I originally posted this in doctrinal but maybe it fits here better.
Personal anecdotes only, please.
Doctrinal debates about this topic can be addressed in the Doctrinal forum.
There is already a current thread for that purpose.
:) Well, good luck with this one. Since I've already responded to your request after noting it the first time and you deciding to repeat it (I wonder if that fits WW's definition of spamming ;)) I'll pass here.
I'm just curious though. Why don't you think this topic wouldn't be more appropo in the Doctrinal forum?
My 90-year-old grandmother is currently used as proof of negative believing equals receiving. She says she may not live much longer, a negative confession. So, sometime in the next 10 or 20 years she is expected to fall asleep, due to her negative confession of course.
My 90-year-old grandmother is currently used as proof of negative believing equals receiving. She says she may not live much longer, a negative confession. So, sometime in the next 10 or 20 years she is expected to fall asleep, due to her negative confession of course.
Considering the fact that there are records in the Bible of people living way past 100, 200, or more years -- it might be a negative confession. But given the fact that it's stated by others that you only have so many years to live -- what's the average age for a woman these days? -- it might just be the case that she's believing what others tell her her life-expectancy should be and she thinks she's outlived that statistic by way too many years.
:) Well, good luck with this one. Since I've already responded to your request after noting it the first time and you deciding to repeat it (I wonder if that fits WW's definition of spamming ;)) I'll pass here.
I'm just curious though. Why don't you think this topic wouldn't be more appropo in the Doctrinal forum?
It's really just my opinion, but I feel like the "doctrinal" forum is more of a debate type forum.
You know----- "the scriptures say this", and "according to such and such study---".
If someone feels they would like to approach it from that angle, they can certainly still do so in the "doctrinal" forum.
This is more like what some people call a "testimonial".
(ie: This was my experience.)
Please feel free to move your own response here if you feel it might be more comfortable here or leave it where it currently is. You be the judge.
Ok waysider -- that seems reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised though if some good soul doesn't bring up what the Bible says on the subject and when that happens you're moving into the field of theology.
Anyways -- it's a good topic. I hope you get some good responses.
Considering the fact that there are records in the Bible of people living way past 100, 200, or more years -- it might be a negative confession. But given the fact that it's stated by others that you only have so many years to live -- what's the average age for a woman these days? -- it might just be the case that she's believing what others tell her her life-expectancy should be and she thinks she's outlived that statistic by way too many years.
I think people just know when their body is failing.
Recently(within a couple years ago) a man was diagnosed with a liver problem and told he needed a liver transplant. A Way Believer worked with him on believing and read the blue book to him. This went on for a year or so until the man died. The Way Believer said something like "Well, he new the truth, and decided not to do it"
More evidence for the "Law of Believing". The man was told he needed a new liver, so he believed he would die, and did.
Considering the fact that there are records in the Bible of people living way past 100, 200, or more years -- it might be a negative confession. But given the fact that it's stated by others that you only have so many years to live -- what's the average age for a woman these days? -- it might just be the case that she's believing what others tell her her life-expectancy should be and she thinks she's outlived that statistic by way too many years.
Groucho you're not required to believe it but you can at least consider it and let me know if you think that what others tell you doesn't have a psychological effect on what you believe. And if you believe a certain thing -- like you might be dead at such and such a time if you will do anything which might just bring it to pass. Think about it a bit (and maybe do a little googling on the subject of psychological effects pertaining to health).
Okay, this barely qualifies, but at least it'll get us started. It will actually illustrate, without question and beyond the shadow of any doubt of any kind by anyone, anywhere, ever, that it's an anecdote.
(ahem)
It was about 1971, and a bunch of us including my cute fine girl friend and later to be wife were commuting over to Mill Valley, California from the East Bay for an Advanced Class session. We'd prayed before leaving, the usual stuff, and since we were driving we thanked God for a decent commute, as there's a lot of commuter traffic around them parts around 6 pm. So we took off and along the way, the girls had to make a pit stop so we pulled into a gas station.
As a couple of us sat in the car waiting, I got a distinct feeling to look under the car. That's what it felt like - a feeling. Look under the car. Actually get out, look under the car. Okay.
So I did and lo and behold, there was a steady drip coming down from the back to the ground. I crawled up under and found a good sized ding in the tank, must have been something that hit it, and there was a leak there. I went into the garage and asked the mechanic if he'd look at it. He did and said yup. That's a hole alright, and you've got a leak.
