How many men "unthinkingly" put ladies hands on their pants to show them their erections?
Is this a pretty common occurence?
Seriously, is it?...
That CF & S incident hits me as so freakin' weird! Golly, it's almost like a "gateway mindset" – when someone loses a sense of decency, of what's inappropriate, blurs the lines of boundaries – is the next level a questioning of what's morally right? Does it throw the moral compass all off kilter? With a mindset like that - is it any wonder moral depravity is a real problem with some folks of TWI?
Man, this is way off topic,but what the heck, the original premise seems to have vanished down the "terlet" anyhow.
I thought about bringing up the CF&S thread and putting it there but though it might lose some sense of continuity.
So here goes:
Does anyone remember how, in CF&S, Wierwille recounted how a "beautiful" (his word) young woman came to him in a state of distress and revealed to him that the source of her distress was the fact that one of her breasts had not developed at the same rate as the other? He proceeded to describe how he then "counseled" her on the importance of inner beauty and assured her that her breasts were perfect because God had made them.
Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but it seems kinda creepy to me that he would share details of what I'm sure must have been brought to him in confidence. The ministry was still fairly small at that time and there was a strong likelihood someone hearing this recounting may have know the party he described. (Assuming she really existed.)
Like I said, it might have no meaning at all but it always seemed rather odd to me.
Does anyone remember how, in CF&S, Wierwille recounted how a "beautiful" (his word) young woman came to him in a state of distress and revealed to him that the source of her distress was the fact that one of her breasts had not developed at the same rate as the other? He proceeded to describe how he then "counseled" her on the importance of inner beauty and assured her that her breasts were perfect because God had made them.
I don't even want to know anymore....
The facts on this are hazy because it was almost 20 years ago when I heard this:
A person I know told me that a woman he knew recounted a personal story. Her BC was counseling her. The BC told her to take her clothes off and she did, as did the BC. The BC wanted to make a point - that under their clothes they were both just people with no labels.
In hindsight, this is just as odd as telling a woman her breasts are perfect. It just seems to me that there is too much that went unsaid in these stories.
How many men "unthinkingly" put ladies hands on their pants to show them their erections?
I have had my hand guided towards such a discovery on numerous occasions. Sometimes my hand "hit the target" and then my hand hit his face. But when I was aware of the intended target, I avoided said target, and pushed him away. All such attempts were intentional, none were "without thinking". Lots of thinking was going on in their minds.
Now inside marriage, such guidings are acceptable and wecolmed when in the privacy of our home or in another private setting. Never in public! And my husband is gentleman enough to know that.
And Sudo, honey, don't throw that "Gift Ideas for Suda" list away. The only box I want your "special endowment" in is my "box". It's one of my favorite gifts on holidays (or any day). But I like the presents I can open in front of everyone, also. So keep giving them, sweetie!
That CF & S incident hits me as so freakin' weird! Golly, it's almost like a "gateway mindset" – when someone loses a sense of decency, of what's inappropriate, blurs the lines of boundaries – is the next level a questioning of what's morally right? Does it throw the moral compass all off kilter? With a mindset like that - is it any wonder moral depravity is a real problem with some folks of TWI?
Bingo!!! T-bone gets the door prize!!!!
Moving the boundaries a couple inches at a time. Before you know it, no one even bats an eye in surprise when a man takes a woman's hand and places it "on his pants" because he is so happy he has an erection.
Much of what went on in TWI involved inching personal boundary lines back until someone could eventually jump right over them and no one would even notice. In fact it is interesting, if you follow people's stories regarding their experiences with TWI (and it doesn't seem to matter what years they were involved) many will say the first 3 - 5 were great and then things started getting weirder and weirder. I wonder if that is because it took 3 - 5 years to move boundaries back to the place where they could then be jumped without the recipient putting up much resistance.
BTW, someone, mentioned in this thread that he/she was "molested" in their late teens. There are studies that show, many of the people who have been sexually assaulted sufer from boundary issues afterwards. The younger you are the more likely and more severely this will occur.
Just food for thought.
