i just wanted to point out that the r-word is very different from the n-word.
the n-word was SPECIFICALLY created to demean black people. The r-word is a legit word that has been used to describe intellectually challenged people.
I presume tht this is about Pres. Obama referring to his bowling skill as "retarded" on the Tonight Show. Was it "insensitive"? Maybe, but it's hardly a big deal. Now if a Republican had said it...
I have what is probably a controversial view of both the r-word and the n-word (and yes, Obama said "special olympics" and not the r-word as you call it.)
Basically, the n-word is based on the Latin (and Spanish and Portugese) word for the color black. It's simply a mispronunciation that English-speaking people made for the word. The reason it has bad connotations is because the negative connotations were assigned to it by disparaging people with dark skin. Had the kidnapped Africans been treated like kings rather than slaves, the n-word could have been as inoffensive as "brunette".
With words like "retard","special", "mentally handicapped" etc. they have bad connotations because these people are actually inferior to the average person in some way, whether it's intellectual or whatever. The difference here is that we keep changing definitions for their condition because their condition has a negative connotation. We don't want to make them feel bad because they are human beings and have the same feelings as the rest of us. People unfamiliar with special needs people use the term of the day to insult others because of the sense that they are inferior.
So the problem is that to white people, it is entirely possible for us to recognize that black people are equal to us even if they don't look exactly the same. However, disabled people of all types do have something wrong with them. They are obviously not to blame for their predicament, but it simply isn't comprehensible for most of the rest of us to recognize them as our equals. So the term we use for them becomes an insult. When I was a kid, everyone went around using "special" as an insult when we were taught that saying "retard" was rude. It's human nature, unfortunately.
Tonight, the boy jokingly referred to his older brother as a retard. I didn't like it, not even in jest. I called him on it. I grew up in a home where my mom's husband used words like retard and stupid to hurt us. Maybe, I am just too sensitive. Good. I hope so. At least where other people's feelings are concerned. Now if you want to use to use retard or stupid concerning yourself go for it.
nandon, that being said the n word was not SPECIFICALLY created to demean black people. Originally, it simply had to do with the color of the skin. Check out the etomology of the word. Of course, now, decent, loving folks would never use that term. It is the heighth of racial hatred and bigotry.
I presume tht this is about Pres. Obama referring to his bowling skill as "retarded" on the Tonight Show. Was it "insensitive"? Maybe, but it's hardly a big deal. Now if a Republican had said it...
George
... yeah, yeah, I know the old saw. It's _only_ the Repubs who get persecuted when they say something wrong. ... Hells bells, I've seen that 'principle' get shot down so many times eight ways from Sunday, its ridiculous.
the n-word was a made up word used to describe black people. it would be like someone saying "blackie" or "darkie" it was created to demean black people. In english speaking countries blacks were assumed inferior and thus the n-word held all those inferior assumptions when used. It came from a real word, but it was a slang of the real word. Very different than retard or the r-word.
Retard was a real word used to generally describe a mental condition that someone had.
the n-word was a made up word used to describe black people. it would be like someone saying "blackie" or "darkie" it was created to demean black people. In english speaking countries blacks were assumed inferior and thus the n-word held all those inferior assumptions when used. It came from a real word, but it was a slang of the real word. Very different than retard or the r-word.
Retard was a real word used to generally describe a mental condition that someone had.
While your point is well taken, I think it is important to also consider that the cultural evolution of the meaning of the word has made it a significant epithet when used in the manner and context similar to how the President used the term "Special Olympics."
I'm not going to say it was acceptable for him to make that particular verbal faux pas, but I appreciate that he has the self-awareness to realize his mistake/error and apologize without having to wait for a media firestorm.
That is... self-awareness AND personal sense of confidence that allows him to own up to his mistakes without having to be shamed into it.
So since I never call a person who is intellectually challenged the r-word can I call someone who is not intellectually challenged but who is acting stupid, obtuse, or ineffective in some way a retard?
