When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones. (why would he tell us that? What it did was make you want to get in even more and if you did, it was designed to get you to think you were of the elite.)
When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones. (why would he tell us that? What it did was make you want to get in even more and if you did, it was designed to get you to think you were of the elite.)
What a crock.
PB......yeah, underneath the surface of the spiritual veneer was this *break you* doctrine.
So, we sit thru countless hours of teachings and scripture.......countless hours of "exhort & comfort" manifestations.......countless hours of sharings.......and twi corps leaders want to *break and humiliate* us???
DOES A LOVING FATHER TRY TO *BREAK* HIS KIDS...??
Nope.
The corps indoctrination was like living in an abusive household. Never quite knew what the next day would bring.....never quite knew the "mood" of the guy with the microphone.
Always trying to keep you off-balance......keep you off your spiritual equilibrium. And, that was the day-to-day schedule. Imagine when it was jacked-up to the LEAD scenario..??
The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."
WTF???...........sworn to silence to not REVEAL to others what happened at tfi? Trying to "break down" individuals with these experimental techniques?
You want in? Sign on the corps line.
Welcome.........and never look back.
Of course it was a "lock box" kind of thing. Never speak of the bad that is negative believing dontcha know! Besides if folks knew about what really happened less people would be signing on the line.
We didn't want to be lock stepping to VP's little cult, we wanted to be effective ministers to God's children. So often we Corps are blamed as a group for what a few fat heads did that hurt people. What people forget is the price that we paid for the privilage to be placed in a position to help. It was a lot harder than most saw or heard about because of the "lock box/ defend your fellow Corps" teaching. Lack of this knowledge or understanding of this knowledge still causes schism today.
I know the "inner sanctum" initiation at the AC was really a joke, but did you ever stop to think that maybe it was meant as a smokescreen to obscure the fact that there really was an inner sanctum?
I don't mean that in a spiritual sense.
I mean that in the "lock/box" kind of sense.
OOPS! Did I spill the beans on the secret initiation rite I vowed under oath to never reveal?
OOPS! Did I spill the beans on the secret initiation rite I vowed under oath to never reveal?
......secret this, secret that.
My wife told me about the tfi experience.......the all-night scare tactics, the cardboard box "prisons", the pounding and explosive intimidations, the blaring music, the russian overthrow scenario and the ring leaders trying to hype this whole manipulated set-up.
In hindsight, the corps program seems so juvenile.........
Gee.......I wonder if *the school of Tyrannus* as run like that..???
I know the "inner sanctum" initiation at the AC was really a joke, but did you ever stop to think that maybe it was meant as a smokescreen to obscure the fact that there really was an inner sanctum?
I don't mean that in a spiritual sense.
I mean that in the "lock/box" kind of sense.
OOPS! Did I spill the beans on the secret initiation rite I vowed under oath to never reveal?
I just don't know what came over me.
Mum's the word. You never heard it from me.
Shhhhhhh!
Shame on you! No millet for you! And clean up those beans that is a waste of money! Oh and while you're at it you might as well count them because the guy that put 'em in the pot counted them first...you better not have lost any!
As for your question, yes I was aware that there was a definate "pecking order" and those at the top were "privy" to special privilages. I did after all enjoyed the presence of Loy boys sister both in and out of residence. But I'm all better now. :blink:
Shame on you! No millet for you! And clean up those beans that is a waste of money! Oh and while you're at it you might as well count them because the guy that put 'em in the pot counted them first...you better not have lost any!
hey skyrider and polar bear!.............how youse guys doin'?..........
"When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones"
"The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."
Sure, the dancing prez always took his authority from what vic "told him"!!.........he had none of his own......it was all implied by what vic told him!.......and vic successfully created many "frankensteins" by what he "told them"...........this was his practice of "plausible denial"........used most effectively in combination with the "lockbox" bs!..........the monstrosities that vic created were the people like martindale and other hapless morons whose entire identities were created by vic in a very covert, underhanded mind game..........just like he tried to do with TFI!.........but, as i said on another thread, ole vic could never break his son-in-law, john
..........that's why vic basically "dumped" TFI for his own creation, LEAD!.........his "reasoning", (as explained to the corps back then), for dumpning TFI was because of john's refusal to take the holocaust memorial in israel off of his official bible land tours itinerary, despite vic's outrageious verbal harrangues against john's determination to honor his israeli hosts by paying homage to one of their most important "holy sites".........john never bought vic's insane holocaoust denial rap......and, rightfully so i might add!......he saw it for the incredible, and irrelevant bs that it was!.......another "proof" vic used in his attempt to discredit the son-in-law who refused to be broken!!..........the pow camp perversion of TFI was all vic's doing!........after all, he did hold the "pursestrings" to the property at the time.....another damoclean sword he tried to break john with.......but john, again fought his way out from under it, assuming the debt himself, thus effectively severing the last vestages of vic's control over TFI!.........and the final reason for dumping TFI altogether to let more of vic's faithful frankensteins pull off his "vision" for LEAD!
