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napkinlady

Passive acceptance

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Ok, I am sure this will not be a popular topic with many here at GS (especially remaining innies).

I understand that twi is now no longer beating innies over the head with demands for absolute obedience and allegience to all of their doctrines and rules.

From the "Loose the Bands" thread I see that many are just ignoring what twi says and buying homes and cars and attending whatever meetings they want and doing what they please. This seems to be satisfactory to both the rank and file AND WITH THE BODs.

Is it any wonder why this is ok with the BODs? It is because as long as you are not confronting the evil and just ignoring it, it DOES NOT HAVE TO GO AWAY!

As long as people ignored slavery it continued. As long as people ignored civil rights issues they continued. As long as people ignore evil it can run rampant.

The bus situation in the south CHANGED when the bus sytem was BOYCOTTED - not before.

TWI will not change until TWI gets boycotted!

Real change does not happen by passively going along with a corrupt system. It happens by Godly people standing up and saying enough is enough, we won't take it anymore!

Can an innie make a change by staying? Maybe someday, somehow. Can you make a change by leaving? Absolutely! Especially if enough people do it!

Just buying a house and not being verbally trashed for doing so, does not make everything better. Being able to stand up and say, "You are wrong TWI, you are not teaching the Word of God in this situation, and I am not going to compromise just because I've been a "Way" person for 20 years", now that will make a difference.

And besides, what is the importance of changing TWI? Why not worship God for a change instead of an organization? Jesus Christ did not come to fix the system. He came to give us LIFE.

Napkinlady

Fold TWI, Fold!

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I see what you're saying Napkinlady.

IMO, The BOD is easing up to lull people into a false sense of security. Everything is wonderful at Wayworld. No more pressure. No more demands. I think I'll give more money to them now that they're nice again...

The other thing to think about is once these innies are lulled into a false sense of security and are dug in even deeper than ever, the BOD can announce that revelation has changed once more and the old "present truth" is new again, or they will come up with another doctrine of manipulation and control.

They've had their hand in the innies lives for so long, there's no way they're just going to let go and leave them alone. Remember, fingerprints don't change.

Hope R. color>size>face>

"And I'm on my way, I don't know where I'm going.I'm on my way, takin' my time but I don't know where." P. Simonsize>

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They are giving them what they think they've been asking for. But how long will the BOD hold those smiles on their faces?

If it is not from the heart it will become boring to them soon and they will come up with some "heavy reavy" that they need to resort to such and such again. Especially after someone screws up in this new freedom, that will be their example to retreat.

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I think it will last quite awhile as long as numbers hold up.

Since the Word of God has been replaced with the Word of Bod, they have to rely on loyalty to the organization. There is nothing else in twi. I don't believe they will rock the boat for quite awhile, if ever.

Why should they? They can do nothing and people are satisfied to remain. Much like any other denomination or congregation. The church I grew up in never changed. We had basically the same congregation the whole time I was growing up. No more, no less. No problems. How mediocre!

Napkinlady

Fold TWI, Fold!

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quote:
...the Word of God has been replaced with the Word of Bod...

The Word of BOD --- I love it!!! A new coined phrase hits the Cafe!!!

Thanks NL - icon_biggrin.gif:D-->

Hope R. color>size>face>

"And I'm on my way, I don't know where I'm going.I'm on my way, takin' my time but I don't know where." P. Simonsize>

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It might be a good idea to begin a list of what changes innies should be demanding? Below are a few suggestions:

1. Tell Donna Martindale to go back with her husband.

2. Start teaching that adultery is a sin, and really mean it. No more excuses.

3. No more fear motivation where tithing is concerned. As a matter of fact, no more fear motivation, period.

4. Have BOD term limits.

[This message was edited by oldiesman on March 08, 2003 at 0:43.]

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Oldies I agree that these issues should be mandatory for twi except I don't believe anyone should have the right to tell anyone to marry or divorce anyone. It is their decision whether they will do it or not and their decision on the timeframe they choose to make a decision. I do believe however, that Donna should not be allowed to stay at HQ and live off the ABS.

The other things Oldies mentioned are great ones. As a matter of fact when Rosie was installed, I thought I remembered lcm saying that they were considering that bot level is not going to be considered a life-time position. At the time I thought he was bringing it up so he could have an excuse to be lazy and "retire." Anyway, he left and nothing ever became of that. It probably won't. IMHO--something like this may (or may not)keep crap like lcm from coming in. It would at least keep it from staying--like Bill Clinton. (The Bill Clinton thing is not meant to offend, just my humble opinion icon_wink.gif;)-->)

One other important issue that needs to be addressed is anyting that invoves with people making their own decisions. Like how many times they attend fellowship, a class, or any thing else. Those kinds of things should not be mandated. People shouldn't get flack from that.

