With all that education, he had the ticket to a normal life. Having a Dr. in education guarantees you a decent job AT LEAST as a teacher. The grips of indoctrination must have been weak too, since he was so well educated. Didn't Wierwille call him spineless or some such in poap? Maybe he was right. The guy just didn't have the guts to face the truth and break away.
I don't think that was entirely it.. with money for nuttin and chicks for free.. I mean, how does one turn down that kind of *offer*?
I think the vicster was merely calling the kettle black.. vic was as much if not more the spineless coward.. despite his *great* public persona, I would call him a feeble hearted bastard. Couldn't turn down the *perks* the position had to offer..
my opinion.. son could never live up to what pa thought the man pa ought to be..
With all that education, he had the ticket to a normal life. Having a Dr. in education guarantees you a decent job AT LEAST as a teacher. The grips of indoctrination must have been weak too, since he was so well educated. Didn't Wierwille call him spineless or some such in poap? Maybe he was right. The guy just didn't have the guts to face the truth and break away.
What proof do you have that vpw called him ANYTHING in POP?
Other than geer saying "vpw told me this", what evidence do you have that vpw said ANY of it?
We have proof vpw was upset, and that he went to cg, but no proof of any specifics about his son.
(We heard from someone else who interacted personally with vpw during that timeframe but was not in
I don't think that was entirely it.. with money for nuttin and chicks for free.. I mean, how does one turn down that kind of *offer*?
Prior to returning to The Way, Donald was a school principle in Wisconsin and I believe he had a seat on the Board of Education. VPW wanted him to come and be the Dean of the Way C of E. Somewhere I heard that dad offered to pay for son to get his doctorate if he came on staff. I'm not sure if that's true and I can't remember where I heard it. Of course, later he replaced Ermal Owens as Vice President and the rest is history.
True.. I'm just thinking, where is the motivation? I believe back in "the day".. "trustees" along with an adoring audience, had motorcoach "privileges".. and more. "Love offerings" above and beyond "abundant sharing" from the "household"..
he WAS old enough, and out of the system long enough to figure out pa's carryings on were not exactly the standards of a "great manogawd".. you would think at least.
who knows.. maybe at first he thought he could change things. From what I understand, he for the most part succumbed.
It is horrifying to think, someone would spend years building professional relationships and a career, to abandon it to go back to da way. Or to drop everything to go back staff on an offshoot. Find it hard, bub? Think three or four years of "professional development" should give you the respect and employment that fifteen years on staff by-passed? I guess it is "easier".. far less work, far less personal development, far less accountability. You've practically got a captive audience.. I suppose there is a certain amount of "security" in it.
Far less of a "frightening" "uncontrolled" situation. Wayfers for the most part were taught they had the power to control everything.. money, the weather, health..
Just to me.. its almost the same thing as quitting one's career in finance, and going back to live with dad and mom..
Erkjohn, so you know, you are not the "bub" I am referring to.
I was thinking about one of the classes that was offered at Emporia when I was in the corps. I'm assuming the college division was involved in the class as well. "Natural Family Planning". Now why in the world did we pay people to come in and teach that class when 1. we practiced "real birth control" and 2. we weren't roman catholic and 3. well, we all know what #3 is.
Other non-accredited classes include............. Martin Lucifer King, the myth of the six million, babylon mystery religion, the marxist minstrels, burn the chaff. yeah, no way was emporia going to become oral roberts university or brigham young university. poor disappointed wierwille's.
Other non-accredited classes include............. Martin Lucifer King, the myth of the six million, babylon mystery religion, the marxist minstrels, burn the chaff.
he WAS old enough, and out of the system long enough to figure out pa's carryings on were not exactly the standards of a "great manogawd".. you would think at least.
It is horrifying to think, someone would spend years building professional relationships and a career, to abandon it to go back to da way. Or to drop everything to go back staff on an offshoot.
Erkjohn, so you know, you are not the "bub" I am referring to.
:)
I couldn't figure out how to do the "multiQuote" function so, yeah. I think you are spot on with saying he was well aware of "Pa's carryings on". I'm not so sure he was interested in changing things with the exception of (at first) wanting to instill some value for secular education.
I also strongly agree with what you say about it being, "horrifying...etc". I would just add the word "sad". In Don Wierwille's case, he was without question a skilled educator with a passion for the field. He would have had a great career and perhaps made a big difference for a lot of people but he poured it into TWI.
Also, I did not think I was the "bub" you were referring to but I appreciate your clarification nonetheless.
