All I can remember is that in 1979 there was a lot of talk about our country going down as in being attacked or taken over; this was also the scuttle butt in 1976 where the word was supposedly there was a group of them who had rewritten the constitution and were going to take over the country. But in 1979 there was an urge for believers to live together and to stock up and get wood burning stoves and such like. I don't remember any SIT alerts.
In 1985, living in a branch home we were roused from our beds as we got the alert late about VP dying and we had a SIT alert and I kept my mouth shut about wondering why we were not awaken while he was still alive but going downhill and pray for him and SIT then instead of doing it once he died.
I do remember living in a branch home in CA in 1986 that CG put out an alert over the phone which the Corps couple had to write down as it was dictated over the phone. Then they had to type it up. Then they called a twig leader meeting and read the proclamation about certain leaders trying to take off with the ministry's ABS and a whole bunch of whowaaa that didn't make sense. It was all for the dramatic flair. They were even instructed when to take breaks from reading this phone in document and when to continue.
Then in 1987 there was another meeting, I believe an emergency meeting where CG called all the corps together on a phone hook up and reamed them and blamed them for not getting their acts together and thus causing all the problems in the ministry. He also blamed Dean Don and others for murdering VPW with their negative believing.
Oh let's not forget POP where he (CG)called all the high and might leadership together and told them that a large percentage was possessed and had advisors in the field who were also possessed.
Made up? You betcha. And for the person's own benefit to scare the beegeezus out of people and produce a facade that wasn't true.
I had a twig leader in the 90's who had to talk to her "leader" and several others before she took her kid in for stitches, I didnt like that at all i was thinking where is the common sense ?
I think some people think they had magic powers and of course the ones in higher positions had even more magic to make the world just go away and reality far far away.
i do believe in prayer but i also believe common sense has a reason .
and ya know where is that "lock box when this stuff is going on in a manner of speaking this is exactly how people where injured and gossip got ahold of many situations.
when i threw my husband out he called ohio and demanded he speak to the leaders (to what tell me not to do it? I laughed at him)
he told me the way corps had me on their list now and the situation was being prayed for.
The bad part about it all.. I think we were conned into thinking we could really make some kinda difference by speaking in tongues eighteen hours a day.. it was mindless repetition at best.
most of the verfiable "results" entailed what did NOT happen.
I can give a pretty good laundry list of bad things that DID happen, despite the most fervent prayer "in the spirit"..
i learned this in twi,,,, not everything is an attack from the devil ya know?
it was insane . to me if you play with a very sharp razor odds are your skin will be cut.
I think it made many into paranoid busy bodies . ha do not worry that you cant pay your bills or feed and get insurance for your children because you went to another advance class again to stay "sharp".
God will cover.
then when the kid needs medical care or the school complains the kid is to sleepy in school cause your running the class this week and is woken up all night ... that must be the devil
it was like we learned to hate people because the unbelievers were the devil himself after awhile.
unbeliever ebing anyone who isnt "standing" in the ministry.
I participated in many mandatory SIT sessions, but exactly how the alerts came down I don't know. as far as I remember they came down (yeah I know it's supposed to be up, but I know where I actually stood on the food chain) through the tree, so I'm sure it's possible anyone high enough could make up their own if they wanted to use people to divide off part of the ministry spoils.
What about those 24 hours of prayer events that came up periodically? They used to do them around Corps placements sometimes, or some other ministry function. I think there was one to save the world from Y2K.
The most inane thing about these was that you had to sign up for a time block, usually an hour, and then you had to go to someone's house or whatever other location was specified, and pray there.
You were not allowed to pray in the middle of the night in the comfort of your own home, in your nightgown, if you had a late night or early morning prayer time.
This meant getting up, getting dressed, and driving across town to pray in someone's living room at 2am or whatever ungodly hour you had been assigned. Whoever was "blessed' enough to host the event had people trooping in and out of their house all day and all night long.
that woodburning stove comment sent me into a fit of laughter
--
Then in 1987 there was another meeting, I believe an emergency meeting where CG called all the corps together on a phone hook up and reamed them and blamed them for not getting their acts together and thus causing all the problems in the ministry.
i just wanted to thank reverend psychogeer for that which was my exit
The only "canned message" I can recall getting was the announcement that VPW had died.