Another thing is ditch the "true household of God" bs. My gawd, the Word clearly says it is the Body of Christ!!! They need to stop separating themselves and see the big picture. People shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater if they decide The Way is not for them.

While I was still in, we had a girl who came to fellowship. She loved being with us, but she was raised Jewish and didn't believe the things about Jesus and what he accomplished for us. The FC (nazi) basically shunned her. This girl still wanted to hang out and be friends. But because she didn't accept the doctrine, the fc kicked her to the curb. IMHO--this girl could still benefit from hanging out with us. She may have changed her mind. My gosh, this girl definitely wasn't out to change us. She truly liked us. That FC didn't give her a CHANCE (not opportunity). After all that happened, we saw the girl one more time because we had gone to Hollywood to see a production. This girl came because she had planned it previously and already paid for her tickets. The FC was a cold b-i-t-c-h to this poor girl.

I'm sad that I didn't keep up with this girl myself. I pray that I run in to her and show her what real friendship is--no matter what you believe. She really has a great heart. She made us all Christmas ornaments (she loved Christmas even though she's Jewish). She was so happy to be involved during Christmas. We had a coffee house, and she even read some stories there. She had only been coming to fellowship a few weeks. She really had a great heart to give.

Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life.

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GREAT TOPIC!!!!

I do not think the passive acceptance in TWI is really any different from the Catholic Religion (for example).

In TWI we were always knocking the Catholic religion. But hey, we were no better.

The Catholics push the nuns and priests not to marry

The Way pushed couples to wed and not to wed. Corps marry corps! Believer you cannot marry your unbeliever boyfriend.

In my opinion they have no right to tell you whom to marry. They can read the bible and say to "be evenly yoked". Or if you can serve God by not being married you are more free to move around in your service.

Therefore, they can "suggest things" or share the verses but they both crossed the line in making things edicts.

I know Catholics that married Lutherans -- a no-no. They just did not go to confession anymore or maybe church at all. So, the Catholics lost members.

The Catholics have known for A LONG time there was sexual corruption going on. They choose to ignore it in their leaders. I worked for an x-nun who told me she quit because they wanted her to be Father?s plaything and whatever Father wanted he got. It was also kept quiet and winked at.

TWI the leaders had secret sexual practices. I will not get into as we have covered it in other threads for years.

TWI told people they could not go into debt. Some people bought homes anyway.

Catholics used to NOT be able to have MEAT on Friday but I knew some who did.

I know Way members who still thought there might be a trinity and Catholics who never believed Jesus was God. Neither spoke up.

I like what Oldies man said

TWI should:

Start teaching that adultery is a sin, and really mean it. No more excuses.

No more fear motivation where tithing is concerned. As a matter of fact, no more fear motivation, period.

Have BOD term limits.

In the Catholic church they do not elect the ?Pope? They do not even rid themselves of child molesters.

My point is I think for some reason because God is a little ?mysterious? to all of us that when it comes to spiritual matters, we are more willing to be passively accepting of things. Even if we do not agree with it all. Somehow we think ?those in charge know what they are doing? or something of that ilk.

Why, when it comes to God, can we loose all sense of reason?

Jim Jones had the people drink the kool aide

http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm

David Korash had all women sexually in his group and the men and women allowed it

http://www.rickross.com/reference/waco/waco4.html

The Heaven?s Gate cult

http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/27/suicide.update.am/

http://www.heavensgatetoo.com/

http://www.heavensgatetoo.com/misc/intro.htm

Those are examples of over the edge cults. But what about the Jehovah Witnesses -- they cannot celebrate Christmas or Birthdays. I think they were a more subtle cult then say Heaven's Gate where they removed genitals so they would not sin. I think many of us had trouble thinking we were a cult because we were not more strange than the Catholics and surely we were not like those Heaven's Gate folks -- but we still let other people tell us who God was and what he wanted. Passive Acceptance.

Now, we do not think of the Catholic religion as a cult per se but maybe if it started up in the past 40 years with world wide news we would all be watching in horror as woman ?marry God? and men ?speak for God and absolve sins? Just because it has been around we accept it. I think it got established in part to passive acceptance. Heck, Luther got us the Bibles so we could read for ourselves and we still went LOOKING for someone else to tell us what it meant.

America was settled by the Pilgrims seeking religious freedom ? they did not want to join a cult (the Catholic church)

So, how strong is this passive acceptance and what has it created? Look around. For some reason we all want someone else to explain to us who God is and what he wants?.

It is dangerous.

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on March 08, 2003 at 17:09.]

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Why's the bod putting up with people actually

thinking and living for themselves now, when it

was verboten for so long?