the fact that vic could never break his son-in-law and bring him under his control, is the real reason TFI got dumped!........you see,......martindale flunked at TFI!.....his attempt at being the hero/leader of the failed "escape attempt" which caused the end of the pow camp at that lead session, was roundly criticized by john s. in martindale's final TFI evaluation.......this evaluation was used effectively by vic to break martindale down in order to continue with vic's plans in creating the monster of hypocrisy that martindale was to become for him!.......martindale "beat himself up" over this failure.......after all it was so obvious now to vic that the "special one" was a weak failure...martindale had to re-double his efforts at making this whole pow style corps "training" his own in order to prove to his father in the word that he really was'nt a falilure after all!!....."weed out the weak ones" in order to continually prove to yousrsef you are'nt one of them!!.....remember, the report said that in his feeble attempt to "lead" the "escape" he had "cost the lives" of most of his fellow "prisoners"!......what a way to run a leadership program like the corps......killing off all your fellows!!..........so, whatever vic "told him" to do to remedy his failure and keep his twi future secure, martindale did with all vigor and fervor!!.........that's why he was so rabid in his use of the "break down" style of "training" with the corps!........it was constant reassurance to himself and vic that he was no longer a failure who could'nt be trusted!........so he blindly and wilfully carried out vic's real vision of what the corps training should be all the while deriving his authority from whatever it was that vic "told him"..........which provided all the plausible denial vic could ever want!!!...........if martindale screwed over someone really badly, based on whatever vic "told him" vic could very easily deny ever "telling" martindale anything of the sort..........which he often did......stabbing the hapless okie in the back to cover his own rotten arse!!!.........vic enjoyed playing all ends against the middle.........he did it all the time!!!............great case in point.........martindale's ignorant "excuse" for his flagrant adultery and sexual abuse of his sisters in christ was, "Dr. Wierwille told me that if i did'nt 'loosen up' in this category of life, i'd never be a great leader or lover of god's people"!!!............talk about providing vic with plausible denial!!!...........what an idiot!!...........but, you see, whatever vic "told him" was gospel!!.......it was always "godbreathed"........and vic could always deny it whenever necessary to cover his own tracks.........or use it to browbeat the hapless victims of his perversions into submission whenever necessary!!..........a true monster of hypocrisy if there ever was one!!!
vic was a mean-spirited, alcoholic........imo........a sociopathic, narcissistic, serial sexual predator who "got off" playing with people's lives in order to satisfy his own sadistic perversions...........this has to be said plainly.......no holds barred.........even then there are many who refuse to allow their idols to be tarnished by the truth and facts!!!..........part of vic's illness provided him with the "gift" of manipulation..........he was a grade A manipulator and seducer of people, who sought absolute control over every aspect of the lives of his victims!........an inherent part of his twisted personality.......add to that willing, hapless, morons with no sense of their own identity, no personal integrity, like martindale, and you've got one helluva frankenstein monster to do your dirty work.........and leave ole vic "smelling like a rose"!!!..............plausible denial!..............another tool in the "master's hands"!..........................peace.
Wasn't all this supposed to be a BIBLE program, how to apply the Bible and apply Christian principles?
Yes..... but....
We were told we were in a spiritual battle and we needed to be toughened up to face the enemy.
From what I hear we weren't even well prepared for anything close to a battle at all. No real Biblical training either.
We were supposed to be leaders of God's people. All the runs, aerobic points, classes, LEAD, work, etc., etc., etc.... were supposed to be preparing us for service.
Looking back it wasn't really a college. We took one class at a time and had no real homework. There were no real tests to speak of - no real academics.
Then there was the constant introductions of military elements: gun training, lock box, following orders, etc.
I hear boot camp is much worst. I wouldn't know. On the other hand - boot camp only lasts 6 weeks. We got this a year at a time for two years.
The good moments came from the individuals we met and the friendships we made. Unfortunately we were taught that we had no friends when it came to the Word and eventually many of us even distrusted the few friends we did have.
hey skyrider and polar bear!.............how youse guys doin'?..........
"When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones"
"The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."
