Stayed Too Long

mj412 said: I know that is right you would move to the higher class neighborhood next door where such things are never done( money or class what is the defining line for you?) or in the very least put on in a public display for all to read right Krystal ? that is what herb and I spoke about when we talked about the ignoring or lulling one into a mind of safety in a neighborhood out of chosen ignorance on the subject. ________________________________________________ I don't think money or class has anything to do with this. You seem to insinuate that poorer people or those in the middle/lower classes are being singled out as child molesters. And that once a molester is discovered you move to an upper class neighborhood. To me you seem to think people believe lower/middle class are molesters. And once someone finally 'realizes' this, they believe theirnly salvation is the upper neighborhoods? Am I way off base??..please correct me if I am wrong. herbiejuan said: ________________________________________________ I think posting pics lulls folks into a false sense of security. Many times (as evidenced by the ongoing RC scandel) child molesters remain undiscovered, sometimes for their whole lives. Often times these people seek out and hold positions that place them in close contact with children (teachers, ministers, rec dept employees) and use their authority and implied power to silence or shame their victims. So to think that those three men (or women) are the only perps in the neighborhood is delusional. ________________________________________________ If you go into any post office you will see the pictures of all kinds of criminals that are wanted. Does this mean that only those posted at the time are the only criminals at the time? Of course not and I don't think anyone is silly enough to think that way. Just because a child molester' picture is posted does not mean people would think they are the only potential molester's in the area. We need to be aware of these people so we can protect our children.

Without a doubt being able to forgive myself was a very necessary element to living peacefully with myself. Anymore I evaluate my actions and thoughts as objectively as I can, and give myself a pat on the back for successful ones, and go very easy on myself if I don't measure up. Sometimes I make an effort to do better the next time and other times I don't. Although I fail many times quite often I make it over the hurdle. Approaching life with this attitude has enabled me to better myself like never before. Now I am accomplishing things never imaginable before. My way of looking at the the day is this: Live today with a balance, not expecting too much from myself or cutting myself short either. Look forward to the future with excitement and expectation. Neither yearn for nor condemn myself for the past. Sure works wonders for me!!

will some please pass the cream and sugar.......? Thanks.......... (clink, clink).........oh, sorry I interrupted you Mike, guess I lost my stayed mind for a minute there. You were saying?????? "I like Mike, I like Mike, I like Mike, YAAAAAA MIKE."

SunshineRain Welcome to the cafe!! Don't be too concerned about the posts here. You'll probably be battle hardened in not to short a period of time. Not alot of people here intersted in discussing the word (Mike will throw Wierwille around with you though.) Most posters are just glad to be out of the clutches of TWI, and getting reinforced and built up with others here. Usually discussions of The Way and how they mistreated people dominate here, but Iraq took front and center the last few weeks. "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

French Kiss "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

French_Kiss.jpg "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

Maybe the new servers GS is going to will have limited space and posts will be edited. [/b]]I really believe it is our only hope![/b] Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Larry--can I please change my vote to number 3: I never read anything he writes, so I don't care one way or another? Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Mike you said: "If we can see more exactly what went wrong, we can more exactly fix it. Isn't that the deeper purpose of what this place is all about?" To this question I give you a very emphatic NO! What went wrong was that TWI and Wierwille should have never happened in the first place. VPW never had an original thought. It was stolen from the work of others. In some cases he copied it word for word. In others he changed a few words in a sentence. I don't believe there are too many people at GS who are trying to see "If we can see more exactly what went wrong." And far fewer seeking to find out so "we can more exactly fix it." We know what went wrong and 'it' was a power hungry man with a lust for using woman for his own pleasure. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Mike you should do what we were taught as WOW's when no one would believe the word; shake the dust off our feet. We moved on hoping to find someone who would listen to us. There must be a mall you can witness in, a student union building at your local college, coworkers you can talk to, and if all else fails, door-to-door. Unless you can find a hidden message in what VPW taught WOW's about witnessing , he said to witness twice and then move on. You can take comfort in knowing it will better for Sodom and Gomorrah at the judgment than for us at the Greasespot Cafe. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

At least this is a break from the war posts. On second thought, I better go back to the war posts. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

With all the guns and ammo you have, this couldn't be a SHOTGUN WEDDING could it? Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

EWB The title just popped into my mind, but I used to listen to NPR so it makes sense that's where it came from. We do have similiar backgrounds coming from the RC church. It was really great for the first couple of years as all that guilt rolled off. But then all the legalism of twi began setting and it was just as bad. Thanks for praying for me :)--> Lindyhopper Things are going much, much better. Still have some things to sort out but they will come. Principles are principles no matter how or where you learned them. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Who was Martindale's secretary at Emporia who taught us English? Her first name was 'Pat'. She would have loved this thread!! :D--> :D--> :D--> Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

I pretty much did the two part thing also. Left in 79 and returned in 83 because I felt horribly bad about leaving. Hung around until 96 when they booted me. By the time they m&a'ed me I knew I had Stayed Too Long. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