I don't think I was asked to pass it on or write it down.
It seems like I was asked to listen but not respond. Not sure on that.
Once, when I was living in a small town as a field assignment(1974 or 75), I received a call to report(by phone) to Int HQ immediately. Then, they gave me very specific instructions to set up a public meeting for VPW to preside over. It came as a directive, not a request. No questions were allowed. After I knocked myself out making phone calls and spending lots of my own money to get the meeting organized, it was cancelled at the last minute.
I do remember that, in Fellow Laborers, from time to time we would be summoned to report to the "FL basement" where we would have compulsory "seasons of prayer". It was like drudgery because it was usually at a time when we would normally be sleeping and we didn't get much of that to start with.
I also recall having a big season of prayer in twig(not FLO) for revelation to be given for the placement of WOWs and Corps. I think that was in about the mid 80s. Then, we had to put that at the top of our "lift list" for a week or two.
HaHaHaHA---Then I come to find out years later that they basically made decisions based on who had cars and money, etc. and that they even resorted to throwing darts at a dartboard to narrow things down, at least one time.
Meanwhile, VP belittled denominational religions for placement of missionaries based on , as he called it, senses information. He said they should just reach up in the cookie jar like he did--- RIIIIIGHT! And the whole time, there we were, SIT-ing our butts off and losing precious sleep.
I feel kinda foolish in retrospect for thinking my little mental jibberish was somehow having a profound effect on the course of world history.----------SHEESH!
Maybe it's the next time around, we'll make a few better agreements for this existence. But my past agreement involved something like that this may be the last "agreement".
so.. you people are on your own, next time around...
Though I'm sure there was an SIT alert for VP's death, the only one I remember specifically came hen my branch leader told me that "Ermal Owens was waiting the Return." Completely oblivious to the euphemism, I thought Ermal had received some revelation about the imminent appearing of Christ! I caught on quickly after that, though.
Thanks. I was hoping to hear from some of you who were in TWI fairly recently, although I thought that because LCM had the ministry in such a vice grip of control that there wouldn't be any need for SIT alerts. If you had to account for every waking 15 minute period of time then who needs a phone call?
quote: but i think god saw our stupid little hearts
hope it will count for something ???? well if i know god, it will.....
Thanks. I was hoping to hear from some of you who were in TWI fairly recently, although I thought that because LCM had the ministry in such a vice grip of control that there wouldn't be any need for SIT alerts. If you had to account for every waking 15 minute period of time then who needs a phone call?
I got out a year plus a couple months ago. no SIT alerts for a long time, but I think I was pretty much a fringe element liability for the past few years, so if there were SIT alerts no one would have bothered to call me.
personally I kinda doubt whether the current administration cares if anyone prays for them.
Though I'm sure there was an SIT alert for VP's death, the only one I remember specifically came hen my branch leader told me that "Ermal Owens was waiting the Return." Completely oblivious to the euphemism, I thought Ermal had received some revelation about the imminent appearing of Christ! I caught on quickly after that, though.
George
Nope, no sit alerts....no communication telling us vpw was ill....just a short terse paragragh read to us over the phone in the middle of the night that we were to take down exactly. We were to call a meeting the next day with no explanation, we were to read the paragragh exactly as dictated, we were to dismiss the twig and forbid anyone talking about it.
You`d a thought if the powers that be believed in prayer, or cared for vp that they would have had the tens of thousands of believers energized and praying....as it was...we weren`t considered important or effective enough for even a phone call to alert us to the need :(
personally I kinda doubt whether the current administration cares if anyone prays for them.
Now that is a pretty sad testiment for them.
What's worse is that prayer..real prayer (SIT or otherwise) can be a very powerful thing. But sometimes in twi they used it as a control lever. Does anyone else remember the intense condemnation that was shovelled upon the person that didn't take an hour slot to pray in one of those manditory prayer sessions?
It might have been a little different in the Houston area, perhaps because we were spread pretty wide. Though we were asked to come to the "prayer location" if we were close, we could do our hour of prayer from home. I guess we just didn't reach the level of heartlessness that was found elsewhere.