Why not? it is part of the definition of the word...That being said, I usually only hear it in certain circles as too many people are overly sensitive about way too much these days---I dont ever hear and would certainly never say it to someone with a condition but I did hear it a few times just yesterday when I was having my truck--in frindly banter between the two mechanics, and while looking at this incredibly stupidly designed ball joint they pulled out of my front end....the first reaction was .."WTF is that retarded thing?"
It accurately described as the incredibly stupid thing that it was....
I suppose alot of it may depend on the intent. I rarely if ever hear it used as a malicious putdown but can accurately describe a thing or moment when someone is acting stupid
..........
With words like "retard","special", "mentally handicapped" etc. they have bad connotations because these people are actually inferior to the average person in some way,
I vehemently disagree with that
it simply isn't comprehensible for most of the rest of us to recognize them as our equals.
You're generally pretty open minded P-Mosh, and I like you but that really ticks me off.... If it isnt comprehensiblethen just who has the real mental deficiency?
I know a lot of people with various conditions, and although they may not be able to do some of the things that I can do they almost always have abilities to do some other things that far exceed me once i get to know them.
I know that none of them are in anyway inferior to me...of course maybe you are much better than all of us or at least like to carry that illusion around for one reason or another
"Retarded" is not a bad word, in and of itself. How it is applied is another story. The problems arise when the speakers intentions are less than honorable or when the hearer perceives them as such. Unfortunately, we can't always know what the speaker's intentions are or, if we are the speaker, how our words will be perceived. It's best to err on the side of caution, in my opinion. Besides, we all have our own disabilities. Some are just more visible than others.
No, it's actually because I was giving a second-hand account. I had heard that the "r-word" was used. I don't like the President enough to watch him on Leno.
I like and support the President on most of his agenda. Still, I think the use of even "special olympics" to cast comical aspersions of his lack of bowling skills was insensitive, especially since he is claiming to be President of all the people.
biggest problem for me is that now im going to want to say my brother is "intellectually challenged" when he starts acting like an idiot...
so the term intellectually challenged is now going to immediately make me think of the "r-word" and im going to think it's funny.
Just like with the n-word. When I was a kid, it was just a curse word, you didn't say it, it wasn't a big deal if someone did, but it wasn't right.
NOW though, if you say the n-word everyone freaks not because they are more sensitive but because they think they are supposed to freak.
But all this being said, i'll never call an intellectually challenged person the r-word, but i will use it jokingly with my inner circle of friends. same with the n-word, or any other racial slur, mexican, south american, puerto rican, cuban, african, european, canadian, pacific islander, asian or any other race... When you are my friend, it's kinda part of the package, we make fun of our differences in a light hearted way.
but only with my inner circle i'd like to make that clear...
someone said they get "so tired of the words used to label people."
Words are a communication tool used to describe a situation, good, bad, or indifferent. It is ithe individual who turns a word into a lable.
There are many who are labeled, "brilliant" and no one seems to mind that one. However, there are brilliant criminals out there that are downright scary.
I have a "retarded" sister. Retarded was always an accurate description; "developmentally delayed," "special" or whatever the politically correct crowd wants to use the next time around does not change her situation.
I'm not an Obama fan, but I think Obama was simply using self-depracating humor. We have all gotten so touchy in this culture.
someone said they get "so tired of the words used to label people."
<SNIP>
I have a "retarded" sister. Retarded was always an accurate description; "developmentally delayed," "special" or whatever the politically correct crowd wants to use the next time around does not change her situation.
I said that I get tired of the labels.
You say you have a "retarded" sister. Have you looked in her eyes and seen the person inside?... the person that doesn't get noticed because she's different? The person that gets overlooked and dismissed?
"Quit acting so retarded!"
Are you really going to try and tell me that the sentence above is meant as anything else but an insult?
And you're right - the label won't change her situation - but the label would hurt her if she were to hear it spoken in that fashion.
Does "the label" totally describe her? Her abilities? Her aspirations? Or does that label put limitations on her and those that deal with her.
Frankly, I agree that Obama was engaging in some self-deprecating humor. My issue isn't with Obama. I just happen to dislike the habit of using labels to limit and dismiss people. The word "retard" does this.
Agreed, using any of these is rude, inconsiderate, unkind, unnecessary, thoughtless whether one is the President of the United States of America or you and me.