So he said, if you don't want to stop and fix it now, try this - and he went inside and got a bar of soap. Brought it back and a rag and told me to rub the area clean and then quickly push the soap bar up around into the hole, and plug it. Do it hard and fast, and it'll block the hole. So I did and it did. He said we'd be fine to get where we're going, but check it later. He gave me the bar of soap, and I got some gas.
So we prayed again and took off. Everyone was excited. Wow! Cool! Had to be revelation! How'd that work, what happened?
I had no big story to tell, just a kind of dumb look - dunno, I just felt like I should look under the uh...car.
Now, that's how "the law of believing" works, to my mind but really I wouldn't call it that so this anecdote might be misplaced. I'd describe it as general state of graceful normalness where the direction you're going in or need to go in gets a little help along the way. We were "believing" but if I factored in the number of times I haven't had a feeling like that and something went wrong, I come to the conclusion that generally, the "law" is simply that the potential is always there for good to happen and a good outcome to be in play - but I can't explain how or why in every kind of circumstance. If there's a "law" it's the Law of Expectation. Maintaining an expectation for life to go well and that I will have what I need.
Okay. I thought of another incident that might fit the bill.
About 12 yrs ago, the company I work for was planning to shut down one of the five plants it operates. So I prayed about it.
Initially I asked God to intervene to prevent the plant I worked in from being chosen for shutdown. Afterwards, I got to thinking about it. What if there was another believer asking God that the plant he worked at wouldn't be shutdown? That would present a problem. How could God answer my prayer and not the other's if we were both believing for the same thing? So I changed my prayer.
I asked God to intervene to prevent any of the plants from shutting down. But I added one caveat. I said that if that's not possible then let it be mine. I told Him I believe that even if I lost my job He was still my sufficiency and I'll get another job.
The company suddenly changed it's mind due to a great influx of new business. So I kept my job and if there was another believer praying that his plant wouldn't be shutdown kept his as well.
Coincidence? Could be. But I believe otherwise.
What was available wasn't my job at that plant. What was available was any job that would meet my financial needs. How to receive it -- trusting God to come through.
My second year in FLO, I had an old Toyota Celica. The darn thing broke down with frequency, and on this one occasion, it went battery-dead at Limb. It was not an attractive looking car, and since some bigwigs from HQ were coming down the following week, one Saturday morning JM, our noble limb leader, told me to get it started and gone or he would have it towed to a junkyard at my expense.
So, I got PJ and JG and I think someone else, may have been DC, and we went and got a battery for it. Got the battery all charged up nicely just to be sure, and drove back to Limb and put in the new battery. Nothing happened. The guys decided to push start it and put me behind the wheel. Out onto Home Road we went, and they pushed away and nothing happened except instead of in the parking lot, it was stalled in the middle of the little bridge. They raised the hood. We all prayed. Sitting behind the wheel in frustration, because NO ONE could figure out what the he11 was going on with this car, (devil spirit possession was even mentioned by one of my frustrated friends), I randomly pushed buttons on the dashboard. Suddenly I had sound from the radio! "HEY PETE!" I yelled. "The radio just came on!" "Try it." he advised me. It started right up and was fine after that.
No one was wiggling wires or doing anything other than praying. Two of the guys helping me were fairly knowledgable about mechanics and were stymied.
This is the best I can do right now for an anecdote. I do believe God listens to and answers prayer; sometimes He says "no." I don't believe in a magic formula to get His cooperation in whatever I personally may think is best.
Jesus said "whatsoever things ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them".
Based upon that promise the following recollection ... it was a couple of days before the start of Advanced Class 1979 and I was one of those "10-mile marathon runners" to carry the torch from Rome City to Athens OH.
So there I was at Rome City, awaiting the start and was out jogging the day before the marathon. Near the end of my jog I felt pressure and pain in my leg, which I had not experienced during the several months prior training. It was coming from somewhere in the inner leg and caused me to limp, back to the main campus center.
The young lady at the desk saw me limping and ask me what was wrong. I told her that there was a pain in my inner leg that's hurting me, and "I'm supposed to run in the marathon tomorrow".
She laid hands on me and began praying, asking God to heal me in Christ's name. I believed her and believed that God would heal me. The pain was gone.
During the 10 mile run the following day, there was no pain in that area of my leg.
But what established this as genuine healing from God to me was that a day after the run, my whole body ached EXCEPT that one area of my leg that was painful and causing me to limp, two days before. To me, that was nothing short of sensational. Praise God.