I didn't realize I snored until my wife at the time mentioned it, but was always tired during the day even after sleeping all night. I went to the doc and he sent a technicion to my house at bed time, and had me hooked up to all sorts of measuring devices. All night this noisy little dot matrix printer recorded all my information on a role of paper tape. The doc interpreted it all to mean I stopped breathing at night (apnea). He attributed it to two things; 1): a deviated septum in my nose and 2): too much fat tissue on some kind of valve in my throat. He said he could remove it with a laser (quite expensive), or I could loose weight at it would clear itself up naturally. I choose to have surgery on my nose to have the septum straighten out, and too loose weight. It really worked. I feel rested in the mornings now. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Walker RC is Roman Catholic. Hey my mom might have been a 'Royal Cola' at sometime. She used to like to mix it with 'Crown Royale'. I know she used to get 'Royally P***ed' at me sometimes because I could be a 'royal pain'. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

I was born and raised a RC and attended all their schools. My mother was the RC and don't know what my dad was. At that time if a non-RC wanted to marry a RC in the church, he/she would have to agree to raising the children RC. So on Sundays all us kids would be carted off to church with mom while dad stayed at home. Upon graduating from high school about all I knew was guilt, condemnation, and sure that when I died I would go straight to hell. Since my religion really didn't help me much I stopped attending after high school. All this time of course wanting to find away to avoid going to hell. Then about 10 years later a guy from Ohio came along and said, "we are saved by grace, and not of ourselves, lest any man should boast". All I had to do was confess Rom 10:9&10 and I would never go to hell. WOW..the guilt just began melting off of my poor shoulders; I would avoid living with the devil for eternity. He didn't stop there either. He went on to say if I went out on a missionary program of his I would grow spiritually 10 years in 1. "Oh Yes Sir" I said, and after the first year decided this is so good, I'll do another. After two years I was becoming skeptical and didn't really think I had grown 20 years, but somehow I let them convince me that I had. And although I was saved by grace I had been introduced to the idea that now I was earning eternal rewards. And if I didn't do what my leaders instructed me or if I left the ministry all these rewards would be lost and I would receive nothing at the bema. "Okay" I thought, I sure don't want to go through eternity with no rewards from God. And it didn't end there. He said now I have a leadership training program I want you to attend where you will learn how lead God's people. My response was "I didn't have the money for tuition". But he said "all you have to do is believe God. If He has called you then He will provide the resources". I scraped up the first three months tuition and was accepted. I didn't want to go because I didn't have enough sponsorship after that but was assured that God would meet my needs. Of course after three months the money for the tuition was not there and was sent home and told I didn't believe God. This about devasted me and the condemnation really set it. I stayed away for 4 years and then decided to return because I knew at any turn God was going to kill me because I left His ministry. After returning some of the guilt left, but I really wasn't happy or fulfilled, and stayed so I would be sure and collect any rewards I had coming and wouldn't become a greasepot by midnight. Then when it was annouced that "the Word of God was now over the world", I was completely disallusioned. All I had to do was look around me, and only seeing 50 people in the entire state, knew that was a bunch of hooey. I stuck around for a couple of more years until I was m&a'ed. For a couple of years I was hard on myself for not staying. Then when all the sex scandal's broke loose I knew I'd done the right thing. I really am having a hard time believing in God the way I used to. I was so sure that The Way was God's ministry. Then to learn it was founded on plagurism really blew my mind. And all the sexual abuse that went on. How could I have been so wrong. Who really has the truth? How sure can I be that Jesus Christ is any better than Buddha, Mohammed, or anyone else? How do I know there really is a God? Maybe we did crawl out of the ocean one day and are ever evolving? That's where I am today with all things being considered. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

She was in the the 5th grade and 11 years old. Plus if one of the adults wanted to do something on their day off and no one else was available, she would have to accompany them. It was really boring to her.

Why would anyone remain in the Catholic church with full knowledge that their priest's molested and raped children? And these crimes were covered up by their Bishop's and Cardinal's? And their Pope finally made an attempt to rectify the situation only because of media attenion? Why do people commit crime just so they can be put in prison? Why do some people go from one abusive relationship to another? Probably for the same reason's people stay in twi. What are they? Some people like to abuse and some like to be abused. or it hasn't happened to them and they don't care. or they know it is happening but minimize it. or so believe in the organization they will stick by it, if only to ensure its survival. or their survival is completely dependent upon the organization's. or the way things are is comfortable and it is just too much effort to change. or it was good enough for my parents so it is good enough for me. or I made my bed and now I'll sleep in it. or you just don't give up on things. or I know there is good there some place. or It is my fault things aren't going right. or .....................

Thanks sooooo much for the insight Red. Since my daughter was also apart of twi since birth I can appreciate some of the things she has gone through. When my wife and I divorced she soon decided to go way disciple with our daughter. To this day my daughter has nothing good to say about the program. The coordinator, who was 19, was to be treated like god and gave advise on everything from child raising to studying in school. My ex was in her late 40's and a good mother, but apparently this young punk thought she understood things so much better. My daughter resented her overriding her mother's wishes all the time. She really hated the 'two by two' concept. Since she was the only child in the group, she would have to take an adult along when ever she visited school friends.

This is the year I really started "Staying Too Long". The Limb guy treated all the WOw's like his 'little corps'. He would teach us cool stuff only the Corps 'knew' at his place on Sundays. We had to sit at this feet on the floor while he taught from a little table smoking cigs. He told stupid jokes that we all laughed at. It was the first eye opening experience I had about how twi really was. Knew I should have split then, but Stayed wwwaaaaaayyyyy Too Long.

What memories....actually they are very good. I had a grrreat time in Worchester 76-77. Our families were very tight and got along fine. The woman in our families were mostly very good looking We all had great housing and pretty good jobs. The folks there loved us and always took care of us.