The english language is full and colorful enough for us to address one another with ones that are not even suggestively insulting.
Same with "dude" used by the teenagers, mostly, to put emphasis on whatever it is they're expressing. Meant to insult, no. Irritating, yes.
"That's so Gay" is yet another I hear from kids alot which is just ridiculious. "This homework is so gay". What the heck is that? "This homework is colorful"? or maybe "This homework is homosexual"
Either way it's just a term, to them, meant to express and I get that. But the gay student next to them might not and s/he should be considered.
I don't see anything wrong with using decent, pleasant conversation when we address each other or communicate and it should be taught our children, rather than the massive breakdown of the language and it's poor usage.
I understand, each generation has their trends and everyone easily picks up words that communicate.
But if it's demeaning to another, insulting, thoughtless, etc., then it's wrong.
I used the word retarded once. We had an aunt who was......well, different. I didn't know she was just.......welll, different. I asked one of my brothers if she was retarded, to which he replied " Sis, you with your degrees and talent are more retarded that Aunt Lola"
I got it.
It's a respect for others thing, a 'kind to your fellow human' thing and should be unacceptable.
You're generally pretty open minded P-Mosh, and I like you but that really ticks me off.... If it isnt comprehensiblethen just who has the real mental deficiency?
I was specifically referring to children, although I may not have explained that well. You don't hear adults going around calling each other "retards" very often. It's usually children who throw around insults like that. Adults generally have more empathy than children, but you know as well as anyone that even many adults aren't capable of empathy. That's where things like racism, sexism, jingoism, homophobia and xenophobia come from too.
I know a lot of people with various conditions, and although they may not be able to do some of the things that I can do they almost always have abilities to do some other things that far exceed me once i get to know them.
I know that none of them are in anyway inferior to me...of course maybe you are much better than all of us or at least like to carry that illusion around for one reason or another
Which is why I specifically stated "inferior in some way", rather than as a whole. You are correct that others are superior to all of us in many ways, including those with disabilities. However, disabilities are quietly looked down upon in our society. We "feel sorry" for people, which for some is empathy and for others is a feeling of superiority. I'm not really describing how I feel, but how I see society in general.
Or to look at it another way, let's take this as a scenario -- if a 25 year old woman with Down's Syndrome was going to get married to a 40 year old man who didn't have any mental disabilities, how would you feel about that? If you wouldn't be totally supportive of it, why is that? What gives us the right to judge a consenting adult's relationship? If we question whether or not a person with Down's syndrome can consent or not, we are proving that we believe ourselves to be superior to them in some way.
if a 25 year old woman with Down's Syndrome was going to get married to a 40 year old man who didn't have any mental disabilities, how would you feel about that?
It would depend alot upon the indivduals, my relationship to them, and my perception of their relationship whether I was supportive or not. I would not automatically be for or against but it would depend on who they really were before I could realize what my feelings about there individual situation would be---and then I'd tell them given the opportunity...If I dont know them then its really not my business to judge--just to wish them well
If you wouldn't be totally supportive of it, why is that?
....Ive been asked to be in a wedding party, ( best man, performing the service etc) several times.
Ive been to a few that I wouldnt give my "blessing' and consent to as part of the wedding to because knowing the individuals I didnt think they were right for each other and would have problems that they couldnt foresee..These for the most part were average everyday people. Most people I'll support unless its apparent they are headed for severe rocky shoals orone partner is obviously manipulating the other
I was involved in a wedding a few years ago where one of the parties was completely paralyzed and terminally ill BUT the love between the two was genuine and deep--I had no problem with being in that wedding
What gives us the right to judge a consenting adult's relationship?
Nothing as far as I know...If Im involved somehow I'll take a more active interest and develop and offer an opinion based on who those individuals are--other than that its between those two.
It hasnt been that long since there were laws against inter racial marriages, now there is the big hullaballoo about gays getting married ...As i said its not mine to judge personal matters of the heart between two people--nor is it really anybodies. I know people that are "disabled" that are married that do just fine
Someone may have already pointed this out. . . sorry if it is superfluous, but in Massachusetts the DMR is the Department of Mental Retardation. A part of Health and Human Services. . I imagine it is like that in other states as well.