Sure, the dancing prez always took his authority from what vic "told him"!!.........he had none of his own......it was all implied by what vic told him!.......and vic successfully created many "frankensteins" by what he "told them"...........this was his practice of "plausible denial"........used most effectively in combination with the "lockbox" bs!..........the monstrosities that vic created were the people like martindale and other hapless morons whose entire identities were created by vic in a very covert, underhanded mind game..........just like he tried to do with TFI!.........but, as i said on another thread, ole vic could never break his son-in-law, john
..........that's why vic basically "dumped" TFI for his own creation, LEAD!.........his "reasoning", (as explained to the corps back then), for dumpning TFI was because of john's refusal to take the holocaust memorial in israel off of his official bible land tours itinerary, despite vic's outrageious verbal harrangues against john's determination to honor his israeli hosts by paying homage to one of their most important "holy sites".........john never bought vic's insane holocaoust denial rap......and, rightfully so i might add!......he saw it for the incredible, and irrelevant bs that it was!.......another "proof" vic used in his attempt to discredit the son-in-law who refused to be broken!!..........the pow camp perversion of TFI was all vic's doing!........after all, he did hold the "pursestrings" to the property at the time.....another damoclean sword he tried to break john with.......but john, again fought his way out from under it, assuming the debt himself, thus effectively severing the last vestages of vic's control over TFI!.........and the final reason for dumping TFI altogether to let more of vic's faithful frankensteins pull off his "vision" for LEAD!
the fact that vic could never break his son-in-law and bring him under his control, is the real reason TFI got dumped!........you see,......martindale flunked at TFI!.....his attempt at being the hero/leader of the failed "escape attempt" which caused the end of the pow camp at that lead session, was roundly criticized by john s. in martindale's final TFI evaluation.......this evaluation was used effectively by vic to break martindale down in order to continue with vic's plans in creating the monster of hypocrisy that martindale was to become for him!.......martindale "beat himself up" over this failure.......after all it was so obvious now to vic that the "special one" was a weak failure...martindale had to re-double his efforts at making this whole pow style corps "training" his own in order to prove to his father in the word that he really was'nt a falilure after all!!....."weed out the weak ones" in order to continually prove to yousrsef you are'nt one of them!!.....remember, the report said that in his feeble attempt to "lead" the "escape" he had "cost the lives" of most of his fellow "prisoners"!......what a way to run a leadership program like the corps......killing off all your fellows!!..........so, whatever vic "told him" to do to remedy his failure and keep his twi future secure, martindale did with all vigor and fervor!!.........that's why he was so rabid in his use of the "break down" style of "training" with the corps!........it was constant reassurance to himself and vic that he was no longer a failure who could'nt be trusted!........so he blindly and wilfully carried out vic's real vision of what the corps training should be all the while deriving his authority from whatever it was that vic "told him"..........which provided all the plausible denial vic could ever want!!!...........if martindale screwed over someone really badly, based on whatever vic "told him" vic could very easily deny ever "telling" martindale anything of the sort..........which he often did......stabbing the hapless okie in the back to cover his own rotten arse!!!.........vic enjoyed playing all ends against the middle.........he did it all the time!!!............great case in point.........martindale's ignorant "excuse" for his flagrant adultery and sexual abuse of his sisters in christ was, "Dr. Wierwille told me that if i did'nt 'loosen up' in this category of life, i'd never be a great leader or lover of god's people"!!!............talk about providing vic with plausible denial!!!...........what an idiot!!...........but, you see, whatever vic "told him" was gospel!!.......it was always "godbreathed"........and vic could always deny it whenever necessary to cover his own tracks.........or use it to browbeat the hapless victims of his perversions into submission whenever necessary!!..........a true monster of hypocrisy if there ever was one!!!
vic was a mean-spirited, alcoholic........imo........a sociopathic, narcissistic, serial sexual predator who "got off" playing with people's lives in order to satisfy his own sadistic perversions...........this has to be said plainly.......no holds barred.........even then there are many who refuse to allow their idols to be tarnished by the truth and facts!!!..........part of vic's illness provided him with the "gift" of manipulation..........he was a grade A manipulator and seducer of people, who sought absolute control over every aspect of the lives of his victims!........an inherent part of his twisted personality.......add to that willing, hapless, morons with no sense of their own identity, no personal integrity, like martindale, and you've got one helluva frankenstein monster to do your dirty work.........and leave ole vic "smelling like a rose"!!!..............plausible denial!..............another tool in the "master's hands"!..........................peace.
WOW.......a suscinct capsulization of wierwille and his manipulative methods!
And.........why martindale was hell-bent on this *make-you, break-you* mentality. What a perversion of true leadership.........no wonder I find the corps indoctrination program so disgustingly disturbing.
In other words...The cornfield huckster was nobody's fool...He played everyone around him...and he did it well.
I've always maintained the perspective that Wierwille's manipulation of people was masterful and worthy of a movie staring Anthony Hopkins...Steve Buscemi will play Howard Allen...
