Wierwille's stories were the bridge that spanned the gulf between reality and bull sh *t...he tied it all together with his home spun tales of supernatural feats that backed up his bogus doctrines...
...and we bought it like a bunch of dumbasses...
Yeah sure, this drunk womanizer who steals other people's work is the answer! I was better off when I was eating 200 mics of orange sunshine twice a week. but who knew?...Well, by God we know now...and it's never too late to put the boots to these sissies.
Classic example, "The Good Samaritan", or as I like to call it "Who Is My Neighbor?". There's a lack of detail in it. In fact, as with most parables if you pick at it for details it unravels. Imagine Jesus and 2 lone scribes sitting 7 hours later in the dark, stomachs growling and one of them asking "So, the road. Was it a muddy road? Because if it was muddy, like after a rain, then I'd have to wonder...."
VPW believed in the "power of the incident" as a way to illustrate a point, validate it. An incident provides "proof". It's debatable but for the one telling it, it's presented as true. Telling one's story, that sort of thing. He taught this to the Corps many times, and has Bill M--ze teach a version of the Dale Carnegie Sales course over several sessions.
It's pretty easy to tell from context and presentation which of PFAL's incidents could be considered "parables". Example, the Red Drapes could have been but that takes some reading into it because he makes it sound like it's an actual woman he knew. The Mother's Fear that Killed Her Son, no. The details are too prominent to the story, and other people are drawn into it.
Jesus Christ is known for the parables in the gospels because they were so universal. Even all these years later something like the "Prodigal Son" has resonance. It doesn't matter whether or not there ever was a real family, the way it touches a person's personal experience is dead-on, if they have any understanding of a family.
The "Red Drapes", classic to PFAL if you've taken it a 100 times, oh boy, here it comes. But not universal. Everyone knows what drapes are but most people just go out and buy them. The details about color are trite, at best. If you want red, get red, why involve God in it? Does He have protocols on drapes somewhere in the Old Testament? And why would a minister bother to get involved pro or con in color selection? Get the red drapes, knock yourself out. It makes it sound like he had too much time on his hands.
Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, 'Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound. But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, but he answered his father, 'Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!' And he said to him, 'Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.
Luke 15 is the "Lost Trilogy". Sheep, coin, son. Should be in everyone's regularly scheduled reading. Redefines the old saying "you can't go home again". Depends on who's keeping house.
I guess it's neither here nor there but something like the "Red Drapes" never hit me like this. Parables teach a point by painting a picture for you. A truth that could be directly stated but that's made within a story the hearer can understand. There can be an "aha!" or "ooooh....yeah.....YEAH!" moment that comes from hearing, where the actual point is understood.
It may be a little like comparing Paganini to Jack Benny, but I never flashed at the Drapes but there's rainbows and happy little squirrels and deer in green meadows for me with this one - the end of the "Prodigal Son" is always hankie time for me. I can't read it without tearing. If you've ever been lost and as gone as yesterday, it does give you hope.
the red drapes were removed from the book version.
What's the big deal? If the book version were the "end all and be all" there wouldn't have been so much insistence that grads sit through a class more than once.
I even remember some grads taking notes right into their orange books to add stuff that they saw in the video version.
The elimination and/or addition of material over the years kind of goes to a separate topic, related in a way I guess. It's micro management of a much larger issue, the integrity of the material itself. Which is the larger issue being discussed, so I guess 'sokey dokey?
I see a great deal of the material in PFAL as being good stuff as they say. My wif' found "taking it" interminable which might surprise those who knew her over the years. It was just too long IMO, even if you were following it.
Not documenting changes was and is Normal Operating Procedure in the Way. Always been like that. Very weird considering that the organization claims to base it's reason for being on the integrity and the accuracy of the Word. PFAL grapples with one of the major issues of anyone wanting to read the bible - no originals. Pick up a copy today, what am I reading? Where'd it come from? What're the processes that produced the stuff I'm reading?
Likewise with the teaching history of the Way. PFAL as a tape, film and video class existed for many years as The Time Stamped Statement of the Material. There's a few glitches here and there in copies I remember but minor, nothing like changing or taking out or adding in a piece of the material. As of 1989, I remember no statement issued on PFAL or it's written accompaniments that documented major changes in the material.