The term itself is descriptive and has been used in behavior plans and such to indicate mild, moderate, or severe mental retardation.
I like and support the President on most of his agenda. Still, I think the use of even "special olympics" to cast comical aspersions of his lack of bowling skills was insensitive, especially since he is claiming to be President of all the people.
It was insensitive, maybe he won't return to a relaxed environment like Leno again . . .
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nandon
i just wanted to point out that the r-word is very different from the n-word.
the n-word was SPECIFICALLY created to demean black people. The r-word is a legit word that has been used to describe intellectually challenged people.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I presume tht this is about Pres. Obama referring to his bowling skill as "retarded" on the Tonight Show. Was it "insensitive"? Maybe, but it's hardly a big deal. Now if a Republican had said it...
George
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Bolshevik
I thought he said "special Olympics" and that was issue. Although my memory might be r-worded.
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Mister P-Mosh
I have what is probably a controversial view of both the r-word and the n-word (and yes, Obama said "special olympics" and not the r-word as you call it.)
Basically, the n-word is based on the Latin (and Spanish and Portugese) word for the color black. It's simply a mispronunciation that English-speaking people made for the word. The reason it has bad connotations is because the negative connotations were assigned to it by disparaging people with dark skin. Had the kidnapped Africans been treated like kings rather than slaves, the n-word could have been as inoffensive as "brunette".
With words like "retard","special", "mentally handicapped" etc. they have bad connotations because these people are actually inferior to the average person in some way, whether it's intellectual or whatever. The difference here is that we keep changing definitions for their condition because their condition has a negative connotation. We don't want to make them feel bad because they are human beings and have the same feelings as the rest of us. People unfamiliar with special needs people use the term of the day to insult others because of the sense that they are inferior.
So the problem is that to white people, it is entirely possible for us to recognize that black people are equal to us even if they don't look exactly the same. However, disabled people of all types do have something wrong with them. They are obviously not to blame for their predicament, but it simply isn't comprehensible for most of the rest of us to recognize them as our equals. So the term we use for them becomes an insult. When I was a kid, everyone went around using "special" as an insult when we were taught that saying "retard" was rude. It's human nature, unfortunately.
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kimberly
Tonight, the boy jokingly referred to his older brother as a retard. I didn't like it, not even in jest. I called him on it. I grew up in a home where my mom's husband used words like retard and stupid to hurt us. Maybe, I am just too sensitive. Good. I hope so. At least where other people's feelings are concerned. Now if you want to use to use retard or stupid concerning yourself go for it.
nandon, that being said the n word was not SPECIFICALLY created to demean black people. Originally, it simply had to do with the color of the skin. Check out the etomology of the word. Of course, now, decent, loving folks would never use that term. It is the heighth of racial hatred and bigotry.
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doojable
I haven't heard the "r" word used in years. I used it as a child to refer to people with Down's Syndrome.
I get so tired of the words used to label people.
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Bolshevik
I believe I've heard it many times, without reference to a person or group.
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Bolshevik
I've never heard the phrase "r-word" before. The word is retard. Just a word.
Say "black". Say "white". Do you think about paint, or people? Or bears?
just thinking . . .
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GarthP2000
... yeah, yeah, I know the old saw. It's _only_ the Repubs who get persecuted when they say something wrong. ... Hells bells, I've seen that 'principle' get shot down so many times eight ways from Sunday, its ridiculous.
<_<
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nandon
Kimberly,
the n-word was a made up word used to describe black people. it would be like someone saying "blackie" or "darkie" it was created to demean black people. In english speaking countries blacks were assumed inferior and thus the n-word held all those inferior assumptions when used. It came from a real word, but it was a slang of the real word. Very different than retard or the r-word.
Retard was a real word used to generally describe a mental condition that someone had.
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Rocky
You are correct. The Ph.D. took some liberties...
Likely because he doesn't like the President.
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Rocky
While your point is well taken, I think it is important to also consider that the cultural evolution of the meaning of the word has made it a significant epithet when used in the manner and context similar to how the President used the term "Special Olympics."
