I like Shifra's test, but I think I would see it more as a test of how much you no longer believe twi's doctrines.... While this may be important, I see "brainwashing" in a category separate from doctrine... So here is my new and improved and not so silly quiz:
1. Do you feel you have to check with another person (besides your spouse) before making any major decisions in life?
2. Are you constantly living in a state of fear because you believe God does not love you?
3. Do you allow others to bully you, and believe they are right for doing so?
4. Do you believe you and a few select others are better than everyone else because you belong to a certain group?
5. Do you think that by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations you will cause yourself to grow?
6. Will you go against your instincts in a situation and do something potentially harmful to yourself or another because someone in charge tells you to?
7. Are you willing to separate yourself from your family for the good of your organization?
8. Do you have self worth based on yourself and not on being a part of a group of people?
9. When the phone rings and you see it is your minister on the caller id, does your heart rate go up?
10. Does every conversation you have with another person center on your religion?
11. Are you unwilling to look at any other point of view other than that of the organization?
12. Will you throw out items in your home that you enjoy because a leader told you they were spiritually contaminated?
13. Do you believe there is only one religious organization that is correct and all others are idolatrous?
14. Will you change your manner of dress and appearance to please your leadership, even though it goes against what you like?
15. Will you allow another person other than your spouse to tell you how to raise your children?
Once you answer these questions, tell me if you think you ARE right NOW brainwashed, and then tell me if you WERE brainwashed previously.
I think the doctrine was easy for me to dump because to me it did not seem to work at all--the longer I stayed in TWI, the worse our lives became, the more our life style was dictated as 'The Word' and yet the uglier it got and the better' unbelievers' lives looked.
Other habits though, are pretty ingrained. We are never late! Our kids are the one who are never in trouble and help out the teachers etc(ya--even at their strict academic school, they are the teacher's pet.s Thank goodness black hair dye and skull earrings are easy to find, or else they would be nerds.)
And if a higher up at work says we should do somehting this way not that way, I don't brush it off as easy as my co workers, who are freer to say so and so is an idiot, that is not how it is done etc.
Prior to this job I taught preschool, where I was the boss for the most part, directed teacher aids etc. Once summer is over and I'm not locked into my kids band schedule, I plan to apply for supervisory jobs--give me that control!! I suspect that is a Way hold over.
Hubby and I don't like to join groups, even though we do see the need to be on the school site council etc. We find we are very critical about how things are done...TWI hold over. We want every thing planned out well ahead of time, and the plan adheared too, while many feel it is fine to 'wing' it...Really, we were involved in Master Gardeners and just couldn't handle it!
This is a big difference for hubby because he's the outgoing type, and once was the pres of this club, and that club...
1. When the Bible is being discussed among your (non-TWI) friends, do you continue to believe that you know more than anyone else about the subject?
2. Do you still think that people who believe in the Trinity are "idolatrous" and therefore have forfeited their chances for eternal life? How about their "crowns in heaven"?
3. Do you hang on to the idea that all negative things come from the devil?
4. Do you avoid wearing a cross around your neck or having one as a wall decoration in your home?
5. Is your first reaction to a difficult situation to speak in tongues - silently, in your mind - rather than to immediately pursue a solution to the problem?
6. Do you think environmentalists are nature-worshippers?
7. Do you use a wooden spoon as a "rod of correction" on your child?
8. When you experience failure, do you begin to re-trace your recent past in order to identify where you "blew it" spiritually?
9. When considering whether an idea or event is valid, is the Bible your ultimate reference point for truth?
10. If you encounter a mentally ill person, does you "diagnosis" of that person include the name of a devil spirit?
11. When you pray, does each sentence of the prayer begin with ... "Thank you father"?
12. Do you believe that when a Christian husband and wife disagree, the wife should submit?
13. When someone is very very very successful at what they do, do you consider that this might be because of an affiliation with the Adversary?