Follow the money.

The bod stands to lose too much abs money if

they get dogmatic now. So, they're willing to

put up with some inconsistency and lapsed

"integrity" in order to keep the money coming

in, which is a higher priority. They're slaves

to their own greed, to a degree.

No man-or bod-can serve 2 masters.

They've made their choice, I've made mine.

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Interesting, I wonder how the laws governing Board of Directors for the state of Ohio would effect the current group directors. Since there are easily more people outside than in, could there be a coup? Could those outside the passive resistence cause a change in leadership. Can you imagine BODs that reveal the findings of the auditors. Actually report what is going on with the finances to those contributing?

Who owns gunnison, what happen to the 750K recieved for rome city, etc?

Sorry, I was dreaming for a minute. I'm awake now. Pass the Java.

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There is of course, a reason that "Board of Trustees" had to be changed to "Board of Directors".

Aside from the obvious change from being a position of trust to one of directing, there were legal issues.

Does anyone know what they are??

Napkinlady

Fold TWI, Fold!

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"The word of bod is the will of bod"

1 no more of the controling we need to know every aspect of your life

2if you are wrong admit it,ever read the ot God

confronted mans evil

3all of us are different respect that,we are not all clones of each other

4your fellowships if they really are self governing then let them be

Yeah I am dreaming,but if it is of God it will

have to change or somthing else will replace it that will be vital

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Banking on the fact that most people that leave, have left friends and relatives and that these, sometimes life long relationships, are more valuable to those that are currently in.

The bottom line is money and that is the determining factor in the current Word of BOD (I like that too, thanks, Napkinlady). The present truth is in only about keeping the numbers up and thus keeping the money in tithes coming in. If an innie can afford a house, and still tithe? well that fulfils the requirement for a good disciple.

The topical percentages on the teachings ?sounding out from the Ohio? still have to have to be better than 60% on telling the faithful to keep giving them money to pay for bs expenses. TWI could be run from a website with two or three people and facilities could be rented if a big group teaching was needed.

Clearly the funds only travel one way, and distribution to ?poor saints? has never been the policy of the way, though it is clearly ?that other never never ever never ever mentioned purpose for collections? to be maintained, both in the book of Acts and in the epistles.

But these scriptural examples have always been glossed over, much like the totally nonexistent teachings on ?proper biblically defined? physical relationships between two people of various ages and marital statuses. This selective type of doctrinal emphasis, always has been used to cloke the practices of convenience and license to the few that have chosen the cushy path of rule over the minions that are willing to support them.

But this soft doctrine is only waiting upon the right personality to effect the same type of control that they can choose to enforce thru a series of yearly themes just like it started in 93-94 with the Way of Holiness theme followed by the living sanctified theme and then all of those Prevailing Themes? which turned the former softer gentler TWI I into the Gestapo type of organization that was run on intimidation and suspicion.

If the money falters, the BOD can and will mantle another strong personality type to gradually play chief Nazi and Enforcer and the whole bunch will obediently slip back into the more rigid micro control that many of us were apart of during the mid to late 90?s.

The kinder softer gentler way, that now promises not the bleach out the colors of the lives of believers was not Lightening Bolt Revelation from God, it only happened when the money dried up because they were exposed as pimps and extortionists.

jedi.

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Napkin lady said, "Can you make a change by leaving? Absolutely. Especially if enough people do it."

If my memory serves me right, we had a mass exodus away from TWI in the late 80's. Looking back it was very good for those who left and turned very bad for those who stayed. The result of our leaving, from my perspective, gave LCM a tremendous amount of conviction and reslove that he truly was deeply right and our leaving proved that. Many of us saw his potential to coerce and manipulate and to inspire others to rise up in his footsteps....very sad...but we left.

ChattyKathy said, "How long will the BOD hold those smiles on their faces."

From what I know and have seen, they will hold those smiles for a long, long time. Both RivenB and Platig are professional showbiz people. VPW was a professional showman. They know how to put on the face every day and in every situation. I don't doubt that they have the same, "look through you gaze" that VPW is said to have had in a previous thread.

This whole passive acceptance issue, in my opinion, is a result of an emotional hi-jacking, where logic, reason, and emotions of the individual are so deeply altered that the true difference between real and fantasy are blurred. Corruption is so deeply entrenched in TWI and compromise on ethical issues are so twisted that it's hard to make sense of it all. To me it seems insane.

