used like a chatroom? But Mike ... that IS discussion....and what these forums are all about, I think it is you who have a misunderstanding about the purpose of these forums, and are missing the great benefit and learning that you could be employing.
You wrote: ?But Mike, the nasty stuff was STILL what was in the heart and mind of the author, the error, the damaging doctrines... the manifestations of his fleshly nature....?
You?re going to have that with ANY teacher. At least with Dr it was a little more obvious. With other teachers their flaws can be oh so subtle.
And you don?t know the relative proportions of what went on in Dr?s mind. I see lots of love and care for people. I refuse to erase that.
********
You wrote: ?Simple skillfull editing through the years does not make it *Godly* direction.?
That?s RIGHT! It was inspiration and revelation, not mere 5-senses editing.
*******
You wrote: ?Once having realised that vpw was a flawed man of the flesh, with flawed doctrine....you are finally free to embark upon that learning path where The perameters and boundaries whithin which God is able to work are increased... ...Life is much better outside of that box.?
I tried this, on and off, over the decades. I did this when many in the Corps were insulating themselves from all else ionside the TVT box. I did this bigtime, and in an increasing fashion from 1987 to 1998. I?m DONE with trying this method. I came back to PFAL after seeing that there is NOTHING out there worth dedicating my life to ... NOTHING!
I?m very happy with the spaciousness of the PFAL paradigm. From your point of view outside PFAL this is not apparent. It?s only by coming back to PFAL that the greatness of what God did for us in that class is visible.
Mike likes to control . If he is denied he gets abusive. Just the way I read him. if he thinks you may have chance of hearing him he will stay relativly civil.
if your like me and a butch of other posters who have made it very clear we do not play his cat and mouse game, he is a nasty poster who will try to get you to stop posting anyway he can.
AAa mike AGain as much as you like to play the little games here I remind you we never had or will have a "relationship" other than this thread.
must have been your wife you no longer have and some kind of displacement issue ...
hey I get deep with ideas too!
you try to .... people off so they will not comment on you anymore then the illusion that its is your thread your control your words your world
your not very important really just as important as the rest of us ,maybe, so sorry your throne has deflated so far above us. Jesus christ throne still reigns !
Gee Mike, I guess no one reads my post either. Because I don't yet know how to puntuate and do paragraphs, and my spelling sometimes isn't too great either, but I do try. TO ALL MY FRIENDS IN G.S.CAFE....I'm so sorry that my spelling and puctuation is so atrocious (i'm sure i spelled atrocious wrong), Please forgive me. I will try to learn. .......by the way what does OLG stand for, i'm so stupid i don't even know that. Another thought came to me.....if pfal is God breathed, then God didn't give it to VPW, he gave it to B G Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles and all the others that VPW stole from. Victor just had the audacity to credit himself with "the God breathed word" that wasn't his to begin with. But I'm sure you will have an answer to this one too, as you seem to have all the answers. Post on Mike
quote:But remember that logic APPLIED well is the key to getting somewhere.
Why do I need to remember? This was my point - You should take your own advise here.
quote: Not all the data is in yet, so your rigorous application of logic is premature. This is like Steve?s question about Blue p.23-24, where not all the data was in yet. Still isn?t all in yet. Same with your more general criticism.
Data - Data - Data. It is always more data - that never comes. What you call data - I call opinions and theories. Data is the facts and information that can used to form a theory or make a conclusion - not the theory or conclusion itself.
quote:You?ve spent so much time and energy trying to pick away at my message when it?s not all even presented yet. Instead of trying to definitively shoot it down immediately, why not play with it and see where THAT line of logic takes you. At the least, you?ll have a more comprehensive data base in which to ultimately shoot it down if you break out of your hostile myopia, if only while waiting my ultimate data deliveries.
Not much time at all Mike, it took me only about 15 minutes to read your post and reply. You say it is not all presented. So What? What you have presented so far is more than enough in itself to make some pretty fair assessments. I HAVE played with it and found it wanting. But for you to be speaking of "comprehensive" databases is rather absurd when you reject and refuse to even look at real data that is not hidden between the lines in the contra-context of one of VPW's books. The only data you are interested in it that which supports your cause. Who is really myopic?