14. Do you find yourself rejecting any perspectives from other religions?
15. Do you believe that babies are not alive until they take their first breath?
16. Does it still matter to you how many were crucified with Christ?
17. Is your life patterned more after the Epistles than the Gospels?
Add up your "yes"s and "no"s. If you have more "yes" answers than "no" answers, you are still brainwashed, and TWI still has a grip on you.
1. No 2. No 3.maybe 4. yes 5. no 6. no 7. never 8. no 9. not necessarily 10. not necessarily
11. no 12. not necessarily, maybe the husband should submit if wrong 13. no 14. no.15. yes, but they have potential for life. 16. no, rather the importance of Christ's crucifixation 17. both have equal importance.
Hubby and I don't like to join groups, even though we do see the need to be on the school site council etc. We find we are very critical about how things are done...TWI hold over. We want every thing planned out well ahead of time, and the plan adheared too, while many feel it is fine to 'wing' it...Really, we were involved in Master Gardeners and just couldn't handle it!
I feel you there, Bramble.... I have the same problems with any kind of event. It drives me absolutely nuts to not have things planned out in advance (for events only, in my personal life, it's another game entirely), and to not have everything you might need for a project will send me over the edge. Deep down, I think not planning something through is inconsiderate for the people you have involved.
I'm not sure if that's Waybrain, or just my personality...
For me, the doctrine doesn't matter that much. People will believe what they will beleive, and it's not up to me to dictate what that is. I think someone could actually hold on to a lot of the twi doctrine and be a lovely person, it all depends on the larger problem - how twi treated people in practice... As we all know what they preach is not the same as what they practice. The actions involved are more hurtful than the doctrines, IMHO.
I feel you there, Bramble.... I have the same problems with any kind of event. It drives me absolutely nuts to not have things planned out in advance (for events only, in my personal life, it's another game entirely), and to not have everything you might need for a project will send me over the edge. Deep down, I think not planning something through is inconsiderate for the people you have involved.
I'm not sure if that's Waybrain, or just my personality...
For me, the doctrine doesn't matter that much. People will believe what they will beleive, and it's not up to me to dictate what that is. I think someone could actually hold on to a lot of the twi doctrine and be a lovely person, it all depends on the larger problem - how twi treated people in practice... As we all know what they preach is not the same as what they practice. The actions involved are more hurtful than the doctrines, IMHO.
I think there are lovely people with TWI beliefs, but I think there are also those who see the world very much in an us vs them adversarial view. Not just TWI but other high demand groups. And I think that destroys people and families and communities. It is one thing to keep to yourself in your little group, it is another thing to demonize those not part of your group--because if you think of others that way, how are you going to treat them? Somehow you're going to have to get around to thinking, well, this is how they deserve to be treated, they brought it on themselves( justification for many evils in TWI). So somehow it becomes godly to become hard and cruel...saw alot of that in the nineties, from people who weren't always that way.
My result: "You have overcome most brainwashing! " But as I never felt brainwashed, this result does not surprise me. Glad I have my own mind - just wish it were as sharp as it used to be!
Took Shifra's test, and only had 4 yeses. Took JavaJane's and had all no's for now, and one yes for twi days.
Ok I originally got that I've been extremely brainwashed and can't I think for myself? But when I changed ONE answer, count them ONE... I got that I have only been minorly brainwashed. The question I chaned was the TV one. Do you watch TV? I originally had, "Heck ya I do!" then I changed it to "yes." Go figure!
I like Shifra's test, but I think I would see it more as a test of how much you no longer believe twi's doctrines.... While this may be important, I see "brainwashing" in a category separate from doctrine... So here is my new and improved and not so silly quiz:
Java Jane's New Quiz
1. Do you feel you have to check with another person (besides your spouse) before making any major decisions in life?No..although I sometimes would like other opinions feedback and ideas
2. Are you constantly living in a state of fear because you believe God does not love you?No, I always have known that He loves me; God is great at demonstrating Love...He doesn't always like what I do or choose...His forgiveness is a real concern to me.