He was a monster...the "werd" he taught was secondary to the blind obedience that he demanded from his minions. What a vulnerable position to be in...empty headed and waiting for Vic to fill it up for you...
Then there was the constant introductions of military elements: gun training, lock box, following orders, etc.
that seems misleading to outsiders ... they wanted us to follow "leadership", but it wasn't really military ...
we had hunter safety, and had maybe 5 shots with a .22, and one shot with a shotgun ... end of gun training. It would have been cool to shoot an AK-47 ... no such luck.
once we went out in the middle of the night to do goofy drills ... that was the hilarious "hit your backs" episode with hendley and the renegade branch Most people got down to do sit ups ... they stood up and "hit their backs" with their hands ... there was supressed laughter ... no one was shot.
I never had orders like "drop and give me 20" ... and I never had a face melting ... maybe I wasn't real leadership material ...
maybe there were too many in the 9th to do all that stuff ... I know lotsa that stuff happened, and the stories from earlier corps ring true ... and it is interesting to hear some history of the psycho "leadership" ...
that seems misleading to outsiders ... they wanted us to follow "leadership", but it wasn't really military ...
we had hunter safety, and had maybe 5 shots with a .22, and one shot with a shotgun ... end of gun training. It would have been cool to shoot an AK-47 ... no such luck.
once we went out in the middle of the night to do goofy drills ... that was the hilarious "hit your backs" episode with hendley and the renegade branch Most people got down to do sit ups ... they stood up and "hit their backs" with their hands ... there was supressed laughter ... no one was shot.
I never had orders like "drop and give me 20" ... and I never had a face melting ... maybe I wasn't real leadership material ...
maybe there were too many in the 9th to do all that stuff ... I know lotsa that stuff happened, and the stories from earlier corps ring true ... and it is interesting to hear some history of the psycho "leadership" ...
OK rhino I'll concede that it wasn't all paramilitary - then again it got worst when the whole mal-pac thing started. It wasn't so much the military elements as it was this underlying mentality that we had to be ready for anything.
I don't know how to put it into words really... just a constant sense of urgency.
Now I look back and realize I wasn't ready at all - not even close. Then I thought it was all life and death.
I don't know how to put it into words really... just a constant sense of urgency.
Now I look back and realize I wasn't ready at all - not even close. Then I thought it was all life and death.
Ready for what?..........mal-paks and location? supplies? communication? red dawn mentality? conspiracy theories? pow torture? american overthrow? america awakes? illuminati infiltration? one world government?
Or..........retemories? mastering pfal? study corps teachings? know every corps' name? tape library? know what wierwille taught on the subject?
Or..........ready for the man of god? know his habits? what china cup does he like? what he eats for breakfast? how he trains his dogs? his drambuie/coffee sipping during corps night? be ready when he nods his head?
Martindale was ready.........and willing to follow wierwille's every whim. And now?
Cgeer was ready...... .....and look where its taken him??
IMO, the corps indoctrination was impossible-information-overload. Purposely, it was designed to intimidate and fluster and break down the most confident of individuals. Thus, if successful to the full extent of the indoctrination.... it stripped one of his/her truly unique spiritual and moral self.......leaving, in its place, a wierwille-idolater.
Ready for what?..........mal-paks and location? supplies? communication? red dawn mentality? conspiracy theories? pow torture? american overthrow? america awakes? illuminati infiltration? one world government?
That's what I was initially referring to...
Or..........ready for the man of god? know his habits? what china cup does he like? what he eats for breakfast? how he trains his dogs? his drambuie/coffee sipping during corps night? be ready when he nods his head?
That was the training in being a doulos dontcha know... You had to keep a careful watch on him and if his finger tapped his plate... or his coffee cup... you had better know if one tap meant "more" or "take this away."
Did he have his own food taster as well?
IMO, the corps indoctrination was impossible-information-overload. Purposely, it was designed to intimidate and fluster and break down the most confident of individuals. Thus, if successful to the full extent of the indoctrination.... it stripped one of his/her truly unique spiritual and moral self.......leaving, in its place, a wierwille-idolater.
vic was a mean-spirited, alcoholic........imo........a sociopathic, narcissistic, serial sexual predator who "got off" playing with people's lives in order to satisfy his own sadistic perversions
DWBH=Haaaaaaa I love it.
You hit the nail on the head.
Not only was VP a control freak he also thought he was a pervert. It's about time most realized that too.
Hey Dooj=Maybe we need a new song -
"lock box, in your socks he's copping a feel, sneakin' in the bathroom door.
It's VP a pevert you see, all he wants to do is score once more.
ready for the man of god? know his habits? what china cup does he like? what he eats for breakfast? how he trains his dogs? his drambuie/coffee sipping during corps night? be ready when he nods his head?