Explaining it away techniques in TWI run rampant to cover the compromises. An overused, explain it away phrase is, "God has worked it in my heart." One of the biggest issues that comes up frequently in these threads is the issue about Donna remaining married and on TWI property, living off of ABS. The standard set by the M&A henchmen has been that if one is kicked out the other must go too. If Donna were honest and real, she would pack her bags and get off of the property in accordance with the devilish standard she supported and promulgated for so many years. YOU PEOPLE ON THE INSIDE NEED TO SPEAK UP. YOU ARE COMPROMISED IF YOU TOLERATE THIS!

The only effective voices that there are at present, for any change inside of TWI, are those of the people still in. My lines of communication have been severed with TWI when I left in 87. I believe that my voice is effective in here. I suggest to those that are still in and post here that you realize we left for many different reasons.. I left because of the spiritual manipulation and because I wanted to continue developing my true and vital spiritual realtionship with God, my Father. Because I refused to pledge allegiance to LCM I was dropped from active corps on their ledgers but NEVER in my own mind.

[This message was edited by SlingShot on April 06, 2003 at 22:58.]

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Hi Nappy,

Just a couple things to add or repeat:

If the BOD's are "slacking off" their original agenda, and the innies are passively going with it, they're still being manipulated. Whatever the latest attitude is, we were supposed to follow suit. Do you think anybody would get rebellious to the new change in heart and say, "No way will I buy a house, it's debt, I have all my notes that were taught on this...or, no way will I fellowship with someone not in the household, it's walking in darkness, see I have this in my notes"....and so on. That would be interesting, at least.

They had a real issue with money...when we left HQ after serving so many years there and they knowing full well that we sold everything before going into the corps, they offered us an old metal office desk, old used curtains and one of those old octagon end tables that were in Trustee offices. Yes, they did give us some relocating money, but not it barely got us by.

On the healing end, a good friend recently wrote me about praying for these people and that the best revenge is living well. I have finally started to understand that many of the deceivers are deceived themselves even the cruel ones.

The BOD's wanted to be the BODHEAD in our lives and it blew up in their faces. I only hope that those still in have the strength to get up, to get out and keep walking away from an organization and back into the light of day.

Hope you head this way in the spring..... EH

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Hi everybody! Very Interesting comments.

I didn't think of it before, Mark C Brown, but yes the massive exodus also resulted in change.

Change is not always for the better, but in TWI a massive exodus DOES produce change. (for those people that left the change was for the better) Like you said the change for those that stayed was worse.

A massive exodus again would be better for those that left. Who knows which direction twi would head. Personally from what I know of the Bible and dogs and vomit, I don't think twi can ever get really better spiritually. Not with the root system they have made from lies and wrong doctrine.

Yes, Eaglehouse, I agree people will not stand up for the wrong doctrine they were taught and refuse to buy houses etc. (Thank God!) Although that is what they should do from what twi taught us and it would sure get some attention. No compromised on what taught and all of that.

I know when we refused to accept twi's idiotic stand that rent was not debt and refused to go to the advanced class because we were still in debt with our lease, it got some attention.

EH - We are very much looking forward to our visit your direction in May. Think there are any other Greasespotters in the area we could include?

Napkinlady

Fold TWI, Fold!

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What about guilt? Even if some current "believers" are not being nailed for violating previous TWI laws, I bet these violators continue to struggle with guilt. If they don't feel a little guilty, then they've actually rejected some major Way doctrines, and I would think that people who are this bold would just leave. So ... assuming the guilt is there, in sizable doses, the BOD still essentially has control of it's people.

The previous legalism was like being in jail: tight, dark, cold. Control by guilt is more like barbed wire around a pasture. You may have a bigger space, but you're still not free. And the barbs are right there in your own mind.

Open the gate, innies, it's nice out here. -Pat

schwaiger@direcway.com

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quote:
Real change does not happen by passively going along with a corrupt system. It happens by Godly people standing up and saying enough is enough, we won't take it anymore!

Can an innie make a change by staying? Maybe someday, somehow. Can you make a change by leaving? Absolutely! Especially if enough people do it!


People who speak up are quickly shut up and escorted out the door. Many times the speaking up is to leadership and so no one knows what you've said or that you've spoken up. They only know that you're gone and that they aren't supposed to talk to you anymore. Being afraid of being publicly ostracized and removed from God's protection they choose to believe the only side of the story they get to hear.

I don't know, NL, it's just not as easy as it sounds for some of us. I speak up, believe me, but it's very subtle and it's only one or two things at a time. I've had some serious verbal arguments with my family, but all it did was increase the tension between us and expose the fear they were feeling. I choose to move in baby steps as opposed to speaking up in the manner that you've suggested.

I even teach things that would probably get me in trouble if people stopped to think about what I am actually saying. I contradict TWI on so many fronts, but I only do it one point per teaching at a time. To do anything bolder would get me in trouble and pull me off the platform where I have a chance to wake up some other people.

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