Remember too, that we are not so much the beings of logic and reason we strut ourselves to be. Do you have the rigorous formal logic that induces your belief in the Bible ready for typing out? How well will it do in the hands of an professional atheistic logician, the kind that?s easy to find on any large university campus these days.
Strawman. - Certainly belief in the Bible or even in God defies "rigorous formal logic". But the logic thats get you to the point where you really believe needs to be pretty good. Logic is only really abandoned at the point of true faith.
However I was not talking about faith in the Bible or in God. I am discussing the logic that YOU are using to bolster your argument that our disobeying VPW was the cause of TWI's downfall and that obeying VPW is the only road to Chicago. Nice diversion Mike but it won't work here. You attempt to use logic to make your case. Then when your logic is shown to be fallacious you suggest we throw throw logic out the door and wait for more data. Can you say hippocrite?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
Mike... if you don't want to start your own website, why not take some time off and write a book? yeah... that's it... take some time off and write a book...
I only have one more question right now: how do you really feel about Darien Hatcher signing with the Red Wings?
... Our Mike, who art in San Diego...
sheesh...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
I find it amazing that no one called mike (GC as I call him) on his forgeries remark.
If the translations are forgeries then how can ever know if pfal is god's word? Since piffle uses those "forgeries" and the weakest of the "forgeries" (KJV) then it seems mike mogfot liked it well enough?
It seems that I must count your further explanation to mj on the last page as a semi-apology. This fussy Victorian was hoping for a more sincere regret, but it looks like we have to take what we can get.
My concern was that you deliberately bait, tease and antagonize people at this site and then publically with great sarcasm chide mj on poor punctuation. This was after you went ballistic with another poster who was sarcastic to you. While it is true that I do not know the relationship between you and her, it is wrong to publically humiliate her because of a perceived shortcoming. If you feel you must say something at least do it privately without the sarcasm.
The truth is I do read her posts and I see a woman who has a great heart that cares deeply for other people. I give her posts greater spiritual importance compared to your thinly veiled infomercial.
I still don't know what OLG means. And still can't do a paragraph or even double space. MJ I read your threads and enjoy them, whether you puctuate or not. So until I learn how to do this I will continue doing what I know how and Mike can just skim my posts. I love all your gs'ers and hope you forgive my ignorance.
"OLG" is mike's abbreviation for Old Leadership Grad. It means anyone who was leadership from the 70's to when VPW died. Mike thinks that it was these people's fault that Way lost it's spiritual bearings.
OLG is Mike's coined acronym for Older Leader Grad.
EWB summarized it pretty well but here is a more detailed look at what Mike means by OLG.
An OLG according to Mikean theology is someone who was in some kind of leadership position in TWI between 1982 and the time of VPW's death in 1985.
From Mike:
quote: "Remember the start of this thread announced that my comments here were to ONLY include those older grads and especially leadership at the time of Dr's death."
and
"We older grads missed a crucial step in our spiritual development, PFAL mastery, and that?s why things collapsed. It?s not too late to come back to PFAL and get reading the books again to see what we missed the first round of mastery of 20 and 30 years ago."
and
"I have slowly learned that most of what I have to say primarily concerns those who were in ANY kind of leadership position in and around the time of Craig?s installation and Dr?s death, around 1982-85. I am defining ?leader? here as just about anyone with some intelligence who went farther than merely taking the class. In MY use of leader, IN THIS CONTEXT, I mean any twig leader on up (or is it down?) plus any Corps or WOWs. It could also mean any one that served, or was in a position to help and guide."
I hope that this explains (accurately) what Mike means by OLG.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
Sure teachers might have those flaws Mike, however, you would not have those flaws in a teacher who was a *man of the spirit*... says so in Gal: 5/16 *This I say then, lead a spiritual life, and you shall NEVER (not occasionally) commit the lust of the flesh*
The vises that vpw indulged in are ALL listed as atributes of a man of the flesh in galations....they are NOT viewed by God as minor flaws....
I do not believe that God would entrust his *new and improved* version of the bible to a man that habitually endulged in adultery, drunkeness, lying, enmity, strife, anger, stubborness....seditions .... all listed as manifestations of a man of the flesh...and as such, one who has no inheritance in the kingdom of God...not my words mike, the bible.