Geez, does this bring back memories!  I remember the list!  The codified specifics of what he liked andÂ
we should have replaced worshiping old doc vic with worshiping God and following His Son.
Many of us did...albeit a bit later than we "thought". The real crime here...at least the eternal crime is the one that seperated God from his children. Yes I believe that VP was all the things that DWBH said and I also believe that he druged, raped and otherwise ruined a lot of lives mentally and physically, but the eternal crime is his crime against the household spiritually.
Some of our brothers and sisters have become agnostic or athiest because of the antics of VP and his little inner group. I know that not all that were in high places bought into his stuff and I know that many acted as filters for those "below" them. God will certainly honor their sacrifice. But VP's enablers will stand next to him and share in his punishment.
Most of us entered into the Way Corps looking to increase our fellowship with God. We wanted to be ministers, teachers and pastors to the rest of the family of God. We didn't go in, as some people seem to think to become face melting salesmen for VP with a side job of washing windows.
I personally never did the whole boot camp thing, or the "hunter training". (I shoot a M-16 for work now and let me tell you it is a pain. Darn thing is just a bit more difficult to shoot with any accuracy at a distance than the movies make it look. I prefer my 9mm.) As for boot camp, my LEAD experience was quite enough fun for me thank you very much. (That part of my story is on this board somewhere.)
As Dooj said, our training wasn't anything like College. There was very little actual Bible taught to us. Our Corps got a lot of condemnation and brow beating. It was our believing that was responsible for VP's death (you can thank us later )
I guess my point is that the Corps program was never what we expected, but we kept trudging along hoping that we could somehow glean what we needed to become the minister that we wanted to be. For the life of me I cannot think of how the sleep deprevation, the small food rations, the lack of actual Bible taught, the face meltings and the general off balance feel of everything was supposed to make us more effective ministers. I just never got it...is that a good thing? :unsure:
We were betwitched by him, some still are, we should have replaced worshiping old doc vic with worshiping God and following His Son.
Once out, looking back, it did seem like it was a spell. It was like walking out of a fog. Even if we didn't fully accept some of the bull, we seemed to hang around and "serve". It was sort of like playing a fantasy game ... the mal pac thing, commies attacking, or whatever it was, never seemed real, yet we "played" along, getting our millet and gear.
The same with MOGFOT ... there were certainly times when I thought vp had an inside track to God ... and there was certainly too much reverence ... but did I ever fully believe this was God's apostle ...? It was more a bewitching to follow along, a willingness to play along, like being in a fantasy game full time. All the surrounding friends and activities supported the illusion.
the corpse never really lived up to its billing ... it was just low budget make believe ... role playing. The promised magic never really happened ... no signs miracles and wonders, no great revelations ... but I stuck around in "the trance". Only the visions of what it was supposed to be were "real".
I remember that horrid shepherd's pie concoction.... and those peanut butter thingies in the "sack suppers" on Sundays.
Hey that concoction may have been horrid, but it was the only time we all got full at dinner, and with lots of cayenne pepper it was edible...and I liked those peanut butter thingies, they were the best part of the sack supper....so much better than those mayonnais coated sandwiches. (cant find the emoticon that pukes!)
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polar bear
Yep you got it Sky.
When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones. (why would he tell us that? What it did was make you want to get in even more and if you did, it was designed to get you to think you were of the elite.)
What a crock.
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skyrider
PB......yeah, underneath the surface of the spiritual veneer was this *break you* doctrine.
So, we sit thru countless hours of teachings and scripture.......countless hours of "exhort & comfort" manifestations.......countless hours of sharings.......and twi corps leaders want to *break and humiliate* us???
DOES A LOVING FATHER TRY TO *BREAK* HIS KIDS...??
Nope.
The corps indoctrination was like living in an abusive household. Never quite knew what the next day would bring.....never quite knew the "mood" of the guy with the microphone.
Always trying to keep you off-balance......keep you off your spiritual equilibrium. And, that was the day-to-day schedule. Imagine when it was jacked-up to the LEAD scenario..??
The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."
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Eyesopen
Of course it was a "lock box" kind of thing. Never speak of the bad that is negative believing dontcha know! Besides if folks knew about what really happened less people would be signing on the line.
We didn't want to be lock stepping to VP's little cult, we wanted to be effective ministers to God's children. So often we Corps are blamed as a group for what a few fat heads did that hurt people. What people forget is the price that we paid for the privilage to be placed in a position to help. It was a lot harder than most saw or heard about because of the "lock box/ defend your fellow Corps" teaching. Lack of this knowledge or understanding of this knowledge still causes schism today.
