I think the title explains itself. "Private" messages. To me, that indicates an understanding that the message is intended to be private. I find the notion that we would need to have a "rule" about this sort of . . . well I can't even come up with a word for it.
Now, that being said, I can also understand, even if I don't agree, how someone might be inclined to make a private message public if they feel that the message was threatening or overly aggressive.
I'd think you can repost a PM, but if they ask you not to, it is not courteous. However if you feel there was intimidation or an attack, it may be useful to warn others, or at least make them aware. I'm not sure where slander comes in. If you have a pm, then repost it, and it contains "bad stuff" about the other person, do you have to be able to prove that it was an actual pm?
Here I guess it is traceable ... I used to think emails were like a legal document, like a fax. I'm not quite sure on that now either. It may be only certain, authenticated emails are legal.
It would be nice to know eactly ... good question.
I should add, after living near a small town, I now assume anything I tell Betsy the cow will soon be known by everyone that cares to know such dairy chatter.
Private Messages are no different than email (except they stay here instead of being delivered to one's email server).
Just like email, anyone can hit the forward button, can copy and paste to somewhere else, etc. So just like you would not send personal information in an email to someone you didn't trust, you shouldn't do the same with PMs.
As for posting a PM publicly, it is subjective and usually will fall under the rules of posting personal information about someone else without their permission. Normally it would not be allowed.
There could be exceptions though. For instance, someone using the PM system to hide behind while attacking several people for what they post.
I think if a poster had serious problems with another poster's PM they should contact the mods first. That way the whole thing could be handled privately if at all possible. But private means private. I've had 2 different posters reveal stuff to me in PMs that I KNOW they don't want revealed in the forums and no matter what level of disagreement I ever have with either of them I will NOT violate that trust. I know of another situation where 2 posters who vehemently disagreed with each other exchanged emails, and one of them threatened to reveal some of the contents of the other's emails on the forums here if the 2nd poster didn't stop expressing certain opinions. That's not good and it IS a matter of trust.
As far as emails and PMs being "legal documents", anything posted or emailed can be subpoenaed and used in court if it relates to, say, a murder case. The way that works is, if the local police can do no more with their own investigations, they have the option of requesting help from the FBI. A few years ago here in STL a serial killer was caught by that method. He emailed somebody connected to the case and by federal authority the emails were traced to the killer's computer and case eventually closed.
I think Greasy Tech is correct about the posting of e-mail or other private messages being off-limits.
I have received very few private messages on this board, and none of the messages I have received have been nasty or juicy. The notice I recently added, and that is appearing at the bottom of my posts is preemptive and precautionary, and I'm not kidding around with it.
I think that PM's should stay that way. I would only get involved if they get nasty or threatening.
I have the PM's for people to contact other posters without giving an email address, it gives an extra layer of anonymity. I have turned off the PM function if I feel it is being abused
I don't have any hard and fast rule. As an example, yesterday (which is what I am sure instigated this thread) i got a number of reports of abuse and threats in the PM's. I sent an email to the party originating the PM's and let her know that she no longer could use our PM system.
I suggest that if you have an extensive private exchange going and you trust the other individual, then take it up a level to emails back and forth
The PM system is not a substitute for email. It is a convenient communication tool within this forum.
If you need to have rules for PM, I would apply the rules of the forum.
Hey Rhino, do we live in the same town? ha Dairy chatter..lol, here will I live I would name it turf chatter, everyone gathers in the produce section, ye old farmer's and towns people. It drives my daughter nuts!! she said, the old folks can talk about bananna's for hours...ha..apple doesnt fall far from the tree..heehee
Heh ... well, I confide in the goats a little more than the cows, as I find they are somewhat more discreet.
I wouldn't want my pm's posted either, of course that is why we use pm's or email. Here it seems going through the mod's is a good alternative if there is a problem.
I agree that the mods should be the first line of defense... but I'm of the mind that if someone resorts to threats, insults and name-calling, the gloves are off. that kind of thing is not what PM's are for, that's not privileged communication, that's sneaky and cowardly.
if you want to insult me and call me names, do it in public. I have no patience for bullies who do their dirty work behind closed doors where no one can see. CK is insane, but at least he is indiscriminate in his abuse and does it in public where we can ALL laugh at him.