Healthy boundaries are crucial to healthy living, IMO.
I'm flabbergasted that anyone would try to put a positive spin on an old man putting a young woman's hand on his privates like that. Good Lord in heaven, what are you guys thinking??? He couldn't have just told someone he'd been healed of his impotence? That would have been creepy enough, but he had to demonstrate?
For the record, I don't see that Johniam called either the healing or the old man's act "beautiful."
Here's "offending" part of the post with the appropriate sentence in bold type:
quote: I thought CFS was beautiful. I took it 3 times. The first time was at a motel next to a Baptist convention with Donny Fugit running it. Primo! At the end of the class a 70 something man took the hand of a 35 year old family corps woman and placed it on his pants where was an erection and calmly said to her, "Ain't had one of these in 20 years." He got some personal healing during the class and shared it with her and IT WAS NO BIG DEAL!!! That's what was beautiful: the atmosphere, not the pictures or the slang terms for body parts.
What Johniam said was that he thought that CF& S was beautiful.
He also said that some part of this old man's healing was NO BIG DEAL - I think he was referring to the fact that the 35 year old woman's reaction was not one of shock. Perhaps the class all looked doe-eyed at the man and this woman.
"Awwwwwwwwwww...! How wonderful!"
He shared his personal healing with her...
The atmosphere was beautiful.
I still have a problem with this scenario. It seems to me that red flags should have appearing with bells and sirens sounding all around.
Too weird. An old guy gets a hard on in a class and - wait. Why did he get it? I missed that part.
I guess one could argue that if the healing had actually taken place - and I for one am happy to say I don't believe the guy was actually "healed" of anything - the proof wouldn't be getting a woody in a class. Beautiful or not, it's a little too much information for me. If it was working, get a room, y'know? Or a quiet place of your choosing.
I would have preferred he use it in a more productive circumstance. If there wasn't any, what would be the "profit" of him having a stiffy in a class? Please, people. Let's do one thing if we're going to do anything in this class on biblical research - remember - what's the profit?
If the equipment's working, keep it to yourself. That's my motto. Given that such a healing would be a wonderful thing for any man of any age, if there's no use of it....you get my drift. But hey - give the guy a hand. Just not mine.
But I doubt he got healed of anything, other than the need to be around some younger babes for a change, maybe.
Was there coffee and doughnuts at this class? Maybe he could have displayed his new found prowess by...hmmm. Never mind. Bad mind picture. Have to take shower now. Sorry.
Linda - it occured to me that everyone (including me) was forgetting the original post and going on memory. Larry did say that the healing was beautiful - but the comment was still a reflection of Johniam's post.
For real dooj. How much action is a 70 year old guy expecting? "Hey, check it out!! I got one!!! 50 bucks, it's all yours for an hour!!!"
Never let it be said that I, socks, am not for men being men. Men MUST be men. At 7 or 70, manly men have need of properly working plumbing and all that goes with it.
But the man goes along with the equipment. So there has to be some discretion in use and display. It's in the Old Testament, somewhere, forget where, but I'm sure it's in there, that men can be manly all the days of their lives, but of those to whom much has been given, much will be required. And the first shall be last, and the last shall be first unless they have reservations in advance.
So there's plenty of room for everyone's manliness, but it has to be handled with wisdom. Above all, manly men must seek wisdom. And coverage. It's in Zachadiah 14, "let the manly men be covered and let their coverings be sufficient, lest their exposure be of such a manner that it cause others to stumble. Particularly in the kitchen around knives or anywhere there's heavy equipment in use".
Maybe the old guy was confused and thought it was the Advanced Class. He asked for the laying on of hands – and wanted more than just healing – he believed for the raising of the dead!
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
bowtwi
I think I only have one question.
Are both those beards drawn on with magic marker?
That was really funny - in poor taste, but oh man, to think they actually produced that and went through all that work for THAT! LOL
<_< 
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T-Bone
That CF & S incident hits me as so freakin' weird! Golly, it's almost like a "gateway mindset" – when someone loses a sense of decency, of what's inappropriate, blurs the lines of boundaries – is the next level a questioning of what's morally right? Does it throw the moral compass all off kilter? With a mindset like that - is it any wonder moral depravity is a real problem with some folks of TWI?