3. Do you allow others to bully you, and believe they are right for doing so?Never ever did ...I am quite a rebell...I would have most assuredly been thrown out of the Corp almost immediately if I had taken that direction
4. Do you believe you and a few select others are better than everyone else because you belong to a certain group?No, absolutely not...I have never been impressed or awed by titles or status or the like! I am impressed by acts of Love, Courage, Faith and kindnesses...genuineness and heart and soul convictions
5. Do you think that by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations you will cause yourself to grow? It is possible to grow in these types of situations as in any situation but they are not a requirement for growth. Knowledge wisdom and understanding tempered with Love and put into practice have always helped me to grow.
6. Will you go against your instincts in a situation and do something potentially harmful to yourself or another because someone in charge tells you to? Never!
7. Are you willing to separate yourself from your family for the good of your organization?My Family and I are already separated in most areas and categories; but to answer the question I stand up for what I believe is right in any cause or organization. Although, most all the causes, organizations and systems of the world are in some manner or another corrupted or flawed...so it is certainly a situational endeavor at best.
8. Do you have self worth based on yourself and not on being a part of a group of people?Absolutely!
9. When the phone rings and you see it is your minister on the caller id, does your heart rate go up?No, and it wouldn't even if I had a minister to call me.
10. Does every conversation you have with another person center on your religion? No but I believe that all the roots of any conversations are mingled with personal standards, beliefs, knowledge experience and wisdom.
11. Are you unwilling to look at any other point of view other than that of the organization? No, although I neither accept or reject all ideas initially; I weigh them out and think them through based on my accepted standards.
12. Will you throw out items in your home that you enjoy because a leader told you they were spiritually contaminated? No I never did; at times I gave the benefit of the doubt to the leader but put them away temporarily for the occasion only.
13. Do you believe there is only one religious organization that is correct and all others are idolatrous?I Believe in one GOD and I believe He is neither schizophrenic or divided in His ways or intents.
14. Will you change your manner of dress and appearance to please your leadership, even though it goes against what you like?I have always dressed with respect to the occasion and have yet been able to express uniquely my own style.
15. Will you allow another person other than your spouse to tell you how to raise your children?No, I consider advice as advice
Once you answer these questions, tell me if you think you ARE right NOW brainwashed, and then tell me if you WERE Now : Nobrainwashed previously.Previously: No
quote: Ok I originally got that I've been extremely brainwashed and can't I think for myself? But when I changed ONE answer, count them ONE... I got that I have only been minorly brainwashed. The question I chaned was the TV one. Do you watch TV? I originally had, "Heck ya I do!" then I changed it to "yes." Go figure!
Back in TWI I would always refute the anti cult spiel by saying that the biggest cults in the world were ABC, NBC, AND CBS; they had more people and did a better job of brainwashing. Thank God for cable.
1. When the Bible is being discussed among your (non-TWI) friends, do you continue to believe that you know more than anyone else about the subject? NO
2. Do you still think that people who believe in the Trinity are "idolatrous" and therefore have forfeited their chances for eternal life? How about their "crowns in heaven"?
NO, but I still believe that JC is not GOD! What's wrong with that?
3. Do you hang on to the idea that all negative things come from the devil?
I believe in free will and in poor judgement, BAD DECISIONS, but yes, I do believe many bad things come from the devil!
4. Do you avoid wearing a cross around your neck or having one as a wall decoration in your home? NO
5. Is your first reaction to a difficult situation to speak in tongues - silently, in your mind - rather than to immediately pursue a solution to the problem? no
6. Do you think environmentalists are nature-worshippers? no
7. Do you use a wooden spoon as a "rod of correction" on your child? no
8. When you experience failure, do you begin to re-trace your recent past in order to identify where you "blew it" spiritually? no, but I have found that things go much better when I look to GOD!