One other thought - if a person writes you (regardless of the content) and you don't want to get anymore, just write the person back and tell them please don't write again, you don't want to exchange PM's, case closed, thank you. You can keep it in case it happens again, and that's that hopefully. No need to go to PawT, or Mod's or whatever. Just handle it.
Or you could suggest you're interested in communicating, but let them know it's only going to happen if (whatever your concern is) can be understood, etc.
Write the person and ask them to stop or suggest a way to work it out, if you're interested in communicating.
(to add - I've only gotten nice PM's myself, whether it's a disagree or agree, 99.9999 per cent have all been welcome, although not all contain a donation, which bugs me but is a whole nother matter)
Speaking only for myself, if a person PM'd me and wrote "STUPID @#$%!!! idiot! I hope you fry like bacon!!! You're the worst @#$%%%^&! I've ever seen, DIE!!! DIE!!!!" I would...
Take the first part of the PM as simply being from an unenlightened person who can't see me for the wonderful person I really am. If that's all there was, I might write them back and say and ask what's the problem, mon?
Or thanks but no thanks, please don't write again. IF YOU DO, I'll forward to the Board Mod's for further processing. AGAIN _ PLEASE DON'T WRITE ME AGAIN LIKE THIS, I don't like it.
It only goes to the Mod's because I've given it a try and it didn't work out or asked someone to stop something directed at me I don't like, and they refused
If the last part "DIE DIE" was there, I'd report it to the Mod's immediately, since that's pretty strong language. I'd write the person back, let them know what I'm doing and to please STOP SENDING anymore PM's like that, as I'm taking them as threatening.
It goes to the Mod's because of my feeling threatened, DIE DIE might be venting, but it's a little over the top.
(to me).
I for one don't like the idea that a PM message gets posted without the permission of the other person, in general. It's just common courtesy, "hey, do you mind if I..." etc. We all probably do that now I'm sure, when things are friendly, agree or disagree. It's done because it furthers the discussion in some way.
At the same time, the fact is that once sent, any communication is up for grabs and out of your control. Plus, it's completely possible for someone to edit it, and copy/paste it and distribute it without your knowledge outside of this board and say you wrote it.
My advice - if anyone has any twinge of a concern that what they're writing or getting might be mishandled later, even by accident, be careful what you send and keep a copy of the original.
Yesterday's stuff just tipped the iceberg for me...so to speak.
There's always been a low-level jumpiness about the PM's...and there's always been an instance or two to keep the jumpiness jumpy...
Of late I've been threatened a few times with bringing personal stuff out to the open forums. As I have perpetrated that in the (distant) past, I know I've got it coming. Quite frankly, though, anything personal I've shared with any GSer, I've ended up sharing out in the open forums in the end, anyway.
But back to the topic at hand...
It is admirable how GSers circle the wagons when one is threatened.
But circling the wagons is not the same as cliquish sniping and biting. Ya know?
And circling the wagons is not the same as revealing personal information. Ya know?
Isn't there a type of wasp that, when threatened, puts out some sort of SOS and calls other wasps to its defense?
That's kinda what happens around here sometimes. And sometimes, around here, that defense is reserved for a favored crowd...
It's an 'Us v Them' kinda thing.
And that's all well and good and all...
But what happens when 'Them' is 'Us' being bored or cat-fighting or mis-reading or something else?
Where is the line drawn? Should a line be drawn?
I dunno. I've pretty much quit doing the whole PM thing. Oh, I'll have a conversation throughout a day or something, but as for anything like what I used to have going with the PMs...well, never again.
It's just not worth the wondering when I'll fall out of grace with somebody...and that wasp's nest will get stirred up. Ya know?
It's just sad that this lingering mentality shows up as often as it does.
I think that PM's should stay that way. I would only get involved if they get nasty or threatening.
I have the PM's for people to contact other posters without giving an email address, it gives an extra layer of anonymity. I have turned off the PM function if I feel it is being abused
I don't have any hard and fast rule. As an example, yesterday (which is what I am sure instigated this thread) i got a number of reports of abuse and threats in the PM's. I sent an email to the party originating the PM's and let her know that she no longer could use our PM system.
I suggest that if you have an extensive private exchange going and you trust the other individual, then take it up a level to emails back and forth
The PM system is not a substitute for email. It is a convenient communication tool within this forum.
If you need to have rules for PM, I would apply the rules of the forum.
This is pretty much how pm's are handled on boards all over cyberspace.