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waysider
Man, this is way off topic,but what the heck, the original premise seems to have vanished down the "terlet" anyhow.
I thought about bringing up the CF&S thread and putting it there but though it might lose some sense of continuity.
So here goes:
Does anyone remember how, in CF&S, Wierwille recounted how a "beautiful" (his word) young woman came to him in a state of distress and revealed to him that the source of her distress was the fact that one of her breasts had not developed at the same rate as the other? He proceeded to describe how he then "counseled" her on the importance of inner beauty and assured her that her breasts were perfect because God had made them.
Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but it seems kinda creepy to me that he would share details of what I'm sure must have been brought to him in confidence. The ministry was still fairly small at that time and there was a strong likelihood someone hearing this recounting may have know the party he described. (Assuming she really existed.)
Like I said, it might have no meaning at all but it always seemed rather odd to me.
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doojable
I don't even want to know anymore....
The facts on this are hazy because it was almost 20 years ago when I heard this:
A person I know told me that a woman he knew recounted a personal story. Her BC was counseling her. The BC told her to take her clothes off and she did, as did the BC. The BC wanted to make a point - that under their clothes they were both just people with no labels.
In hindsight, this is just as odd as telling a woman her breasts are perfect. It just seems to me that there is too much that went unsaid in these stories.
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Suda
In answer to Sunesis's question:
I have had my hand guided towards such a discovery on numerous occasions. Sometimes my hand "hit the target" and then my hand hit his face. But when I was aware of the intended target, I avoided said target, and pushed him away. All such attempts were intentional, none were "without thinking". Lots of thinking was going on in their minds.
Now inside marriage, such guidings are acceptable and wecolmed when in the privacy of our home or in another private setting. Never in public! And my husband is gentleman enough to know that.
And Sudo, honey, don't throw that "Gift Ideas for Suda" list away. The only box I want your "special endowment" in is my "box".
It's one of my favorite gifts on holidays (or any day). But I like the presents I can open in front of everyone, also. So keep giving them, sweetie! 
Suda
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Abigail
Bingo!!! T-bone gets the door prize!!!!
Moving the boundaries a couple inches at a time. Before you know it, no one even bats an eye in surprise when a man takes a woman's hand and places it "on his pants" because he is so happy he has an erection.
Much of what went on in TWI involved inching personal boundary lines back until someone could eventually jump right over them and no one would even notice. In fact it is interesting, if you follow people's stories regarding their experiences with TWI (and it doesn't seem to matter what years they were involved) many will say the first 3 - 5 were great and then things started getting weirder and weirder. I wonder if that is because it took 3 - 5 years to move boundaries back to the place where they could then be jumped without the recipient putting up much resistance.
BTW, someone, mentioned in this thread that he/she was "molested" in their late teens. There are studies that show, many of the people who have been sexually assaulted sufer from boundary issues afterwards. The younger you are the more likely and more severely this will occur.
Just food for thought.
Healthy boundaries are crucial to healthy living, IMO.
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Danny
Typing as a grease spot the whole pfal deal was a jump
from a lie. veepee started the whole deal frome being a Dr.
which he wasn't. then the whole deal of God teaching him and
trowing out all his books.
Boundaries he broke them all down so I would fall for a lie.
God is great.
veepee was a loser.
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Linda Z
I'm flabbergasted that anyone would try to put a positive spin on an old man putting a young woman's hand on his privates like that. Good Lord in heaven, what are you guys thinking??? He couldn't have just told someone he'd been healed of his impotence? That would have been creepy enough, but he had to demonstrate?
Beautiful??? Words fail me.
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doojable
For the record, I don't see that Johniam called either the healing or the old man's act "beautiful."
Here's "offending" part of the post with the appropriate sentence in bold type:
What Johniam said was that he thought that CF& S was beautiful.