9. When considering whether an idea or event is valid, is the Bible your ultimate reference point for truth? NO
10. If you encounter a mentally ill person, does you "diagnosis" of that person include the name of a devil spirit? I don't include the name of a devil spirit, but I do believe we are all still under attack by the devil............whats that verse, the lion seeketh who he may devour?
11. When you pray, does each sentence of the prayer begin with ... "Thank you father"?
yes and no
12. Do you believe that when a Christian husband and wife disagree, the wife should submit? H___ no
13. When someone is very very very successful at what they do, do you consider that this might be because of an affiliation with the Adversary? It depends on that person and their behavior..........
14. Do you find yourself rejecting any perspectives from other religions? NO
15. Do you believe that babies are not alive until they take their first breath? This is a difficult one.......still thinking...........
16. Does it still matter to you how many were crucified with Christ? Probably not.
17. Is your life patterned more after the Epistles than the Gospels? Could get into some bible here, I will leave that for a new post............
Add up your "yes"s and "no"s. If you have more "yes" answers than "no" answers, you are still brainwashed, and TWI still has a grip on you.
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CKnapp3
Well, I found I have overcome most brainwashing.
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JavaJane
I like Shifra's test, but I think I would see it more as a test of how much you no longer believe twi's doctrines.... While this may be important, I see "brainwashing" in a category separate from doctrine... So here is my new and improved and not so silly quiz:
1. Do you feel you have to check with another person (besides your spouse) before making any major decisions in life?
2. Are you constantly living in a state of fear because you believe God does not love you?
3. Do you allow others to bully you, and believe they are right for doing so?
4. Do you believe you and a few select others are better than everyone else because you belong to a certain group?
5. Do you think that by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations you will cause yourself to grow?
6. Will you go against your instincts in a situation and do something potentially harmful to yourself or another because someone in charge tells you to?
7. Are you willing to separate yourself from your family for the good of your organization?
8. Do you have self worth based on yourself and not on being a part of a group of people?
9. When the phone rings and you see it is your minister on the caller id, does your heart rate go up?
10. Does every conversation you have with another person center on your religion?
11. Are you unwilling to look at any other point of view other than that of the organization?
12. Will you throw out items in your home that you enjoy because a leader told you they were spiritually contaminated?
13. Do you believe there is only one religious organization that is correct and all others are idolatrous?
14. Will you change your manner of dress and appearance to please your leadership, even though it goes against what you like?
15. Will you allow another person other than your spouse to tell you how to raise your children?
Once you answer these questions, tell me if you think you ARE right NOW brainwashed, and then tell me if you WERE brainwashed previously.
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Bramble
I've been thinking about your post JavaJane.
I think the doctrine was easy for me to dump because to me it did not seem to work at all--the longer I stayed in TWI, the worse our lives became, the more our life style was dictated as 'The Word' and yet the uglier it got and the better' unbelievers' lives looked.
Other habits though, are pretty ingrained. We are never late! Our kids are the one who are never in trouble and help out the teachers etc(ya--even at their strict academic school, they are the teacher's pet.s Thank goodness black hair dye and skull earrings are easy to find, or else they would be nerds.)
And if a higher up at work says we should do somehting this way not that way, I don't brush it off as easy as my co workers, who are freer to say so and so is an idiot, that is not how it is done etc.
Prior to this job I taught preschool, where I was the boss for the most part, directed teacher aids etc. Once summer is over and I'm not locked into my kids band schedule, I plan to apply for supervisory jobs--give me that control!! I suspect that is a Way hold over.
Hubby and I don't like to join groups, even though we do see the need to be on the school site council etc. We find we are very critical about how things are done...TWI hold over. We want every thing planned out well ahead of time, and the plan adheared too, while many feel it is fine to 'wing' it...Really, we were involved in Master Gardeners and just couldn't handle it!
This is a big difference for hubby because he's the outgoing type, and once was the pres of this club, and that club...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
11. no 12. not necessarily, maybe the husband should submit if wrong 13. no 14. no.15. yes, but they have potential for life. 16. no, rather the importance of Christ's crucifixation 17. both have equal importance.