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waysider
sorry---- double post
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frank123lol
I am glad you corp people are finally getting your say.Not all were nazis.
You should never have to bust people down to make them the best.
As the truth comes out seems wierwillie was more like jim jones than we all thought
Of course being"out" of twi and listening to you who were on in the inner workings
shows the rel way int.
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waysider
OK
I know the "inner sanctum" initiation at the AC was really a joke, but did you ever stop to think that maybe it was meant as a smokescreen to obscure the fact that there really was an inner sanctum?
I don't mean that in a spiritual sense.
I mean that in the "lock/box" kind of sense.
OOPS! Did I spill the beans on the secret initiation rite I vowed under oath to never reveal?
I just don't know what came over me.
Mum's the word. You never heard it from me.
Shhhhhhh!
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skyrider
My wife told me about the tfi experience.......the all-night scare tactics, the cardboard box "prisons", the pounding and explosive intimidations, the blaring music, the russian overthrow scenario and the ring leaders trying to hype this whole manipulated set-up.
In hindsight, the corps program seems so juvenile.........
Gee.......I wonder if *the school of Tyrannus* as run like that..???
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Eyesopen
Shame on you! No millet for you! And clean up those beans that is a waste of money! Oh and while you're at it you might as well count them because the guy that put 'em in the pot counted them first...you better not have lost any!
As for your question, yes I was aware that there was a definate "pecking order" and those at the top were "privy" to special privilages. I did after all enjoyed the presence of Loy boys sister both in and out of residence.
But I'm all better now. :blink:
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doojable
Gotta be a good steward....PUKE! SPIT!
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WordWolf
Wasn't all this supposed to be a BIBLE program, how to apply the Bible and apply Christian principles?
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DontWorryBeHappy
hey skyrider and polar bear!.............how youse guys doin'?..........
"When the indoctrination process started old LOY would say VP told me to try to get rid of the weak ones"
"The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."
Sure, the dancing prez always took his authority from what vic "told him"!!.........he had none of his own......it was all implied by what vic told him!.......and vic successfully created many "frankensteins" by what he "told them"...........this was his practice of "plausible denial"........used most effectively in combination with the "lockbox" bs!..........the monstrosities that vic created were the people like martindale and other hapless morons whose entire identities were created by vic in a very covert, underhanded mind game..........just like he tried to do with TFI!.........but, as i said on another thread, ole vic could never break his son-in-law, john
..........that's why vic basically "dumped" TFI for his own creation, LEAD!.........his "reasoning", (as explained to the corps back then), for dumpning TFI was because of john's refusal to take the holocaust memorial in israel off of his official bible land tours itinerary, despite vic's outrageious verbal harrangues against john's determination to honor his israeli hosts by paying homage to one of their most important "holy sites".........john never bought vic's insane holocaoust denial rap......and, rightfully so i might add!......he saw it for the incredible, and irrelevant bs that it was!.......another "proof" vic used in his attempt to discredit the son-in-law who refused to be broken!!..........the pow camp perversion of TFI was all vic's doing!........after all, he did hold the "pursestrings" to the property at the time.....another damoclean sword he tried to break john with.......but john, again fought his way out from under it, assuming the debt himself, thus effectively severing the last vestages of vic's control over TFI!.........and the final reason for dumping TFI altogether to let more of vic's faithful frankensteins pull off his "vision" for LEAD!
the fact that vic could never break his son-in-law and bring him under his control, is the real reason TFI got dumped!........you see,......martindale flunked at TFI!.....his attempt at being the hero/leader of the failed "escape attempt" which caused the end of the pow camp at that lead session, was roundly criticized by john s. in martindale's final TFI evaluation.......this evaluation was used effectively by vic to break martindale down in order to continue with vic's plans in creating the monster of hypocrisy that martindale was to become for him!.......martindale "beat himself up" over this failure.......after all it was so obvious now to vic that the "special one" was a weak failure...martindale had to re-double his efforts at making this whole pow style corps "training" his own in order to prove to his father in the word that he really was'nt a falilure after all!!....."weed out the weak ones" in order to continually prove to yousrsef you are'nt one of them!!.....remember, the report said that in his feeble attempt to "lead" the "escape" he had "cost the lives" of most of his fellow "prisoners"!......what a way to run a leadership program like the corps......killing off all your fellows!!..........so, whatever vic "told him" to do to remedy his failure and keep his twi future secure, martindale did with all vigor and fervor!!.........that's why he was so rabid in his use of the "break down" style of "training" with the corps!........it was constant reassurance to himself and vic that he was no longer a failure who could'nt be trusted!........so he blindly and wilfully carried out vic's real vision of what the corps training should be all the while deriving his authority from whatever it was that vic "told him"..........which provided all the plausible denial vic could ever want!!!...........if martindale screwed over someone really badly, based on whatever vic "told him" vic could very easily deny ever "telling" martindale anything of the sort..........which he often did......stabbing the hapless okie in the back to cover his own rotten arse!!!.........vic enjoyed playing all ends against the middle.........he did it all the time!!!............great case in point.........martindale's ignorant "excuse" for his flagrant adultery and sexual abuse of his sisters in christ was, "Dr. Wierwille told me that if i did'nt 'loosen up' in this category of life, i'd never be a great leader or lover of god's people"!!!............talk about providing vic with plausible denial!!!...........what an idiot!!...........but, you see, whatever vic "told him" was gospel!!.......it was always "godbreathed"........and vic could always deny it whenever necessary to cover his own tracks.........or use it to browbeat the hapless victims of his perversions into submission whenever necessary!!..........a true monster of hypocrisy if there ever was one!!!