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Really Mandii
All I can remember is that in 1979 there was a lot of talk about our country going down as in being attacked or taken over; this was also the scuttle butt in 1976 where the word was supposedly there was a group of them who had rewritten the constitution and were going to take over the country. But in 1979 there was an urge for believers to live together and to stock up and get wood burning stoves and such like. I don't remember any SIT alerts.
In 1985, living in a branch home we were roused from our beds as we got the alert late about VP dying and we had a SIT alert and I kept my mouth shut about wondering why we were not awaken while he was still alive but going downhill and pray for him and SIT then instead of doing it once he died.
I do remember living in a branch home in CA in 1986 that CG put out an alert over the phone which the Corps couple had to write down as it was dictated over the phone. Then they had to type it up. Then they called a twig leader meeting and read the proclamation about certain leaders trying to take off with the ministry's ABS and a whole bunch of whowaaa that didn't make sense. It was all for the dramatic flair. They were even instructed when to take breaks from reading this phone in document and when to continue.
Then in 1987 there was another meeting, I believe an emergency meeting where CG called all the corps together on a phone hook up and reamed them and blamed them for not getting their acts together and thus causing all the problems in the ministry. He also blamed Dean Don and others for murdering VPW with their negative believing.
Oh let's not forget POP where he (CG)called all the high and might leadership together and told them that a large percentage was possessed and had advisors in the field who were also possessed.
Made up? You betcha. And for the person's own benefit to scare the beegeezus out of people and produce a facade that wasn't true.
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pond
I had a twig leader in the 90's who had to talk to her "leader" and several others before she took her kid in for stitches, I didnt like that at all i was thinking where is the common sense ?
I think some people think they had magic powers and of course the ones in higher positions had even more magic to make the world just go away and reality far far away.
i do believe in prayer but i also believe common sense has a reason .
and ya know where is that "lock box when this stuff is going on in a manner of speaking this is exactly how people where injured and gossip got ahold of many situations.
when i threw my husband out he called ohio and demanded he speak to the leaders (to what tell me not to do it? I laughed at him)
he told me the way corps had me on their list now and the situation was being prayed for.
so a few days later i was marked and avoided .
come on.
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Ham
The bad part about it all.. I think we were conned into thinking we could really make some kinda difference by speaking in tongues eighteen hours a day.. it was mindless repetition at best.
most of the verfiable "results" entailed what did NOT happen.
I can give a pretty good laundry list of bad things that DID happen, despite the most fervent prayer "in the spirit"..
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pond
i learned this in twi,,,, not everything is an attack from the devil ya know?
it was insane . to me if you play with a very sharp razor odds are your skin will be cut.
I think it made many into paranoid busy bodies . ha do not worry that you cant pay your bills or feed and get insurance for your children because you went to another advance class again to stay "sharp".
God will cover.
then when the kid needs medical care or the school complains the kid is to sleepy in school cause your running the class this week and is woken up all night ... that must be the devil
it was like we learned to hate people because the unbelievers were the devil himself after awhile.
unbeliever ebing anyone who isnt "standing" in the ministry.
it was nuts
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Danny
My good friend John.
How are you?
I missed talking with you.
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potato
I participated in many mandatory SIT sessions, but exactly how the alerts came down I don't know. as far as I remember they came down (yeah I know it's supposed to be up, but I know where I actually stood on the food chain) through the tree, so I'm sure it's possible anyone high enough could make up their own if they wanted to use people to divide off part of the ministry spoils.
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2fortheroad
What about those 24 hours of prayer events that came up periodically? They used to do them around Corps placements sometimes, or some other ministry function. I think there was one to save the world from Y2K.
The most inane thing about these was that you had to sign up for a time block, usually an hour, and then you had to go to someone's house or whatever other location was specified, and pray there.
You were not allowed to pray in the middle of the night in the comfort of your own home, in your nightgown, if you had a late night or early morning prayer time.
This meant getting up, getting dressed, and driving across town to pray in someone's living room at 2am or whatever ungodly hour you had been assigned. Whoever was "blessed' enough to host the event had people trooping in and out of their house all day and all night long.
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excathedra
ahhhhhh the memories......
that woodburning stove comment sent me into a fit of laughter
--
i just wanted to thank reverend psychogeer for that which was my exit
(but really thank you joe and ralph !!!!)
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waysider
The only "canned message" I can recall getting was the announcement that VPW had died.
I don't think I was asked to pass it on or write it down.