See, there was this class I was taking - the professor was a total jerk and had just finished a rant on people missing class and how he was not going to allow people to "make up" classes or work missed during class any more. Period - end of story - don't even bother asking me.
I believed him. I was scared sh1+less of the guy. BUT, PFAL was coming to town and, wouldn't you know it, the first class session was on the same night as this professor's class. I was going to forfeit my non-refundable class fee and just catch PFAL on the next 'go round'.
This would have been my first time to take PFAL with the real TWI (I had already had it with a stick that I thought was the real TWI... long story). I was "strongly encouraged" to ask for the night off anyway. I didn't want to and really believed it was futile to ask. (I was really kinda scared to ask)
BUT, I asked anyway....
Me: There's this Bible class and I paid to take it before I knew the dates and it starts on one of your class nights....
Professor: No problem, Belle.
Me: I wouldn't normally ask, but it was kind of expensive and I've been looking forward to taking it and.....
Professor: Belle, that's fine.
Me: It's a three week course and you can't go to any of the other nights if you miss one class.
Professor: BELLE!!! I said you could go. We'll work something out.
Oh, wait - that's not a good example, is it? Alright, how about this one?
My ex and I had to move. We wanted to rent a house (well, I wanted to BUY a house, but that's a story for another day). We had our budget, we had our list of "needs and wants" and we'd prayed fervently about it. We'd had the whole fellowship praying for that perfect house for us - within our budget. We were believing big for the perfect little place for us. The whole fellowship was believing with us.
Weeks of incessantly lifting and looking for a nice house we could afford to rent - we couldn't find one - we ended up having to pay much more in rent than we wanted to.
Oh, wait, that's not what you were looking for either, is it?
Let's see....
I found WayDale and found out all the lies, deception, corruption, wrong teaching, etc. about TWI and tried to share some of it with my ex. I was praying and "believing" for him to see how awful TWI is and for us to get out of TWI together.
I got yelled at "turned in" to TWI leadership for my rebellion and disobedience. I spent FIVE YEARS praying and believing for my husband to "wake up" and for us to leave TWI together.
My ex left me for TWI.
Darn, that's not one either, is it?
Well, once, there was this torrential downpour outside. I had to go to the drug store and there was this parking spot right up front....
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Larry N Moore
:) Well, good luck with this one. Since I've already responded to your request after noting it the first time and you deciding to repeat it (I wonder if that fits WW's definition of spamming ;)) I'll pass here.
I'm just curious though. Why don't you think this topic wouldn't be more appropo in the Doctrinal forum?
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Bolshevik
My 90-year-old grandmother is currently used as proof of negative believing equals receiving. She says she may not live much longer, a negative confession. So, sometime in the next 10 or 20 years she is expected to fall asleep, due to her negative confession of course.
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Larry N Moore
Considering the fact that there are records in the Bible of people living way past 100, 200, or more years -- it might be a negative confession. But given the fact that it's stated by others that you only have so many years to live -- what's the average age for a woman these days? -- it might just be the case that she's believing what others tell her her life-expectancy should be and she thinks she's outlived that statistic by way too many years.
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waysider
It's really just my opinion, but I feel like the "doctrinal" forum is more of a debate type forum.
You know----- "the scriptures say this", and "according to such and such study---".
If someone feels they would like to approach it from that angle, they can certainly still do so in the "doctrinal" forum.
This is more like what some people call a "testimonial".
(ie: This was my experience.)
Please feel free to move your own response here if you feel it might be more comfortable here or leave it where it currently is. You be the judge.
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Larry N Moore
Ok waysider -- that seems reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised though if some good soul doesn't bring up what the Bible says on the subject and when that happens you're moving into the field of theology.
Anyways -- it's a good topic. I hope you get some good responses.
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Bolshevik
I think people just know when their body is failing.
Recently(within a couple years ago) a man was diagnosed with a liver problem and told he needed a liver transplant. A Way Believer worked with him on believing and read the blue book to him. This went on for a year or so until the man died. The Way Believer said something like "Well, he new the truth, and decided not to do it"
More evidence for the "Law of Believing". The man was told he needed a new liver, so he believed he would die, and did.
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and you really believe what you posted?...
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Larry N Moore
Groucho you're not required to believe it but you can at least consider it and let me know if you think that what others tell you doesn't have a psychological effect on what you believe. And if you believe a certain thing -- like you might be dead at such and such a time if you will do anything which might just bring it to pass. Think about it a bit (and maybe do a little googling on the subject of psychological effects pertaining to health).