vic was a mean-spirited, alcoholic........imo........a sociopathic, narcissistic, serial sexual predator who "got off" playing with people's lives in order to satisfy his own sadistic perversions...........this has to be said plainly.......no holds barred.........even then there are many who refuse to allow their idols to be tarnished by the truth and facts!!!..........part of vic's illness provided him with the "gift" of manipulation..........he was a grade A manipulator and seducer of people, who sought absolute control over every aspect of the lives of his victims!........an inherent part of his twisted personality.......add to that willing, hapless, morons with no sense of their own identity, no personal integrity, like martindale, and you've got one helluva frankenstein monster to do your dirty work.........and leave ole vic "smelling like a rose"!!!..............plausible denial!..............another tool in the "master's hands"!..........................peace.
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doojable
Yes..... but....
We were told we were in a spiritual battle and we needed to be toughened up to face the enemy.
From what I hear we weren't even well prepared for anything close to a battle at all. No real Biblical training either.
We were supposed to be leaders of God's people. All the runs, aerobic points, classes, LEAD, work, etc., etc., etc.... were supposed to be preparing us for service.
Looking back it wasn't really a college. We took one class at a time and had no real homework. There were no real tests to speak of - no real academics.
Then there was the constant introductions of military elements: gun training, lock box, following orders, etc.
I hear boot camp is much worst. I wouldn't know. On the other hand - boot camp only lasts 6 weeks. We got this a year at a time for two years.
The good moments came from the individuals we met and the friendships we made. Unfortunately we were taught that we had no friends when it came to the Word and eventually many of us even distrusted the few friends we did have.
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skyrider
WOW.......a suscinct capsulization of wierwille and his manipulative methods!
And.........why martindale was hell-bent on this *make-you, break-you* mentality. What a perversion of true leadership.........no wonder I find the corps indoctrination program so disgustingly disturbing.
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GrouchoMarxJr
In other words...The cornfield huckster was nobody's fool...He played everyone around him...and he did it well.
I've always maintained the perspective that Wierwille's manipulation of people was masterful and worthy of a movie staring Anthony Hopkins...Steve Buscemi will play Howard Allen...
He was a monster...the "werd" he taught was secondary to the blind obedience that he demanded from his minions. What a vulnerable position to be in...empty headed and waiting for Vic to fill it up for you...
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rhino
that seems misleading to outsiders ... they wanted us to follow "leadership", but it wasn't really military ...
we had hunter safety, and had maybe 5 shots with a .22, and one shot with a shotgun ... end of gun training. It would have been cool to shoot an AK-47 ... no such luck.
once we went out in the middle of the night to do goofy drills ... that was the hilarious "hit your backs" episode with hendley and the renegade branch
Most people got down to do sit ups ... they stood up and "hit their backs" with their hands ... there was supressed laughter ... no one was shot.
I never had orders like "drop and give me 20" ... and I never had a face melting ... maybe I wasn't real leadership material ...
maybe there were too many in the 9th to do all that stuff ... I know lotsa that stuff happened, and the stories from earlier corps ring true ... and it is interesting to hear some history of the psycho "leadership" ...
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doojable
OK rhino I'll concede that it wasn't all paramilitary - then again it got worst when the whole mal-pac thing started. It wasn't so much the military elements as it was this underlying mentality that we had to be ready for anything.
I don't know how to put it into words really... just a constant sense of urgency.
Now I look back and realize I wasn't ready at all - not even close. Then I thought it was all life and death.
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skyrider
Ready for what?..........mal-paks and location? supplies? communication? red dawn mentality? conspiracy theories? pow torture? american overthrow? america awakes? illuminati infiltration? one world government?
Or..........retemories? mastering pfal? study corps teachings? know every corps' name? tape library? know what wierwille taught on the subject?