Almost all the pm's I ever received ANYWHERE have been nice notes, or at least neutral.
Very rarely-and to my recollection, not yet at the GSC- do I get an impolite one.
I reserve the right to alert a moderator and block someone from sending me pm's
at any moment, if I feel such a response is warranted.
I'd say less than 1/10 of 1% of all the pm's I ever received were ever considered
for such responses.
And my usual alerts to moderators, regardless of boards, tend to say something like
"please remind them how we handle disagreements on this board."
And usually if I complain about pm's, I get a note back from a moderator saying that
the SAME PERSON has been sending pm's that generated complaints to OTHER POSTERS.
Few people just single me out to make rude or offensive pm's.
Yah, Mr. Hammeroni. Ethics. By the by, you're a good read!
I may not be getting my money's worth on GS. I've never written to PawT about anything posted. I pretty much post whatever it is I would send to him. I may have a higher tolerance for abuse. Reading my own posts, I'd have to say I do, yah.
This is very thought provoking, Cool Waters. But White Dove and ex10 and Jonny are making me think...
I was abused in a PM once that pesky pig Psalmie super glued glued my feet to the floor and ruined my feathers with her peanut butter shampoo!
I seem to be missing out on my fair share of harrassment. Any peanut butter shampoo left over? I know this is kind of off-topic (or...is it?) but - I tried to re-read one of my recent posts and actually got so bored I started surfing other threads and came back when I thought it was over. And it still wasn't. I ended up doing several New Year's Resolutions lists before it was all done.
Maybe we need a Cream Pie smilie guy. Or a Squirt Gun smilie.
There are no privacy rules regarding pm's as far as our government is concerned so if you want 15 seconds of fame now's your time. Frankly any messages I have made that may imply any sort of threatening message should be taken with a grain of salt unless you hear otherwise in which case it would be in your best interest to duck.
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Abigail
I think the title explains itself. "Private" messages. To me, that indicates an understanding that the message is intended to be private. I find the notion that we would need to have a "rule" about this sort of . . . well I can't even come up with a word for it.
Now, that being said, I can also understand, even if I don't agree, how someone might be inclined to make a private message public if they feel that the message was threatening or overly aggressive.
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rhino
I'd think you can repost a PM, but if they ask you not to, it is not courteous. However if you feel there was intimidation or an attack, it may be useful to warn others, or at least make them aware. I'm not sure where slander comes in. If you have a pm, then repost it, and it contains "bad stuff" about the other person, do you have to be able to prove that it was an actual pm?
Here I guess it is traceable ... I used to think emails were like a legal document, like a fax. I'm not quite sure on that now either. It may be only certain, authenticated emails are legal.
It would be nice to know eactly ... good question.
I should add, after living near a small town, I now assume anything I tell Betsy the cow will soon be known by everyone that cares to know such dairy chatter.
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GT
Private Messages are no different than email (except they stay here instead of being delivered to one's email server).
Just like email, anyone can hit the forward button, can copy and paste to somewhere else, etc. So just like you would not send personal information in an email to someone you didn't trust, you shouldn't do the same with PMs.
As for posting a PM publicly, it is subjective and usually will fall under the rules of posting personal information about someone else without their permission. Normally it would not be allowed.
There could be exceptions though. For instance, someone using the PM system to hide behind while attacking several people for what they post.
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johniam
I think if a poster had serious problems with another poster's PM they should contact the mods first. That way the whole thing could be handled privately if at all possible. But private means private. I've had 2 different posters reveal stuff to me in PMs that I KNOW they don't want revealed in the forums and no matter what level of disagreement I ever have with either of them I will NOT violate that trust. I know of another situation where 2 posters who vehemently disagreed with each other exchanged emails, and one of them threatened to reveal some of the contents of the other's emails on the forums here if the 2nd poster didn't stop expressing certain opinions. That's not good and it IS a matter of trust.
As far as emails and PMs being "legal documents", anything posted or emailed can be subpoenaed and used in court if it relates to, say, a murder case. The way that works is, if the local police can do no more with their own investigations, they have the option of requesting help from the FBI. A few years ago here in STL a serial killer was caught by that method. He emailed somebody connected to the case and by federal authority the emails were traced to the killer's computer and case eventually closed.
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Cynic
I think Greasy Tech is correct about the posting of e-mail or other private messages being off-limits.