He also said that some part of this old man's healing was NO BIG DEAL - I think he was referring to the fact that the 35 year old woman's reaction was not one of shock. Perhaps the class all looked doe-eyed at the man and this woman.
"Awwwwwwwwwww...! How wonderful!"
He shared his personal healing with her...
The atmosphere was beautiful.
I still have a problem with this scenario. It seems to me that red flags should have appearing with bells and sirens sounding all around.
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Linda Z
dooj, I might be crazy, but I thought Larry said it was beautiful. But then again, I could just be confused. :unsure: Wouldn't be the first time.
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Abigail
Gee, Danny, why don't you tell us what you really think!
Good to see you again.
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socks
Too weird. An old guy gets a hard on in a class and - wait. Why did he get it? I missed that part.
I guess one could argue that if the healing had actually taken place - and I for one am happy to say I don't believe the guy was actually "healed" of anything - the proof wouldn't be getting a woody in a class. Beautiful or not, it's a little too much information for me. If it was working, get a room, y'know? Or a quiet place of your choosing.
I would have preferred he use it in a more productive circumstance. If there wasn't any, what would be the "profit" of him having a stiffy in a class? Please, people. Let's do one thing if we're going to do anything in this class on biblical research - remember - what's the profit?
If the equipment's working, keep it to yourself. That's my motto. Given that such a healing would be a wonderful thing for any man of any age, if there's no use of it....you get my drift. But hey - give the guy a hand. Just not mine.
But I doubt he got healed of anything, other than the need to be around some younger babes for a change, maybe.
Was there coffee and doughnuts at this class? Maybe he could have displayed his new found prowess by...hmmm. Never mind. Bad mind picture. Have to take shower now. Sorry.
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anotherDan
bulwinkl, it's all your fault!
One, cut a hole in a box....
LOL
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doojable
Linda - it occured to me that everyone (including me) was forgetting the original post and going on memory. Larry did say that the healing was beautiful - but the comment was still a reflection of Johniam's post.
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Abigail
No, Larry was just trying to be nice and give JohnIAm the benefit of the doubt when it came to "interpreting" what he wrote.
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doojable
LOL Socks! Consider the profit....can a 70 year old man be a street walker...?
Okay - slap me...
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socks
Is this relevant because it was a "big" thing learned?
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Abigail
OMG, Socks, now THAT was beautiful!!!
I had thoughts along those lines but just could not come up with a delicate way of saying them.
You have such a talent for bringing humor and reality together. :)
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doojable
Renew your mind!...;)
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waysider
Geeze!
That old Beach Boys song just flashed through my head.
You know----
"Wooden it be nice if we were married----------"
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socks
For real dooj. How much action is a 70 year old guy expecting? "Hey, check it out!! I got one!!! 50 bucks, it's all yours for an hour!!!"
Never let it be said that I, socks, am not for men being men. Men MUST be men. At 7 or 70, manly men have need of properly working plumbing and all that goes with it.
But the man goes along with the equipment. So there has to be some discretion in use and display. It's in the Old Testament, somewhere, forget where, but I'm sure it's in there, that men can be manly all the days of their lives, but of those to whom much has been given, much will be required. And the first shall be last, and the last shall be first unless they have reservations in advance.
So there's plenty of room for everyone's manliness, but it has to be handled with wisdom. Above all, manly men must seek wisdom. And coverage. It's in Zachadiah 14, "let the manly men be covered and let their coverings be sufficient, lest their exposure be of such a manner that it cause others to stumble. Particularly in the kitchen around knives or anywhere there's heavy equipment in use".
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Abigail
Well that explains it Socks. Maybe he thought the woman was the only one who could "handle it" with wisdom!
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waysider
"Thou shalt kindle thy wood with wisdom and patient forbearance lest an impetuous spirit vex thee"
Thus it is written in:
The Book Of Matches( literally translated:The Book of Enlightenment)
Chapter 1
Verse 10
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T-Bone
Maybe the old guy was confused and thought it was the Advanced Class. He asked for the laying on of hands – and wanted more than just healing – he believed for the raising of the dead!
Two, put your junk in that box…
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