I'm not going to say it was acceptable for him to make that particular verbal faux pas, but I appreciate that he has the self-awareness to realize his mistake/error and apologize without having to wait for a media firestorm.
That is... self-awareness AND personal sense of confidence that allows him to own up to his mistakes without having to be shamed into it.
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mstar1
Why not? it is part of the definition of the word...That being said, I usually only hear it in certain circles as too many people are overly sensitive about way too much these days---I dont ever hear and would certainly never say it to someone with a condition but I did hear it a few times just yesterday when I was having my truck--in frindly banter between the two mechanics, and while looking at this incredibly stupidly designed ball joint they pulled out of my front end....the first reaction was .."WTF is that retarded thing?"
It accurately described as the incredibly stupid thing that it was....
I suppose alot of it may depend on the intent. I rarely if ever hear it used as a malicious putdown but can accurately describe a thing or moment when someone is acting stupid
..........
I vehemently disagree with that
You're generally pretty open minded P-Mosh, and I like you but that really ticks me off.... If it isnt comprehensiblethen just who has the real mental deficiency?
I know a lot of people with various conditions, and although they may not be able to do some of the things that I can do they almost always have abilities to do some other things that far exceed me once i get to know them.
I know that none of them are in anyway inferior to me...of course maybe you are much better than all of us or at least like to carry that illusion around for one reason or another
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waysider
"Retarded" is not a bad word, in and of itself. How it is applied is another story. The problems arise when the speakers intentions are less than honorable or when the hearer perceives them as such. Unfortunately, we can't always know what the speaker's intentions are or, if we are the speaker, how our words will be perceived. It's best to err on the side of caution, in my opinion. Besides, we all have our own disabilities. Some are just more visible than others.
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GeorgeStGeorge
No, it's actually because I was giving a second-hand account. I had heard that the "r-word" was used. I don't like the President enough to watch him on Leno.
George
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oenophile
I like and support the President on most of his agenda. Still, I think the use of even "special olympics" to cast comical aspersions of his lack of bowling skills was insensitive, especially since he is claiming to be President of all the people.
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nandon
biggest problem for me is that now im going to want to say my brother is "intellectually challenged" when he starts acting like an idiot...
so the term intellectually challenged is now going to immediately make me think of the "r-word" and im going to think it's funny.
Just like with the n-word. When I was a kid, it was just a curse word, you didn't say it, it wasn't a big deal if someone did, but it wasn't right.
NOW though, if you say the n-word everyone freaks not because they are more sensitive but because they think they are supposed to freak.
But all this being said, i'll never call an intellectually challenged person the r-word, but i will use it jokingly with my inner circle of friends. same with the n-word, or any other racial slur, mexican, south american, puerto rican, cuban, african, european, canadian, pacific islander, asian or any other race... When you are my friend, it's kinda part of the package, we make fun of our differences in a light hearted way.
but only with my inner circle i'd like to make that clear...
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Rejoice
someone said they get "so tired of the words used to label people."
Words are a communication tool used to describe a situation, good, bad, or indifferent. It is ithe individual who turns a word into a lable.
There are many who are labeled, "brilliant" and no one seems to mind that one. However, there are brilliant criminals out there that are downright scary.
I have a "retarded" sister. Retarded was always an accurate description; "developmentally delayed," "special" or whatever the politically correct crowd wants to use the next time around does not change her situation.
I'm not an Obama fan, but I think Obama was simply using self-depracating humor. We have all gotten so touchy in this culture.
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doojable
I said that I get tired of the labels.
You say you have a "retarded" sister. Have you looked in her eyes and seen the person inside?... the person that doesn't get noticed because she's different? The person that gets overlooked and dismissed?
"Quit acting so retarded!"
Are you really going to try and tell me that the sentence above is meant as anything else but an insult?
And you're right - the label won't change her situation - but the label would hurt her if she were to hear it spoken in that fashion.
Does "the label" totally describe her? Her abilities? Her aspirations? Or does that label put limitations on her and those that deal with her.
