this detail so it was there for all who read this thread to see. Would you care to sit down and have a cup of java and color in the pattern? Enquiring minds want to know. What have you been up to since your last visit to the caf?BR>Things have been pretty wild here while you were gone.

(((((Digger)))) you have every right to feel such anger and pain. I have been healing from my time in TWI. I wish a speedy and complete deliverance and may God restore unto you a double portion of all you have lost- including an new companion to be the love of you life.

Galen and others- A book you might be interested in is called Missed Fortune by Douglas R. Andrews. He has some interesting ideas on managing home equity, home buying strategies and secure investment ideas that are tax advantaged. I will be using some of his ideas for my self. One thing I suggest people do is get educated on the payout requirements on your IRA's and pensions. From what I understand there are serious penalties if you aren't carefull.

The dinner scene with Brenda and here mother was great- the way the art teacher hated being a pet but still did it- perfect hypocrite

Roy- you are a blessing and inspirtion. I am reading through this thread and digesting it slowly. There is so much. Be happy to talk about it but I don't know what to say right now. God's Peace

Ex- I don't consider any site enemy territory- I haven't joined JW sites simply because I haven't felt like it. I'm trying to have a life on the side :)-->

Tom- I liked this one too- more possibilities are being brought in

I’m Glad you liked it. Let me add a couple of more points that may illuminate the situation in Iraq and the Islamic world as I see it The Islamic empire spread rapidly from what is now Saudi Arabia in all directions thru the middle and Far East and northern Africa. Over time It splintered because of its size and human nature. The smaller splinters were conquered by larger stronger ones until there were two Moslem empires, One based in Egypt and one based in Turkey (The Ottoman Empire) The Egyptian empire was conquered by Napoleon in the 1800’s and then absorbed by Britain when they defeated him In world war one The Ottoman empire sided with the Austro Hungarian Empire (Germany) against France, England, and the US. “Democracy vs. Divine Right to Rule” The ottomans lost and England took control of their Empire. That’s a quick crude sketch but here is what I think it has left in the regions like Iraq. They were once part of a great empire that decayed and was conquered- They were under British colonial influence for less than 50-100 years or not even one life time. Egypt and Palestine and India/Pakistan were under colonial rule for 100-200 years at least two if not three generations and this is probably how long it takes for the concepts of self government to take root. One last point- all types governments are actually a form of Oligarchy- which is rule by a privileged few- even the good old USA (both leading candidates are definitely from that group – their only difference is what part of the voter base will vote for them- either way born and breed Oligarchs are in power). “Democracy” is not really what is needed to actually achieve the ideal of our goals in Iraq. The actual keys to individual prosperity and freedom for the “common people”- Those outside the oligarchy are these: First A legal system that provides equal protection for all. Second a stable monetary system and third free market capitalism. Through out recorded history empires have risen thru conquest and stayed healthy as long as and to the degree that that these three ideals were achieved and maintained. When these three were at their height in the Moslem empires they were at their Peak- During the Middle ages in Europe! Persia, Egypt, The OT Hebrews, Rome, England, China, Japan are other examples. The form of government is immaterial in my humble opinion.

hidden message to WayGB- Beware MEN IN BLACK will penetrate HQ security.

Pmosh- I think the difference is that in the middle east it isn't Just a religion- It is a theocracy it is the religion and the government and the legal system all in one. Like OT hebrew culture- to change the political system is a direct attack on the religion. The fact that the religion and political and financial all are controled by a few who can hide their personal interests behind religion just makes it worse. As a note I think that Modern Israel is a Parlimentary democracy because it was founded primarily by european Jews- They had a european understanding of and comfort with that form of government that middle easterners of either hebrew or islam would not have.

Thanks