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waysider
ANECDOTES!!!!
Oops, was that too loud?
We need anecdotes.
There ought to be a gazillion of them, one would think.
Mr. B.---- your example was, in fact, an anecdote.
Keep 'em comin'!
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Larry N Moore
Larry takes a moment to let the ringing in his ears to subside . . . . :)
Let me see if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that you only want anecdotes and no comments or discussion about them?
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socks
A have one, I have one!!!!!
Okay, this barely qualifies, but at least it'll get us started. It will actually illustrate, without question and beyond the shadow of any doubt of any kind by anyone, anywhere, ever, that it's an anecdote.
(ahem)
It was about 1971, and a bunch of us including my cute fine girl friend and later to be wife were commuting over to Mill Valley, California from the East Bay for an Advanced Class session. We'd prayed before leaving, the usual stuff, and since we were driving we thanked God for a decent commute, as there's a lot of commuter traffic around them parts around 6 pm. So we took off and along the way, the girls had to make a pit stop so we pulled into a gas station.
As a couple of us sat in the car waiting, I got a distinct feeling to look under the car. That's what it felt like - a feeling. Look under the car. Actually get out, look under the car. Okay.
So I did and lo and behold, there was a steady drip coming down from the back to the ground. I crawled up under and found a good sized ding in the tank, must have been something that hit it, and there was a leak there. I went into the garage and asked the mechanic if he'd look at it. He did and said yup. That's a hole alright, and you've got a leak.
So he said, if you don't want to stop and fix it now, try this - and he went inside and got a bar of soap. Brought it back and a rag and told me to rub the area clean and then quickly push the soap bar up around into the hole, and plug it. Do it hard and fast, and it'll block the hole. So I did and it did. He said we'd be fine to get where we're going, but check it later. He gave me the bar of soap, and I got some gas.
So we prayed again and took off. Everyone was excited. Wow! Cool! Had to be revelation! How'd that work, what happened?
I had no big story to tell, just a kind of dumb look - dunno, I just felt like I should look under the uh...car.
Now, that's how "the law of believing" works, to my mind but really I wouldn't call it that so this anecdote might be misplaced. I'd describe it as general state of graceful normalness where the direction you're going in or need to go in gets a little help along the way. We were "believing" but if I factored in the number of times I haven't had a feeling like that and something went wrong, I come to the conclusion that generally, the "law" is simply that the potential is always there for good to happen and a good outcome to be in play - but I can't explain how or why in every kind of circumstance. If there's a "law" it's the Law of Expectation. Maintaining an expectation for life to go well and that I will have what I need.
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waysider
Yes- and--No
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Larry N Moore
:blink:
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Larry N Moore
Okay. I thought of another incident that might fit the bill.
About 12 yrs ago, the company I work for was planning to shut down one of the five plants it operates. So I prayed about it.
Initially I asked God to intervene to prevent the plant I worked in from being chosen for shutdown. Afterwards, I got to thinking about it. What if there was another believer asking God that the plant he worked at wouldn't be shutdown? That would present a problem. How could God answer my prayer and not the other's if we were both believing for the same thing? So I changed my prayer.
I asked God to intervene to prevent any of the plants from shutting down. But I added one caveat. I said that if that's not possible then let it be mine. I told Him I believe that even if I lost my job He was still my sufficiency and I'll get another job.
The company suddenly changed it's mind due to a great influx of new business. So I kept my job and if there was another believer praying that his plant wouldn't be shutdown kept his as well.
Coincidence? Could be. But I believe otherwise.
What was available wasn't my job at that plant. What was available was any job that would meet my financial needs. How to receive it -- trusting God to come through.
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Watered Garden
Okay, here's one you may remember.
My second year in FLO, I had an old Toyota Celica. The darn thing broke down with frequency, and on this one occasion, it went battery-dead at Limb. It was not an attractive looking car, and since some bigwigs from HQ were coming down the following week, one Saturday morning JM, our noble limb leader, told me to get it started and gone or he would have it towed to a junkyard at my expense.
So, I got PJ and JG and I think someone else, may have been DC, and we went and got a battery for it. Got the battery all charged up nicely just to be sure, and drove back to Limb and put in the new battery. Nothing happened. The guys decided to push start it and put me behind the wheel. Out onto Home Road we went, and they pushed away and nothing happened except instead of in the parking lot, it was stalled in the middle of the little bridge. They raised the hood. We all prayed. Sitting behind the wheel in frustration, because NO ONE could figure out what the he11 was going on with this car, (devil spirit possession was even mentioned by one of my frustrated friends), I randomly pushed buttons on the dashboard. Suddenly I had sound from the radio! "HEY PETE!" I yelled. "The radio just came on!" "Try it." he advised me. It started right up and was fine after that.
