I think you've raised an excellent point - the fear used to keep members from questioning twi teachings. It's an important one especially for anyone wrestling with old twi doctrines and trying to decide which ones are "accurate" and which ones to toss out (I say begin by learning how documents in the bible became scripture in the first place, who wrote them and when, etc. but that's another topic).
IMO opinion, the problem persists even post-twi. Many twi splinter groups seem to miss this point entirely because they continue to propound twi teachings.
Anyhow, thanks for the effort you put into describing this process of fear motivation used to get people to stick with twi's interpretation of the bible. Nothing like using the boogy man to make people afraid and keep 'em in line. It's an old method used by plenty of religions and groups around the world but becoming aware of it is the first step up to enlightenment, in my view.
ah, yes, many baby-boomers have succombed to lax thinking, giving a squadron of spurts an access, a host. These spurts are then able to go on Way runs, or sneak into the VPW PW Auditorium, holding a bible, and wearing, of all things . . . blue jeans!!
. . .
I think what's more important is not what is written, but how "believers" converse. They just sit there and make stuff up. So and so is possessed, it's so obvious . . . I can't explain that, therefore, spurts are involved . . . I don't feel I have the upper hand in this situation, so I'll make up a new doctrine in my head . . .
There were some verses on Jesus talking about how the spurts come back to an uncleaned home. Other verses on casting out spurts. This wasn't vpw's idea. He just sold the idea which assumed that this is all possible and that you and I can do it too, (but not as good as vpw.)
This is not outside of the realm of most of what passes for Christian teaching. The idea that we are continually under attack by the adversary for believing that Jesus is the Christ is taught in most evangelical/fundamentalist groups. Then you have the additional burden as a TWI believer that you are a special target of the adversary because of your more highly evolved doctrine.
I happen to believe this tactic was used to keep people from seeing a true cause and effect of the doctrine.
This is not outside of the realm of most of what passes for Christian teaching. The idea that we are continually under attack by the adversary for believing that Jesus is the Christ is taught in most evangelical/fundamentalist groups. Then you have the additional burden as a TWI believer that you are a special target of the adversary because of your more highly evolved doctrine.
I happen to believe this tactic was used to keep people from seeing a true cause and effect of the doctrine.
True, but in TWI, the idea was that it was imperative to make continual efforts to self delude yourself into accepting Way doctrine and rejecting all else ("En Guard!"-----DWA class) and you were to exercise a practice that helps turn off your critical thinking functions. (S.I.T. much-----PFAL classes I,II,III)
some argue prayer and bible reading serve that function of diverting one's thoughts
Building ships in bottles can serve the function of diverting one's thoughts, also, but none of these three examples actually causes the brain to shut down the part of itself that controls critical thinking in the same way as has been scientifically demonstrated with speaking in tongues. Now consider the effects of feeding the mind irrational thoughts while it's in a somewhat defenseless state.
When you speak in tongues, the portion of your brain that governs your "sense of self" is measurably affected.
That does not appear to happen in these other circumstances you have cited.
We have done other threads about speaking in tongues.
If one desires to pursue that angle, it might be best to refer to those threads.
My inclusion of it in this discussion is to simply show that it played a role in this whole process of permeating our thinking with fear consciousness. In other words, we were told that without it, our spiritual defenses would be lacking.
This is not outside of the realm of most of what passes for Christian teaching. The idea that we are continually under attack by the adversary for believing that Jesus is the Christ is taught in most evangelical/fundamentalist groups.
I don't agree with this at all. . . other than perhaps TBN and Benny Hinn's ilk. . . Satan is mention something like 30 times in the NT. . . less in the OT. . . I think?. . . .People do not focus on this stuff. . . Many of these groups are becoming far more service oriented. . . . That seems like a broad generalization. If anything, they lay their trials at God's feet. Most evangelical groups believe strongly in the sovereignty of God. They believe Satan has to seek permission. . . so to speak. All is subject to God's will. . . .
How much more clear can "Resist the devil and he will flee" be. . . . ? How did we miss that in TWI. . . he was under every dust bunny and inside every book jacket. BOO!!
How much more clear can "Resist the devil and he will flee" be. . . . ? How did we miss that in TWI. . .
I'm not so sure we completely missed it but the process of resistance took on the stature of an almost unobtainable goal. Consider, for one example, the inordinate importance placed on retemories. En Guard!
When you speak in tongues, the portion of your brain that governs your "sense of self" is measurably affected.
That does not appear to happen in these other circumstances you have cited.
We have done other threads about speaking in tongues.
If one desires to pursue that angle, it might be best to refer to those threads.
My inclusion of it in this discussion is to simply show that it played a role in this whole process of permeating our thinking with fear consciousness. In other words, we were told that without it, our spiritual defenses would be lacking.
It permeating people's thinking because they were sloppy, bottom line.