Rarely did we see fruit of a man of the spirit manifested by vp...gentelness...meekness...self control... that would lead us to believe that he was a man of the spirit.... one capable of recieving revelation from God.
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Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
rascal
used like a chatroom? But Mike ... that IS discussion....and what these forums are all about, I think it is you who have a misunderstanding about the purpose of these forums, and are missing the great benefit and learning that you could be employing.
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Mike
rascal,
You wrote: ?But Mike, the nasty stuff was STILL what was in the heart and mind of the author, the error, the damaging doctrines... the manifestations of his fleshly nature....?
You?re going to have that with ANY teacher. At least with Dr it was a little more obvious. With other teachers their flaws can be oh so subtle.
And you don?t know the relative proportions of what went on in Dr?s mind. I see lots of love and care for people. I refuse to erase that.
********
You wrote: ?Simple skillfull editing through the years does not make it *Godly* direction.?
That?s RIGHT! It was inspiration and revelation, not mere 5-senses editing.
*******
You wrote: ?Once having realised that vpw was a flawed man of the flesh, with flawed doctrine....you are finally free to embark upon that learning path where The perameters and boundaries whithin which God is able to work are increased... ...Life is much better outside of that box.?
I tried this, on and off, over the decades. I did this when many in the Corps were insulating themselves from all else ionside the TVT box. I did this bigtime, and in an increasing fashion from 1987 to 1998. I?m DONE with trying this method. I came back to PFAL after seeing that there is NOTHING out there worth dedicating my life to ... NOTHING!
I?m very happy with the spaciousness of the PFAL paradigm. From your point of view outside PFAL this is not apparent. It?s only by coming back to PFAL that the greatness of what God did for us in that class is visible.
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Tom Strange
Mike... you have a message here?
Sorry, I failed to see that...
... not very perceptive of me...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
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Mike
Tom S,
Instead of looking behind curtains, try READING!
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mj412
Mike likes to control . If he is denied he gets abusive. Just the way I read him. if he thinks you may have chance of hearing him he will stay relativly civil.
if your like me and a butch of other posters who have made it very clear we do not play his cat and mouse game, he is a nasty poster who will try to get you to stop posting anyway he can.
AAa mike AGain as much as you like to play the little games here I remind you we never had or will have a "relationship" other than this thread.
must have been your wife you no longer have and some kind of displacement issue ...
hey I get deep with ideas too!
you try to .... people off so they will not comment on you anymore then the illusion that its is your thread your control your words your world
seems so very very real .
it is a lie Mike.
scratch.
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Mike
Come on, mj, let's get back on topic.
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mj412
He will have His way regardless of you.
got knee pads? It is written .
your not very important really just as important as the rest of us ,maybe, so sorry your throne has deflated so far above us. Jesus christ throne still reigns !
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mj412
do not beg it is gross.
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Mike
Well, mj, at least you're helping me pump up my number of posts. Maybe I'll hit 2000 with banter like this.
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wyteduv58
Gee Mike, I guess no one reads my post either. Because I don't yet know how to puntuate and do paragraphs, and my spelling sometimes isn't too great either, but I do try. TO ALL MY FRIENDS IN G.S.CAFE....I'm so sorry that my spelling and puctuation is so atrocious (i'm sure i spelled atrocious wrong), Please forgive me. I will try to learn. .......by the way what does OLG stand for, i'm so stupid i don't even know that. Another thought came to me.....if pfal is God breathed, then God didn't give it to VPW, he gave it to B G Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles and all the others that VPW stole from. Victor just had the audacity to credit himself with "the God breathed word" that wasn't his to begin with. But I'm sure you will have an answer to this one too, as you seem to have all the answers. Post on Mike
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Goey
Mike,
Posted by Mike:
Why do I need to remember? This was my point - You should take your own advise here.Data - Data - Data. It is always more data - that never comes. What you call data - I call opinions and theories. Data is the facts and information that can used to form a theory or make a conclusion - not the theory or conclusion itself.