It seems like I was asked to listen but not respond. Not sure on that.
Once, when I was living in a small town as a field assignment(1974 or 75), I received a call to report(by phone) to Int HQ immediately. Then, they gave me very specific instructions to set up a public meeting for VPW to preside over. It came as a directive, not a request. No questions were allowed. After I knocked myself out making phone calls and spending lots of my own money to get the meeting organized, it was cancelled at the last minute.
I do remember that, in Fellow Laborers, from time to time we would be summoned to report to the "FL basement" where we would have compulsory "seasons of prayer". It was like drudgery because it was usually at a time when we would normally be sleeping and we didn't get much of that to start with.
I also recall having a big season of prayer in twig(not FLO) for revelation to be given for the placement of WOWs and Corps. I think that was in about the mid 80s. Then, we had to put that at the top of our "lift list" for a week or two.
HaHaHaHA---Then I come to find out years later that they basically made decisions based on who had cars and money, etc. and that they even resorted to throwing darts at a dartboard to narrow things down, at least one time.
Meanwhile, VP belittled denominational religions for placement of missionaries based on , as he called it, senses information. He said they should just reach up in the cookie jar like he did--- RIIIIIGHT! And the whole time, there we were, SIT-ing our butts off and losing precious sleep.
I feel kinda foolish in retrospect for thinking my little mental jibberish was somehow having a profound effect on the course of world history.----------SHEESH!
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excathedra
what bastuds
we were puppets ha
but i think god saw our stupid little hearts
hope it will count for something ???? well if i know god, it will.....
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Ham
Maybe it's the next time around, we'll make a few better agreements for this existence. But my past agreement involved something like that this may be the last "agreement".
so.. you people are on your own, next time around...
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waysider
Thanks, exxie, for putting it in perspective for me. :)
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Ham
*&^%$..
imagine.. standing before some stupid committee..
"I'll put up with so and so to do time there.."
"hey, I'll even do one better.."
I feel like I've won the boobie prize..
hope this means something to at least somebody here..
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GeorgeStGeorge
Though I'm sure there was an SIT alert for VP's death, the only one I remember specifically came hen my branch leader told me that "Ermal Owens was waiting the Return." Completely oblivious to the euphemism, I thought Ermal had received some revelation about the imminent appearing of Christ!
I caught on quickly after that, though.
George
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coolchef
if the dead are not alive why did we have to sit? i sat on my arse and had a beer!
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johniam
Thanks. I was hoping to hear from some of you who were in TWI fairly recently, although I thought that because LCM had the ministry in such a vice grip of control that there wouldn't be any need for SIT alerts. If you had to account for every waking 15 minute period of time then who needs a phone call?
quote: but i think god saw our stupid little hearts
hope it will count for something ???? well if i know god, it will.....
You BET it will! :)
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potato
I got out a year plus a couple months ago. no SIT alerts for a long time, but I think I was pretty much a fringe element liability for the past few years, so if there were SIT alerts no one would have bothered to call me.
personally I kinda doubt whether the current administration cares if anyone prays for them.
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rascal
Nope, no sit alerts....no communication telling us vpw was ill....just a short terse paragragh read to us over the phone in the middle of the night that we were to take down exactly. We were to call a meeting the next day with no explanation, we were to read the paragragh exactly as dictated, we were to dismiss the twig and forbid anyone talking about it.
You`d a thought if the powers that be believed in prayer, or cared for vp that they would have had the tens of thousands of believers energized and praying....as it was...we weren`t considered important or effective enough for even a phone call to alert us to the need :(
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Danny
John good subject. Glad you added it.
Prayer alerts might be a good thing.
BUT for TWI it was straight from the devil and showed
how far removed they were from anything that had to do with God.
I Cor. talks about if the hand said to the body I have no need of you
all that stuff.
TWI all that counted if VP had a hang nail or someone in a high position,
The body of Christ will always have a need.
Someones child is sick.
Someone has a accident.
No someone down on the totem pole there problems happened because
of lack of believing
The higher ups need was just need.
The devil was after them because they was moving the word so big.
Just like in Acts the day of Pentecost they divided to everyone as they had need.
No different if it was great or small. No difference in the body.
TWI is straight from hell. A bunch of self serving lying stealing bastards.