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JavaJane
I feel you there, Bramble.... I have the same problems with any kind of event. It drives me absolutely nuts to not have things planned out in advance (for events only, in my personal life, it's another game entirely), and to not have everything you might need for a project will send me over the edge. Deep down, I think not planning something through is inconsiderate for the people you have involved.
I'm not sure if that's Waybrain, or just my personality...
For me, the doctrine doesn't matter that much. People will believe what they will beleive, and it's not up to me to dictate what that is. I think someone could actually hold on to a lot of the twi doctrine and be a lovely person, it all depends on the larger problem - how twi treated people in practice... As we all know what they preach is not the same as what they practice. The actions involved are more hurtful than the doctrines, IMHO.
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Bramble
I think there are lovely people with TWI beliefs, but I think there are also those who see the world very much in an us vs them adversarial view. Not just TWI but other high demand groups. And I think that destroys people and families and communities. It is one thing to keep to yourself in your little group, it is another thing to demonize those not part of your group--because if you think of others that way, how are you going to treat them? Somehow you're going to have to get around to thinking, well, this is how they deserve to be treated, they brought it on themselves( justification for many evils in TWI). So somehow it becomes godly to become hard and cruel...saw alot of that in the nineties, from people who weren't always that way.
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Suda
My result: "You have overcome most brainwashing! " But as I never felt brainwashed, this result does not surprise me. Glad I have my own mind - just wish it were as sharp as it used to be!
Took Shifra's test, and only had 4 yeses. Took JavaJane's and had all no's for now, and one yes for twi days.
Suda
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RottieGrrrl
Ok I originally got that I've been extremely brainwashed and can't I think for myself? But when I changed ONE answer, count them ONE... I got that I have only been minorly brainwashed. The question I chaned was the TV one. Do you watch TV? I originally had, "Heck ya I do!" then I changed it to "yes." Go figure!
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RainbowsGirl
I like Shifra's test, but I think I would see it more as a test of how much you no longer believe twi's doctrines.... While this may be important, I see "brainwashing" in a category separate from doctrine... So here is my new and improved and not so silly quiz:
Java Jane's New Quiz
1. Do you feel you have to check with another person (besides your spouse) before making any major decisions in life?No..although I sometimes would like other opinions feedback and ideas
2. Are you constantly living in a state of fear because you believe God does not love you?No, I always have known that He loves me; God is great at demonstrating Love...He doesn't always like what I do or choose...His forgiveness is a real concern to me.
3. Do you allow others to bully you, and believe they are right for doing so?Never ever did ...I am quite a rebell...I would have most assuredly been thrown out of the Corp almost immediately if I had taken that direction
4. Do you believe you and a few select others are better than everyone else because you belong to a certain group?No, absolutely not...I have never been impressed or awed by titles or status or the like! I am impressed by acts of Love, Courage, Faith and kindnesses...genuineness and heart and soul convictions
5. Do you think that by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations you will cause yourself to grow? It is possible to grow in these types of situations as in any situation but they are not a requirement for growth. Knowledge wisdom and understanding tempered with Love and put into practice have always helped me to grow.
6. Will you go against your instincts in a situation and do something potentially harmful to yourself or another because someone in charge tells you to? Never!
7. Are you willing to separate yourself from your family for the good of your organization?My Family and I are already separated in most areas and categories; but to answer the question I stand up for what I believe is right in any cause or organization. Although, most all the causes, organizations and systems of the world are in some manner or another corrupted or flawed...so it is certainly a situational endeavor at best.
8. Do you have self worth based on yourself and not on being a part of a group of people?Absolutely!
9. When the phone rings and you see it is your minister on the caller id, does your heart rate go up?No, and it wouldn't even if I had a minister to call me.
10. Does every conversation you have with another person center on your religion? No but I believe that all the roots of any conversations are mingled with personal standards, beliefs, knowledge experience and wisdom.