Not much time at all Mike, it took me only about 15 minutes to read your post and reply. You say it is not all presented. So What? What you have presented so far is more than enough in itself to make some pretty fair assessments. I HAVE played with it and found it wanting. But for you to be speaking of "comprehensive" databases is rather absurd when you reject and refuse to even look at real data that is not hidden between the lines in the contra-context of one of VPW's books. The only data you are interested in it that which supports your cause. Who is really myopic?
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karmicdebt
Mike, don't forget the threat you gave us. Explain please!!!
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Tom Strange
Mike... if you don't want to start your own website, why not take some time off and write a book? yeah... that's it... take some time off and write a book...
I only have one more question right now: how do you really feel about Darien Hatcher signing with the Red Wings?
... Our Mike, who art in San Diego...
sheesh...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
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def59
I find it amazing that no one called mike (GC as I call him) on his forgeries remark.
If the translations are forgeries then how can ever know if pfal is god's word? Since piffle uses those "forgeries" and the weakest of the "forgeries" (KJV) then it seems mike mogfot liked it well enough?
c
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E. W. Bullinger
Dear Mike:
It seems that I must count your further explanation to mj on the last page as a semi-apology. This fussy Victorian was hoping for a more sincere regret, but it looks like we have to take what we can get.
My concern was that you deliberately bait, tease and antagonize people at this site and then publically with great sarcasm chide mj on poor punctuation. This was after you went ballistic with another poster who was sarcastic to you. While it is true that I do not know the relationship between you and her, it is wrong to publically humiliate her because of a perceived shortcoming. If you feel you must say something at least do it privately without the sarcasm.
The truth is I do read her posts and I see a woman who has a great heart that cares deeply for other people. I give her posts greater spiritual importance compared to your thinly veiled infomercial.
EWB "Apology Monitor OLG"
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wyteduv58
I still don't know what OLG means. And still can't do a paragraph or even double space. MJ I read your threads and enjoy them, whether you puctuate or not. So until I learn how to do this I will continue doing what I know how and Mike can just skim my posts. I love all your gs'ers and hope you forgive my ignorance.
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E. W. Bullinger
Dear Dovey:
"OLG" is mike's abbreviation for Old Leadership Grad. It means anyone who was leadership from the 70's to when VPW died. Mike thinks that it was these people's fault that Way lost it's spiritual bearings.
EWB
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Goey
Wyteduv,
OLG is Mike's coined acronym for Older Leader Grad.
EWB summarized it pretty well but here is a more detailed look at what Mike means by OLG.
An OLG according to Mikean theology is someone who was in some kind of leadership position in TWI between 1982 and the time of VPW's death in 1985.
From Mike:
I hope that this explains (accurately) what Mike means by OLG.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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def59
Am I an OLG?
Foundational and intermediate PFAL ? 1978 $100
Renewed Mind 1978 $50?
WOW 1978 $400
CF+S
Rise and Expansion
Dealing with the Adversary 1980-1986 $300
WOW 1980 $600
WOW 1982 $400
Advanced Class-Emporia w/John Lynn 1986 $450
Way Experience Worthless
W
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rascal
Sure teachers might have those flaws Mike, however, you would not have those flaws in a teacher who was a *man of the spirit*... says so in Gal: 5/16 *This I say then, lead a spiritual life, and you shall NEVER (not occasionally) commit the lust of the flesh*
The vises that vpw indulged in are ALL listed as atributes of a man of the flesh in galations....they are NOT viewed by God as minor flaws....
I do not believe that God would entrust his *new and improved* version of the bible to a man that habitually endulged in adultery, drunkeness, lying, enmity, strife, anger, stubborness....seditions .... all listed as manifestations of a man of the flesh...and as such, one who has no inheritance in the kingdom of God...not my words mike, the bible.
Rarely did we see fruit of a man of the spirit manifested by vp...gentelness...meekness...self control... that would lead us to believe that he was a man of the spirit.... one capable of recieving revelation from God.
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wyteduv58
Gee, Mike I'm an OLG. WOW I didn't mean to blow up twi, really I didn't. I paid someone else to do it!!!!!HEE HEE
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excathedra
[This message was edited by excathedra on July 03, 2003 at 22:22.]
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karmicdebt
Ex, I really wish I knew you! Wanna come to the Arizona get together...
You are remarkable really...
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ex10
Ohmigosh, ex!
You are truly perspicacious.
;)-->
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