They could careless about anyone but there own belly as long as the money
keeps rolling in.
I lived there in Trailer number 2. Right in the heart of it all.
Not even the lowly staffs need was even looked at in a honest manner.
I was exsposed to a harmful chemical, ended up in the hospital for 3 days.
It happened before hqs insurance kicked in. I was on deaths door.
After I recovered somewhat The first thing that happened It became all
my fault for missing revelation. lot of other steps but the end of it
Was to bad to sad pay for it yourself. So what if it happened because of your
job working for us.
Straight from J T's mouth the head of HQ at that time if you don't like it pack.
I have hundreds of incidents I could give from the belly of the beast I lived there.
It was all about one thing MONEY.
Next new Motor Coach Next new Plane Next trip around the world.
And what babe I could get to serve me my Drambouie.
Heartless money grubbing basters that could careless about prayer not unless it was for them.
It was never about the WORD. He had it going on.
The most coved job at HQ was opening the mail. There was one box for the money and
The trash can for prayer request.
Honestly I never one time living there ever heard one prayer request other that a
high up leader family or self.
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Eyesopen
Now that is a pretty sad testiment for them.
What's worse is that prayer..real prayer (SIT or otherwise) can be a very powerful thing. But sometimes in twi they used it as a control lever. Does anyone else remember the intense condemnation that was shovelled upon the person that didn't take an hour slot to pray in one of those manditory prayer sessions?
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GeorgeStGeorge
It might have been a little different in the Houston area, perhaps because we were spread pretty wide. Though we were asked to come to the "prayer location" if we were close, we could do our hour of prayer from home. I guess we just didn't reach the level of heartlessness that was found elsewhere.
:blink:
George
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Danny
I could go on for days about them heartless bastards.
Everyone on the staff had to live on a need basis.
Forget about The Word a workman is worthy of his hire.
My wife and I were recruited because we were professionals.
VP Don and Howard all in the same meeting asked me to come in and
asked me to come on staff. Mainly for my wifes legals background.
If you had a honest need and you were lower in the food chain.
You were told to believe bigger.
You didn't get the new coat to got to there brain washing meeting.
If you kid needed something for school to bad believe.
And forget about talking about it to the next higher up the broken
system you were living in.
MONEY MONEY MONEY
Lust was there belly.
Pray are you kidding me
SIT wow
I wonder today how broken it is there
We live in a broken world it needs prayer.
Pakistan has big Nuclear bombs and it is in utter chaos,
In a blink of an eye we could be in World War 3
A nut job get hold of the button wow its on.
Someone lobs a bomb at Isreal someone retaliates.
World War 3 with no stop
Pray I am all for it.
We should do it for all.
and each other.
And our broken world.
There are even nuts calling them selfs Christians that
want World War 3 to bring Jesus back sooner.
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waysider
Danny
I saw something like this on 61 Minutes or one of those types of shows.
The camera crew went to the dumpster and filmed thousands of prayer requests that had been tossed in the dumpster like yesterday's egg foo yung.
Are you saying you saw something similar at TWI or were you speaking figuratively?
(Not that it would surprise me to find they did something similar.)
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Danny
Figuratively would best describe it.
Living in the heart of the beast I can say I
never one time heard of prayer request from
other than someone high on the food chain.
One time at a lunch someone came in a yelled out of a
staff member having something happen and we prayed.
Other than that same sheet different day.
Lot of talk no action.
Lot of blame no action.
Yea lot of talk about 24 hours of prayer.
I never saw there shadow in the place to pray.
Why.
Just lot of talk.
Complaining about lack of walking on the word.
Lord I believe help my unbelief.
No example of how to do it.
Not to be on my high horse and say I am some spiritual giant.
BUT I don't go around saying I am the man of God of the world.
Why didn't I have the never to stand up and say shut up.
Cause they broke your back and will.
Castigating good people in front of everyone to keep the fear in
you.
IF one thing they did well it was keeping fear in the hearts of those
that loved God. Control
And for all you guest that come here am not bitter.
I see it for what it was. A trap that I let myself get caught in.
Very few regrets in this life. I had great times when I was there.
Loved and was loved. Have lasting relationship with some that was there
with me.
When I was a child I taught as one. At some times you become a man
and put away. You have to see where you are to put any thing away.
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