So if something from the Class Like No Other Class changed in it's output, that's big news. BIG news. You'd think. Change a word, add a word - you don't have the Word. Which actually supports the theory that VPW felt it was as close to "The Word" as he could get, because he never authorized any changes in the class itself while he was alive. It justs gets weirder and weirder, as then the best way to approach the published books is that, while they may be useful accompaniments they can't be recognized as accurate renderings of the original if they're not transcripts. You only got one original, get a copy, take it or leave it.
Storeez - do Johnny Jumpup and Maggie Muggins count, under Colorful Characters? Not real of course, and kinda funny the first 178 times you heard them in PFAL. VPW really knew how to spoil a party. In any fellowship of people getting together to read the bible there's going to be contributions, observations, questions, discussion. There should be. Not in the Way though - sit down, shut up, put your Study Beanie on and listen.
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frank123lol
If you refer to "the same freakin stuff"to herr wierwille and pfal,I get that,Now the bible? Well,that is a horse of another color,I think a man can "miss it"and get the religious cult,stuff a life t
Ham
Umm.. I thought that's how it was marketed. So simple a *fool* can't err therein.. easier than falling off a log backwards. vic practically guaranteed answered prayer with his little five step "pr
waysider
Does this make sense? ************************* PFAL--page 30,31 "At the next stop a man came to our compartment in the train saying that he was representing his master who wanted to come and meet
excathedra
i wouldn't give him the key to my glove compartment
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Ham
I might give him the backhand of a glove.
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frank123lol
Emerson Lake and Palmer,Brain Salaad Surgery
Welcome my friend to the show that never ends
"Id like you to go to John 10:10 Averse that literaly
turned my life upside down"
No intro of who he was what he was going to do or end reult.
Guess he forgot tell em what you are going to teach,teachit,then
tell them what you taught them.
You all remember flipping those dam@ charts in that class?
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Ham
yep.. I remember flipping the one little chart which showed the little sin which he apparently forgot..
:)
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GrouchoMarxJr
Wierwille's stories were the bridge that spanned the gulf between reality and bull sh *t...he tied it all together with his home spun tales of supernatural feats that backed up his bogus doctrines...
...and we bought it like a bunch of dumbasses...
Yeah sure, this drunk womanizer who steals other people's work is the answer! I was better off when I was eating 200 mics of orange sunshine twice a week. but who knew?...Well, by God we know now...and it's never too late to put the boots to these sissies.
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waysider
Maybe we should have given him The Key To The Highway.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EilP59o_g...feature=related
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Ham
friend.. I think we always knew.. one way or another..
Now.. why can't we just have a party..
the whole problem.. if I went back to 1961.. I'd probably still be a five year old snot nosed kid..
I dunno.. if I'd want to take what I know now to back then.. they'd probably be carving my brain up trying to figure me out..
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WhiteDove
The key to the city was for the city of Allahabad Looks like the Bombay free press Journal ran a story 11 /10 /55
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Ham
I wonder if they asked for the key back..
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socks
Good information on parables, WhiteDove.
Classic example, "The Good Samaritan", or as I like to call it "Who Is My Neighbor?". There's a lack of detail in it. In fact, as with most parables if you pick at it for details it unravels. Imagine Jesus and 2 lone scribes sitting 7 hours later in the dark, stomachs growling and one of them asking "So, the road. Was it a muddy road? Because if it was muddy, like after a rain, then I'd have to wonder...."
VPW believed in the "power of the incident" as a way to illustrate a point, validate it. An incident provides "proof". It's debatable but for the one telling it, it's presented as true. Telling one's story, that sort of thing. He taught this to the Corps many times, and has Bill M--ze teach a version of the Dale Carnegie Sales course over several sessions.
It's pretty easy to tell from context and presentation which of PFAL's incidents could be considered "parables". Example, the Red Drapes could have been but that takes some reading into it because he makes it sound like it's an actual woman he knew. The Mother's Fear that Killed Her Son, no. The details are too prominent to the story, and other people are drawn into it.
Jesus Christ is known for the parables in the gospels because they were so universal. Even all these years later something like the "Prodigal Son" has resonance. It doesn't matter whether or not there ever was a real family, the way it touches a person's personal experience is dead-on, if they have any understanding of a family.
The "Red Drapes", classic to PFAL if you've taken it a 100 times, oh boy, here it comes. But not universal. Everyone knows what drapes are but most people just go out and buy them. The details about color are trite, at best. If you want red, get red, why involve God in it? Does He have protocols on drapes somewhere in the Old Testament? And why would a minister bother to get involved pro or con in color selection? Get the red drapes, knock yourself out. It makes it sound like he had too much time on his hands.
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waysider
Is there a link for that?