Studies on SIT are done all the time. You're simply not using your head.
Building ships in bottles can serve the function of diverting one's thoughts, also, but none of these three examples actually causes the brain to shut down the part of itself that controls critical thinking in the same way as has been scientifically demonstrated with speaking in tongues. Now consider the effects of feeding the mind irrational thoughts while it's in a somewhat defenseless state.
I was talking about prayer and religious activity, not hobbies.
I don't remember SIT and being fed any info simultaneously, so any affect was simply absent mindedness. Information was fed to us at different times, after such things as, singing.
what convinced you it was another language? what convinced you it was supernatural? what convinced you it was worthwhile?
The problems happened before SIT. When SIT, your brain is just in "sleep mode" so to speak.
Well, as I said before, this thread is really about the element of fear that is woven throughout TWI classes, not about SIT. SIT was just one contributing component. (IMO) But, the "ribbon of fear" is presented as early as session 7, even before the infamous sessions 11 & 12, where SIT was presented.
Well, as I said before, this thread is really about the element of fear that is woven throughout TWI classes, not about SIT. SIT was just one contributing component. (IMO) But, the "ribbon of fear" is presented as early as session 7, even before the infamous sessions 11 & 12, where SIT was presented.
well the whole class was dull, I was afraid I'd die of boredom.
I'm not so sure we completely missed it but the process of resistance took on the stature of an almost unobtainable goal. Consider, for one example, the inordinate importance placed on retemories. En Guard!
I really think you make sense. What happens when such an imperative(imagined) life and death goal is unreachable? Every single day? Anxiety, fear, dread, obsession. . . these are all things that can happen. No peace.
In a subtle way it is a relinquishing of coping skills. When bad things happened. . . we didn't deal with them in a normal fashion, there was the added burden of self-blame and shame for our lack of believing.
Very fear based . . .It was the fear in the heart and life of that mother!! Most of us didn't have that kind of fear until we took the class. . . . and became so enlightened.
The class was titled "Power for Abundant Living", playing on people's natural love and desire for power. If there was fear, it was of losing this power, which one never had to begin with.
The class was titled "Power for Abundant Living", playing on people's natural love and desire for power. If there was fear, it was of losing this power, which one never had to begin with.
Session seven
Listening with a porpoise
1. What are the five steps the serpent used to deceive Eve?
ANSWER
Step #1
He got Eve to QUESTION the integrity of "The Word".
etc., etc.
(Be careful---this could happen to you.)
2. Who has power and authority over the world today?
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penworks
I think you've raised an excellent point - the fear used to keep members from questioning twi teachings. It's an important one especially for anyone wrestling with old twi doctrines and trying to decide which ones are "accurate" and which ones to toss out (I say begin by learning how documents in the bible became scripture in the first place, who wrote them and when, etc. but that's another topic).
IMO opinion, the problem persists even post-twi. Many twi splinter groups seem to miss this point entirely because they continue to propound twi teachings.
Anyhow, thanks for the effort you put into describing this process of fear motivation used to get people to stick with twi's interpretation of the bible. Nothing like using the boogy man to make people afraid and keep 'em in line. It's an old method used by plenty of religions and groups around the world but becoming aware of it is the first step up to enlightenment, in my view.
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Bolshevik
ah, yes, many baby-boomers have succombed to lax thinking, giving a squadron of spurts an access, a host. These spurts are then able to go on Way runs, or sneak into the VPW PW Auditorium, holding a bible, and wearing, of all things . . . blue jeans!!
. . .
I think what's more important is not what is written, but how "believers" converse. They just sit there and make stuff up. So and so is possessed, it's so obvious . . . I can't explain that, therefore, spurts are involved . . . I don't feel I have the upper hand in this situation, so I'll make up a new doctrine in my head . . .
There were some verses on Jesus talking about how the spurts come back to an uncleaned home. Other verses on casting out spurts. This wasn't vpw's idea. He just sold the idea which assumed that this is all possible and that you and I can do it too, (but not as good as vpw.)
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Tzaia
This is not outside of the realm of most of what passes for Christian teaching. The idea that we are continually under attack by the adversary for believing that Jesus is the Christ is taught in most evangelical/fundamentalist groups. Then you have the additional burden as a TWI believer that you are a special target of the adversary because of your more highly evolved doctrine.
I happen to believe this tactic was used to keep people from seeing a true cause and effect of the doctrine.
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waysider
True, but in TWI, the idea was that it was imperative to make continual efforts to self delude yourself into accepting Way doctrine and rejecting all else ("En Guard!"-----DWA class) and you were to exercise a practice that helps turn off your critical thinking functions. (S.I.T. much-----PFAL classes I,II,III)
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Bolshevik
some argue prayer and bible reading serve that function of diverting one's thoughts
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waysider
Building ships in bottles can serve the function of diverting one's thoughts, also, but none of these three examples actually causes the brain to shut down the part of itself that controls critical thinking in the same way as has been scientifically demonstrated with speaking in tongues. Now consider the effects of feeding the mind irrational thoughts while it's in a somewhat defenseless state.