I have received very few private messages on this board, and none of the messages I have received have been nasty or juicy. The notice I recently added, and that is appearing at the bottom of my posts is preemptive and precautionary, and I'm not kidding around with it.
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pawtucket
I think that PM's should stay that way. I would only get involved if they get nasty or threatening.
I have the PM's for people to contact other posters without giving an email address, it gives an extra layer of anonymity. I have turned off the PM function if I feel it is being abused
I don't have any hard and fast rule. As an example, yesterday (which is what I am sure instigated this thread) i got a number of reports of abuse and threats in the PM's. I sent an email to the party originating the PM's and let her know that she no longer could use our PM system.
I suggest that if you have an extensive private exchange going and you trust the other individual, then take it up a level to emails back and forth
The PM system is not a substitute for email. It is a convenient communication tool within this forum.
If you need to have rules for PM, I would apply the rules of the forum.
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likeaneagle
Hey Rhino, do we live in the same town? ha Dairy chatter..lol, here will I live I would name it turf chatter, everyone gathers in the produce section, ye old farmer's and towns people. It drives my daughter nuts!! she said, the old folks can talk about bananna's for hours...ha..apple doesnt fall far from the tree..heehee
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rhino
Heh ... well, I confide in the goats a little more than the cows, as I find they are somewhat more discreet.
I wouldn't want my pm's posted either, of course that is why we use pm's or email. Here it seems going through the mod's is a good alternative if there is a problem.
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potato
I agree that the mods should be the first line of defense... but I'm of the mind that if someone resorts to threats, insults and name-calling, the gloves are off. that kind of thing is not what PM's are for, that's not privileged communication, that's sneaky and cowardly.
if you want to insult me and call me names, do it in public. I have no patience for bullies who do their dirty work behind closed doors where no one can see. CK is insane, but at least he is indiscriminate in his abuse and does it in public where we can ALL laugh at him.
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likeaneagle
well, I havent experienced PM abuse..thank you all!!
RHino, Im sure the goats,cows and grapes dont mind a bit!!
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socks
One other thought - if a person writes you (regardless of the content) and you don't want to get anymore, just write the person back and tell them please don't write again, you don't want to exchange PM's, case closed, thank you. You can keep it in case it happens again, and that's that hopefully. No need to go to PawT, or Mod's or whatever. Just handle it.
Or you could suggest you're interested in communicating, but let them know it's only going to happen if (whatever your concern is) can be understood, etc.
Write the person and ask them to stop or suggest a way to work it out, if you're interested in communicating.
(to add - I've only gotten nice PM's myself, whether it's a disagree or agree, 99.9999 per cent have all been welcome, although not all contain a donation, which bugs me but is a whole nother matter)
Speaking only for myself, if a person PM'd me and wrote "STUPID @#$%!!! idiot! I hope you fry like bacon!!! You're the worst @#$%%%^&! I've ever seen, DIE!!! DIE!!!!" I would...
Take the first part of the PM as simply being from an unenlightened person who can't see me for the wonderful person I really am.
If that's all there was, I might write them back and say and ask what's the problem, mon?
Or thanks but no thanks, please don't write again. IF YOU DO, I'll forward to the Board Mod's for further processing. AGAIN _ PLEASE DON'T WRITE ME AGAIN LIKE THIS, I don't like it.
It only goes to the Mod's because I've given it a try and it didn't work out or asked someone to stop something directed at me I don't like, and they refused
If the last part "DIE DIE" was there, I'd report it to the Mod's immediately, since that's pretty strong language. I'd write the person back, let them know what I'm doing and to please STOP SENDING anymore PM's like that, as I'm taking them as threatening.
It goes to the Mod's because of my feeling threatened, DIE DIE might be venting, but it's a little over the top.
(to me).
I for one don't like the idea that a PM message gets posted without the permission of the other person, in general. It's just common courtesy, "hey, do you mind if I..." etc. We all probably do that now I'm sure, when things are friendly, agree or disagree. It's done because it furthers the discussion in some way.
At the same time, the fact is that once sent, any communication is up for grabs and out of your control. Plus, it's completely possible for someone to edit it, and copy/paste it and distribute it without your knowledge outside of this board and say you wrote it.
My advice - if anyone has any twinge of a concern that what they're writing or getting might be mishandled later, even by accident, be careful what you send and keep a copy of the original.