Or..........ready for the man of god? know his habits? what china cup does he like? what he eats for breakfast? how he trains his dogs? his drambuie/coffee sipping during corps night? be ready when he nods his head?
Martindale was ready.........and willing to follow wierwille's every whim. And now?
Cgeer was ready......
.....and look where its taken him??
IMO, the corps indoctrination was impossible-information-overload. Purposely, it was designed to intimidate and fluster and break down the most confident of individuals. Thus, if successful to the full extent of the indoctrination.... it stripped one of his/her truly unique spiritual and moral self.......leaving, in its place, a wierwille-idolater.
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doojable
That's what I was initially referring to...
That was the training in being a doulos dontcha know... You had to keep a careful watch on him and if his finger tapped his plate... or his coffee cup... you had better know if one tap meant "more" or "take this away."Did he have his own food taster as well?
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polar bear
DWBH=Haaaaaaa I love it.
You hit the nail on the head.
Not only was VP a control freak he also thought he was a pervert. It's about time most realized that too.
Hey Dooj=Maybe we need a new song -
"lock box, in your socks he's copping a feel, sneakin' in the bathroom door.
It's VP a pevert you see, all he wants to do is score once more.
In our day he'd be in jail.
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now I see
Geez, does this bring back memories!  I remember the list!  The codified specifics of what he liked andÂ
didn't like....the thin lipped white china cup..etc..
Wasn't the greatest leader supposed to be the greatest servant?? Â Â
We were betwitched by him, some still are, we should have replaced worshiping old doc vic with worshiping God and following His Son.
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Eyesopen
Many of us did...albeit a bit later than we "thought". The real crime here...at least the eternal crime is the one that seperated God from his children. Yes I believe that VP was all the things that DWBH said and I also believe that he druged, raped and otherwise ruined a lot of lives mentally and physically, but the eternal crime is his crime against the household spiritually.
Some of our brothers and sisters have become agnostic or athiest because of the antics of VP and his little inner group. I know that not all that were in high places bought into his stuff and I know that many acted as filters for those "below" them. God will certainly honor their sacrifice. But VP's enablers will stand next to him and share in his punishment.
Most of us entered into the Way Corps looking to increase our fellowship with God. We wanted to be ministers, teachers and pastors to the rest of the family of God. We didn't go in, as some people seem to think to become face melting salesmen for VP with a side job of washing windows.
I personally never did the whole boot camp thing, or the "hunter training". (I shoot a M-16 for work now and let me tell you it is a pain. Darn thing is just a bit more difficult to shoot with any accuracy at a distance than the movies make it look. I prefer my 9mm.) As for boot camp, my LEAD experience was quite enough fun for me thank you very much. (That part of my story is on this board somewhere.)
As Dooj said, our training wasn't anything like College. There was very little actual Bible taught to us. Our Corps got a lot of condemnation and brow beating. It was our believing that was responsible for VP's death (you can thank us later
)
I guess my point is that the Corps program was never what we expected, but we kept trudging along hoping that we could somehow glean what we needed to become the minister that we wanted to be. For the life of me I cannot think of how the sleep deprevation, the small food rations, the lack of actual Bible taught, the face meltings and the general off balance feel of everything was supposed to make us more effective ministers. I just never got it...is that a good thing? :unsure:
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rhino
Once out, looking back, it did seem like it was a spell. It was like walking out of a fog. Even if we didn't fully accept some of the bull, we seemed to hang around and "serve". It was sort of like playing a fantasy game ... the mal pac thing, commies attacking, or whatever it was, never seemed real, yet we "played" along, getting our millet and gear.
The same with MOGFOT ... there were certainly times when I thought vp had an inside track to God ... and there was certainly too much reverence ... but did I ever fully believe this was God's apostle ...? It was more a bewitching to follow along, a willingness to play along, like being in a fantasy game full time. All the surrounding friends and activities supported the illusion.
the corpse never really lived up to its billing ... it was just low budget make believe ... role playing. The promised magic never really happened ... no signs miracles and wonders, no great revelations ... but I stuck around in "the trance". Only the visions of what it was supposed to be were "real".
Maybe the borscht was drugged ... :o
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doojable
BORSCHT! You got borscht?!!! Now I'm jealous!
I remember that horrid shepherd's pie concoction.... and those peanut butter thingies in the "sack suppers" on Sundays.
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Eyesopen
Hey that concoction may have been horrid, but it was the only time we all got full at dinner, and with lots of cayenne pepper it was edible...and I liked those peanut butter thingies, they were the best part of the sack supper....so much better than those mayonnais coated sandwiches. (cant find the emoticon that pukes!)
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