I'm just curious how it reads.
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frank123lol
Yeah If we could go back to 1961,Wed be richer than Bill Gates!!
Old rock song,Life is for learning
We all bailed early enough we will be able to salvage a retirement.
Ig Trouble in Little Cnina It always starts out small
Ole vic went to Haught Ashbury,People easyily fried on drugs are easy to control
I know I was graping at straws,Thought my life was screwed,,,,,,,
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excathedra
socks i do like the story of the prodigal son
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socks
It's a winnah, exris.
Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, 'Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound. But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, but he answered his father, 'Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!' And he said to him, 'Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.
Luke 15 is the "Lost Trilogy". Sheep, coin, son. Should be in everyone's regularly scheduled reading. Redefines the old saying "you can't go home again". Depends on who's keeping house.
I guess it's neither here nor there but something like the "Red Drapes" never hit me like this. Parables teach a point by painting a picture for you. A truth that could be directly stated but that's made within a story the hearer can understand. There can be an "aha!" or "ooooh....yeah.....YEAH!" moment that comes from hearing, where the actual point is understood.
It may be a little like comparing Paganini to Jack Benny, but I never flashed at the Drapes but there's rainbows and happy little squirrels and deer in green meadows for me with this one - the end of the "Prodigal Son" is always hankie time for me. I can't read it without tearing. If you've ever been lost and as gone as yesterday, it does give you hope.
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Mike
It's been noted here long ago,
but it begs repetition here,
the red drapes were removed from the book version.
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cman
You mean I can't have red drapes?
So according to the "book version" I can't?
It would be nice. :huh:
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waysider
Which version do you prefer, Mike, the version with the red drapes or the one without?
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doojable
What's the big deal? If the book version were the "end all and be all" there wouldn't have been so much insistence that grads sit through a class more than once.
I even remember some grads taking notes right into their orange books to add stuff that they saw in the video version.
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socks
Version 7.8c?
The elimination and/or addition of material over the years kind of goes to a separate topic, related in a way I guess. It's micro management of a much larger issue, the integrity of the material itself. Which is the larger issue being discussed, so I guess 'sokey dokey?
I see a great deal of the material in PFAL as being good stuff as they say. My wif' found "taking it" interminable which might surprise those who knew her over the years. It was just too long IMO, even if you were following it.
Not documenting changes was and is Normal Operating Procedure in the Way. Always been like that. Very weird considering that the organization claims to base it's reason for being on the integrity and the accuracy of the Word. PFAL grapples with one of the major issues of anyone wanting to read the bible - no originals. Pick up a copy today, what am I reading? Where'd it come from? What're the processes that produced the stuff I'm reading?
Likewise with the teaching history of the Way. PFAL as a tape, film and video class existed for many years as The Time Stamped Statement of the Material. There's a few glitches here and there in copies I remember but minor, nothing like changing or taking out or adding in a piece of the material. As of 1989, I remember no statement issued on PFAL or it's written accompaniments that documented major changes in the material.
So if something from the Class Like No Other Class changed in it's output, that's big news. BIG news. You'd think. Change a word, add a word - you don't have the Word. Which actually supports the theory that VPW felt it was as close to "The Word" as he could get, because he never authorized any changes in the class itself while he was alive. It justs gets weirder and weirder, as then the best way to approach the published books is that, while they may be useful accompaniments they can't be recognized as accurate renderings of the original if they're not transcripts. You only got one original, get a copy, take it or leave it.
Storeez - do Johnny Jumpup and Maggie Muggins count, under Colorful Characters? Not real of course, and kinda funny the first 178 times you heard them in PFAL. VPW really knew how to spoil a party. In any fellowship of people getting together to read the bible there's going to be contributions, observations, questions, discussion. There should be. Not in the Way though - sit down, shut up, put your Study Beanie on and listen.
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waysider
Speaking of stories, there is one that Herr Doktor tells in CF&S.
It seems a young lady came to him distraught that her breasts had developed unequally.
In her mind, she thought she looked deformed.
He counseled her in private, examined her breasts and assured her she was "beautiful".
(Or did he say "gorgeous"?)
And ya know, somehow I believe that particular stowree is true.
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Ham
I always wondered why they didn't include a book or syllabus or any *real* kind of documentation with that class..
now we know
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excathedra
i was never healed in my sad sorry heart by red drapes, but the coming home thing, definitely.
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Oakspear
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excathedra
i don't really like that book
but at least you can take a pee break when you want
sowwy
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