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CoolWaters
Thanks Paw and GT and all the rest.
Yesterday's stuff just tipped the iceberg for me...so to speak.
There's always been a low-level jumpiness about the PM's...and there's always been an instance or two to keep the jumpiness jumpy...
Of late I've been threatened a few times with bringing personal stuff out to the open forums. As I have perpetrated that in the (distant) past, I know I've got it coming. Quite frankly, though, anything personal I've shared with any GSer, I've ended up sharing out in the open forums in the end, anyway.
But back to the topic at hand...
It is admirable how GSers circle the wagons when one is threatened.
But circling the wagons is not the same as cliquish sniping and biting. Ya know?
And circling the wagons is not the same as revealing personal information. Ya know?
Isn't there a type of wasp that, when threatened, puts out some sort of SOS and calls other wasps to its defense?
That's kinda what happens around here sometimes. And sometimes, around here, that defense is reserved for a favored crowd...
It's an 'Us v Them' kinda thing.
And that's all well and good and all...
But what happens when 'Them' is 'Us' being bored or cat-fighting or mis-reading or something else?
Where is the line drawn? Should a line be drawn?
I dunno. I've pretty much quit doing the whole PM thing. Oh, I'll have a conversation throughout a day or something, but as for anything like what I used to have going with the PMs...well, never again.
It's just not worth the wondering when I'll fall out of grace with somebody...and that wasp's nest will get stirred up. Ya know?
It's just sad that this lingering mentality shows up as often as it does.
IMO.
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J0nny Ling0
I was sexually harrassed in a PM once. And, it was just awful! It went on and on and on for weeks!
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ex10
Jonny there you go tellin on me again. Shhhhh....... :D
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WordWolf
This is pretty much how pm's are handled on boards all over cyberspace.
Almost all the pm's I ever received ANYWHERE have been nice notes, or at least neutral.
Very rarely-and to my recollection, not yet at the GSC- do I get an impolite one.
I reserve the right to alert a moderator and block someone from sending me pm's
at any moment, if I feel such a response is warranted.
I'd say less than 1/10 of 1% of all the pm's I ever received were ever considered
for such responses.
And my usual alerts to moderators, regardless of boards, tend to say something like
"please remind them how we handle disagreements on this board."
And usually if I complain about pm's, I get a note back from a moderator saying that
the SAME PERSON has been sending pm's that generated complaints to OTHER POSTERS.
Few people just single me out to make rude or offensive pm's.
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WhiteDove
I was abused in a PM once that pesky pig Psalmie super glued glued my feet to the floor and ruined my feathers with her peanut butter shampoo!
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Ham
Just for me- I would never reveal a PM. I wouldn't even reveal if I got one/didn't get one.
Or from or to whom.
Tell me you're planning to do some real harm or something, and the agreement is off.
If its harrasive or something, it would seem far easier to hit the little delete button.
I've had secrets disclosed to others that I've told in private messages..
not that I care, or that there was any REAL harm done, but I would question their ethics.
But that's just me.
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Ham
I dunno.. I think we need a FEW ethics..
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socks
Yah, Mr. Hammeroni. Ethics. By the by, you're a good read!
I may not be getting my money's worth on GS. I've never written to PawT about anything posted. I pretty much post whatever it is I would send to him. I may have a higher tolerance for abuse. Reading my own posts, I'd have to say I do, yah.
This is very thought provoking, Cool Waters. But White Dove and ex10 and Jonny are making me think...
I seem to be missing out on my fair share of harrassment. Any peanut butter shampoo left over? I know this is kind of off-topic (or...is it?) but - I tried to re-read one of my recent posts and actually got so bored I started surfing other threads and came back when I thought it was over. And it still wasn't. I ended up doing several New Year's Resolutions lists before it was all done.
Maybe we need a Cream Pie smilie guy. Or a Squirt Gun smilie.
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excathedra
a "group" private message (like a conference call) got weird for me so i bowed out.....
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socks
Was that a "menage a quad" exthra?
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ChasUFarley
Here's some emoticons for ya...
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excathedra
socks !!!! check your private messages i'm going to abuse you
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herbiejuan
There are no privacy rules regarding pm's as far as our government is concerned so if you want 15 seconds of fame now's your time. Frankly any messages I have made that may imply any sort of threatening message should be taken with a grain of salt unless you hear otherwise in which case it would be in your best interest to duck.
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