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Bolshevik
shuts part of the brain down? or simply doesn't use it? those studies both support and degate arguments for SIT, depending on what your stance is.
jobs, classrooms, television, military . . . this happens everywhere.
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waysider
It's not the same thing that happens when you speak in tongues.
http://www.religionandspirituality.com/view/post/11622754423000/Scientists_analyze_Pentecostals_brainwaves/
When you speak in tongues, the portion of your brain that governs your "sense of self" is measurably affected.
That does not appear to happen in these other circumstances you have cited.
We have done other threads about speaking in tongues.
If one desires to pursue that angle, it might be best to refer to those threads.
My inclusion of it in this discussion is to simply show that it played a role in this whole process of permeating our thinking with fear consciousness. In other words, we were told that without it, our spiritual defenses would be lacking.
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geisha779
I don't agree with this at all. . . other than perhaps TBN and Benny Hinn's ilk. . . Satan is mention something like 30 times in the NT. . . less in the OT. . . I think?. . . .People do not focus on this stuff. . . Many of these groups are becoming far more service oriented. . . . That seems like a broad generalization. If anything, they lay their trials at God's feet. Most evangelical groups believe strongly in the sovereignty of God. They believe Satan has to seek permission. . . so to speak. All is subject to God's will. . . .
How much more clear can "Resist the devil and he will flee" be. . . . ? How did we miss that in TWI. . . he was under every dust bunny and inside every book jacket. BOO!!
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waysider
I'm not so sure we completely missed it but the process of resistance took on the stature of an almost unobtainable goal. Consider, for one example, the inordinate importance placed on retemories. En Guard!
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Bolshevik
It permeating people's thinking because they were sloppy, bottom line.
Studies on SIT are done all the time. You're simply not using your head.
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waysider
I don't understand your meaning.
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Bolshevik
I was talking about prayer and religious activity, not hobbies.
I don't remember SIT and being fed any info simultaneously, so any affect was simply absent mindedness. Information was fed to us at different times, after such things as, singing.
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Bolshevik
what convinced you it was another language? what convinced you it was supernatural? what convinced you it was worthwhile?
The problems happened before SIT. When SIT, your brain is just in "sleep mode" so to speak.
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waysider
Well, as I said before, this thread is really about the element of fear that is woven throughout TWI classes, not about SIT. SIT was just one contributing component. (IMO) But, the "ribbon of fear" is presented as early as session 7, even before the infamous sessions 11 & 12, where SIT was presented.
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Ham
When I read the title of the thread.. to me it sounded like "yellow tape" of fear..
the little easily surmountable barrier to the scene of the crime..
actually.. isn't that what loy, donna and others put around scenes of "disaster"?
their lack of believing allowed their kid to die.. or be maimed.. etc. etc. ?
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Bolshevik
well the whole class was dull, I was afraid I'd die of boredom.
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geisha779
I really think you make sense. What happens when such an imperative(imagined) life and death goal is unreachable? Every single day? Anxiety, fear, dread, obsession. . . these are all things that can happen. No peace.
In a subtle way it is a relinquishing of coping skills. When bad things happened. . . we didn't deal with them in a normal fashion, there was the added burden of self-blame and shame for our lack of believing.
Very fear based . . .It was the fear in the heart and life of that mother!! Most of us didn't have that kind of fear until we took the class. . . . and became so enlightened.
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Bolshevik
The class was titled "Power for Abundant Living", playing on people's natural love and desire for power. If there was fear, it was of losing this power, which one never had to begin with.
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waysider
Session seven
Listening with a porpoise
1. What are the five steps the serpent used to deceive Eve?
ANSWER
Step #1
He got Eve to QUESTION the integrity of "The Word".
etc., etc.
(Be careful---this could happen to you.)
2. Who has power and authority over the world today?
ANSWER
Satan
3. Where do sickness and death come from?
ANSWER
Satan
yada, yada, yada----
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Tzaia
Which makes them different than standard evangelical/fundamentalist due to the becoming part.
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taxicab
How come we couldn't take notes? Perhaps if we wrote down our questions we would have realized how ridiculous it all was.
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waysider
Excellent point, TC
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WordWolf
When I took it, it was recommended we don't take notes, but that was not mandatory.
The idea was that whoever thought that rule up was incapable of focusing on a class
while taking notes. Some of us, however, were excellent at doing that- and retained
material BETTER if we took notes.
At the end of the first segment, someone recommended I take my notes directly into
the syllabus rather than in a separate book. This made sense- I was juggling a syllabus,
Bible and a notebook. Taking notes into the syllabus meant I could put down the notebook.
Writing down questions was something else-I didn't have any of those written down.
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