Frankly, I agree that Obama was engaging in some self-deprecating humor. My issue isn't with Obama. I just happen to dislike the habit of using labels to limit and dismiss people. The word "retard" does this.
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Shellon
Agreed, using any of these is rude, inconsiderate, unkind, unnecessary, thoughtless whether one is the President of the United States of America or you and me.
The english language is full and colorful enough for us to address one another with ones that are not even suggestively insulting.
Same with "dude" used by the teenagers, mostly, to put emphasis on whatever it is they're expressing. Meant to insult, no. Irritating, yes.
"That's so Gay" is yet another I hear from kids alot which is just ridiculious. "This homework is so gay". What the heck is that? "This homework is colorful"? or maybe "This homework is homosexual"
Either way it's just a term, to them, meant to express and I get that. But the gay student next to them might not and s/he should be considered.
I don't see anything wrong with using decent, pleasant conversation when we address each other or communicate and it should be taught our children, rather than the massive breakdown of the language and it's poor usage.
I understand, each generation has their trends and everyone easily picks up words that communicate.
But if it's demeaning to another, insulting, thoughtless, etc., then it's wrong.
I used the word retarded once. We had an aunt who was......well, different. I didn't know she was just.......welll, different. I asked one of my brothers if she was retarded, to which he replied " Sis, you with your degrees and talent are more retarded that Aunt Lola"
I got it.
It's a respect for others thing, a 'kind to your fellow human' thing and should be unacceptable.
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Mister P-Mosh
I was specifically referring to children, although I may not have explained that well. You don't hear adults going around calling each other "retards" very often. It's usually children who throw around insults like that. Adults generally have more empathy than children, but you know as well as anyone that even many adults aren't capable of empathy. That's where things like racism, sexism, jingoism, homophobia and xenophobia come from too.
Which is why I specifically stated "inferior in some way", rather than as a whole. You are correct that others are superior to all of us in many ways, including those with disabilities. However, disabilities are quietly looked down upon in our society. We "feel sorry" for people, which for some is empathy and for others is a feeling of superiority. I'm not really describing how I feel, but how I see society in general.
Or to look at it another way, let's take this as a scenario -- if a 25 year old woman with Down's Syndrome was going to get married to a 40 year old man who didn't have any mental disabilities, how would you feel about that? If you wouldn't be totally supportive of it, why is that? What gives us the right to judge a consenting adult's relationship? If we question whether or not a person with Down's syndrome can consent or not, we are proving that we believe ourselves to be superior to them in some way.
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mstar1
It would depend alot upon the indivduals, my relationship to them, and my perception of their relationship whether I was supportive or not. I would not automatically be for or against but it would depend on who they really were before I could realize what my feelings about there individual situation would be---and then I'd tell them given the opportunity...If I dont know them then its really not my business to judge--just to wish them well
....Ive been asked to be in a wedding party, ( best man, performing the service etc) several times.
Ive been to a few that I wouldnt give my "blessing' and consent to as part of the wedding to because knowing the individuals I didnt think they were right for each other and would have problems that they couldnt foresee..These for the most part were average everyday people. Most people I'll support unless its apparent they are headed for severe rocky shoals orone partner is obviously manipulating the other
I was involved in a wedding a few years ago where one of the parties was completely paralyzed and terminally ill BUT the love between the two was genuine and deep--I had no problem with being in that wedding
Nothing as far as I know...If Im involved somehow I'll take a more active interest and develop and offer an opinion based on who those individuals are--other than that its between those two.
It hasnt been that long since there were laws against inter racial marriages, now there is the big hullaballoo about gays getting married
...As i said its not mine to judge personal matters of the heart between two people--nor is it really anybodies. I know people that are "disabled" that are married that do just fine
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geisha779
Someone may have already pointed this out. . . sorry if it is superfluous, but in Massachusetts the DMR is the Department of Mental Retardation. A part of Health and Human Services. . I imagine it is like that in other states as well.
The term itself is descriptive and has been used in behavior plans and such to indicate mild, moderate, or severe mental retardation.
Has this changed?
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Bolshevik
It was insensitive, maybe he won't return to a relaxed environment like Leno again . . .
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