No one was wiggling wires or doing anything other than praying. Two of the guys helping me were fairly knowledgable about mechanics and were stymied.
This is the best I can do right now for an anecdote. I do believe God listens to and answers prayer; sometimes He says "no." I don't believe in a magic formula to get His cooperation in whatever I personally may think is best.
WG
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excathedra
i was believing for a sign -- a song to come on the radio -- a sign to get married and IT DID (yes, i'm embarrassed) and divorced
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George Aar
I was driving through the parking lot of a WalMart once and was buhleeving for a parking place right up near the front door...
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Larry N Moore
Need, not greed my friend. ;)
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oldiesman
Jesus said "whatsoever things ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them".
Based upon that promise the following recollection ... it was a couple of days before the start of Advanced Class 1979 and I was one of those "10-mile marathon runners" to carry the torch from Rome City to Athens OH.
So there I was at Rome City, awaiting the start and was out jogging the day before the marathon. Near the end of my jog I felt pressure and pain in my leg, which I had not experienced during the several months prior training. It was coming from somewhere in the inner leg and caused me to limp, back to the main campus center.
The young lady at the desk saw me limping and ask me what was wrong. I told her that there was a pain in my inner leg that's hurting me, and "I'm supposed to run in the marathon tomorrow".
She laid hands on me and began praying, asking God to heal me in Christ's name. I believed her and believed that God would heal me. The pain was gone.
During the 10 mile run the following day, there was no pain in that area of my leg.
But what established this as genuine healing from God to me was that a day after the run, my whole body ached EXCEPT that one area of my leg that was painful and causing me to limp, two days before. To me, that was nothing short of sensational. Praise God.
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excathedra
believing schmielivng
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waysider
Banana fana fo fieving.
Now lets do "Chuck"------
ANECDOTES! WE NEED ANECDOTES!------------
"It was a dark and dreary night---------------------"
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Belle
Oh, okay, I'll play:
See, there was this class I was taking - the professor was a total jerk and had just finished a rant on people missing class and how he was not going to allow people to "make up" classes or work missed during class any more. Period - end of story - don't even bother asking me.
I believed him. I was scared sh1+less of the guy. BUT, PFAL was coming to town and, wouldn't you know it, the first class session was on the same night as this professor's class. I was going to forfeit my non-refundable class fee and just catch PFAL on the next 'go round'.
This would have been my first time to take PFAL with the real TWI (I had already had it with a stick that I thought was the real TWI... long story). I was "strongly encouraged" to ask for the night off anyway. I didn't want to and really believed it was futile to ask. (I was really kinda scared to ask)
BUT, I asked anyway....
Me: There's this Bible class and I paid to take it before I knew the dates and it starts on one of your class nights....
Professor: No problem, Belle.
Me: I wouldn't normally ask, but it was kind of expensive and I've been looking forward to taking it and.....
Professor: Belle, that's fine.
Me: It's a three week course and you can't go to any of the other nights if you miss one class.
Professor: BELLE!!! I said you could go. We'll work something out.
Oh, wait - that's not a good example, is it? Alright, how about this one?
My ex and I had to move. We wanted to rent a house (well, I wanted to BUY a house, but that's a story for another day). We had our budget, we had our list of "needs and wants" and we'd prayed fervently about it. We'd had the whole fellowship praying for that perfect house for us - within our budget. We were believing big for the perfect little place for us. The whole fellowship was believing with us.
Weeks of incessantly lifting and looking for a nice house we could afford to rent - we couldn't find one - we ended up having to pay much more in rent than we wanted to.
Oh, wait, that's not what you were looking for either, is it?
Let's see....
I found WayDale and found out all the lies, deception, corruption, wrong teaching, etc. about TWI and tried to share some of it with my ex. I was praying and "believing" for him to see how awful TWI is and for us to get out of TWI together.
I got yelled at "turned in" to TWI leadership for my rebellion and disobedience. I spent FIVE YEARS praying and believing for my husband to "wake up" and for us to leave TWI together.
My ex left me for TWI.
Darn, that's not one either, is it?
Well, once, there was this torrential downpour outside. I had to go to the drug store and there was this parking spot right up front....
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