11. Are you unwilling to look at any other point of view other than that of the organization? No, although I neither accept or reject all ideas initially; I weigh them out and think them through based on my accepted standards.
12. Will you throw out items in your home that you enjoy because a leader told you they were spiritually contaminated? No I never did; at times I gave the benefit of the doubt to the leader but put them away temporarily for the occasion only.
13. Do you believe there is only one religious organization that is correct and all others are idolatrous?I Believe in one GOD and I believe He is neither schizophrenic or divided in His ways or intents.
14. Will you change your manner of dress and appearance to please your leadership, even though it goes against what you like?I have always dressed with respect to the occasion and have yet been able to express uniquely my own style.
15. Will you allow another person other than your spouse to tell you how to raise your children?No, I consider advice as advice
Once you answer these questions, tell me if you think you ARE right NOW brainwashed, and then tell me if you WERE Now : Nobrainwashed previously.Previously: No
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JavaJane
Glad to hear it, RainbowsGirl!!
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johniam
quote: Ok I originally got that I've been extremely brainwashed and can't I think for myself? But when I changed ONE answer, count them ONE... I got that I have only been minorly brainwashed. The question I chaned was the TV one. Do you watch TV? I originally had, "Heck ya I do!" then I changed it to "yes." Go figure!
Back in TWI I would always refute the anti cult spiel by saying that the biggest cults in the world were ABC, NBC, AND CBS; they had more people and did a better job of brainwashing. Thank God for cable.
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rosestoyou
My two cents: BEING TOTALLY HONEST HERE!
The customized version of the Brainwashing Quiz:
1. When the Bible is being discussed among your (non-TWI) friends, do you continue to believe that you know more than anyone else about the subject? NO
2. Do you still think that people who believe in the Trinity are "idolatrous" and therefore have forfeited their chances for eternal life? How about their "crowns in heaven"?
NO, but I still believe that JC is not GOD! What's wrong with that?
3. Do you hang on to the idea that all negative things come from the devil?
I believe in free will and in poor judgement, BAD DECISIONS, but yes, I do believe many bad things come from the devil!
4. Do you avoid wearing a cross around your neck or having one as a wall decoration in your home? NO
5. Is your first reaction to a difficult situation to speak in tongues - silently, in your mind - rather than to immediately pursue a solution to the problem? no
6. Do you think environmentalists are nature-worshippers? no
7. Do you use a wooden spoon as a "rod of correction" on your child? no
8. When you experience failure, do you begin to re-trace your recent past in order to identify where you "blew it" spiritually? no, but I have found that things go much better when I look to GOD!
9. When considering whether an idea or event is valid, is the Bible your ultimate reference point for truth? NO
10. If you encounter a mentally ill person, does you "diagnosis" of that person include the name of a devil spirit? I don't include the name of a devil spirit, but I do believe we are all still under attack by the devil............whats that verse, the lion seeketh who he may devour?
11. When you pray, does each sentence of the prayer begin with ... "Thank you father"?
yes and no
12. Do you believe that when a Christian husband and wife disagree, the wife should submit? H___ no
13. When someone is very very very successful at what they do, do you consider that this might be because of an affiliation with the Adversary? It depends on that person and their behavior..........
14. Do you find yourself rejecting any perspectives from other religions? NO
15. Do you believe that babies are not alive until they take their first breath? This is a difficult one.......still thinking...........
16. Does it still matter to you how many were crucified with Christ? Probably not.
17. Is your life patterned more after the Epistles than the Gospels? Could get into some bible here, I will leave that for a new post............
Add up your "yes"s and "no"s. If you have more "yes" answers than "no" answers, you are still brainwashed, and TWI still has a grip on you.
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George Aar
Well, I'm "EXTREMELY BRAINWASHED" - and they'd like to know "how did I ever let it go this far?"
To which I'd like to reply "AGFYS", 'cept I can't seem to find that button...
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