I was thinking about one of the classes that was offered at Emporia when I was in the corps. I'm assuming the college division was involved in the class as well. "Natural Family Planning". Now why in the world did we pay people to come in and teach that class when 1. we practiced "real birth control" and 2. we weren't roman catholic and 3. well, we all know what #3 is.
Other non-accredited classes include............. Martin Lucifer King, the myth of the six million, babylon mystery religion, the marxist minstrels, burn the chaff. yeah, no way was emporia going to become oral roberts university or brigham young university. poor disappointed wierwille's.
These weren't classes at Emporia when I was there. They made an entire class out of "Myth of the Six Million?" That's awful!! No, they taught stuff like, you know, the PFAL class and all those "collateral" classes ("Renewed Mind", "Dealing with the Adverssary") And they threw in "Old Testament and New Testment History". Stuff like that. Not that impressive, really, but not as sick as something like, "Martin Lucifer King".
With the College Division thing, you were supposed to get your general educational credits at an accredited secular college and then return for a final year. Very few actually did that. Most would just do the one year program and then do something else like go to a real college or go WOW. They you had people like me who enjoyed pain so much that they went on to college, got a degree, and then entered the Way Corps.
Okay, maybe they weren't exactly classes if you think of a class that's 3 credits and you take it for a semester. These were teachings (classes) that people who weren't necessarily involved in TWI, would come in and teach to the Corps. I'm not being sarcastic, Martin Lucifer King, yeah that's exactly what was being taught from the bully pulpit. The Marxist Minstrels, about the Beatles. Martindale was thrilled when John Lennon was killed. His exact words were that the adversary was done with Lennon and that's why he was dead. That's where people's hard earned money, their ABS was going. Unfortunately, I'm not being sarcastic and I'm ashamed that I just sat there. Maybe I should have just yelled out, YOU LIE!!!
Okay, maybe they weren't exactly classes if you think of a class that's 3 credits and you take it for a semester. These were teachings (classes) that people who weren't necessarily involved in TWI, would come in and teach to the Corps. I'm not being sarcastic, Martin Lucifer King, yeah that's exactly what was being taught from the bully pulpit. The Marxist Minstrels, about the Beatles. Martindale was thrilled when John Lennon was killed. His exact words were that the adversary was done with Lennon and that's why he was dead. That's where people's hard earned money, their ABS was going. Unfortunately, I'm not being sarcastic and I'm ashamed that I just sat there. Maybe I should have just yelled out, YOU LIE!!!
Okay, maybe they weren't exactly classes if you think of a class that's 3 credits and you take it for a semester. These were teachings (classes) that people who weren't necessarily involved in TWI, would come in and teach to the Corps. I'm not being sarcastic, Martin Lucifer King, yeah that's exactly what was being taught from the bully pulpit. The Marxist Minstrels, about the Beatles. Martindale was thrilled when John Lennon was killed. His exact words were that the adversary was done with Lennon and that's why he was dead. That's where people's hard earned money, their ABS was going. Unfortunately, I'm not being sarcastic and I'm ashamed that I just sat there. Maybe I should have just yelled out, YOU LIE!!!
Ah yes. I remember hearing LCM's "great insight" into the death of John Lennon. Some of his other "insights" were that Muhammad Ali was born of the seed of the serpent and it was actually a devil spirit that ko'd Sonny Liston in Ali's first title fight (Cassius Clay at the time. Bill Russell (the great NBA star) was possessed and that's how he rose to great basketball stardom. I'm sure he had plenty to say about Michael Jordan but I was gone by then. In contrast, Adolf Hitler was brilliant. Seriously, he said that at an Advanced Class. I think it was AC '81 or '83. That even made me take a double-take at the time. I know what you mean about sitting there and doing nothing. Of course, if we had said something we would have just been escorted out of the building and branded "possessed". But so what? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. If we left The Way we would be "greasespots".
I think I was told that guys like MLK, JFK etc had a "Martyrdom complex", either they or the Adversary had it set up.
Right. Men that really did make a difference and stood for something. Those "lightweights" were nothing compared to us who could set up chairs and cut grass in a straighter row that any other organization in the world.
Oh geez, you guys are making me sorry that I threw all my "Corps notes" away. Any other great classes, teachings, I'm forgetting about?
Craig was in hog heaven when John Lennon died. Craig, Victor, couldn't stand anyone that was successful. Craig did have a favorite Beatle, anyone want to guess which one?
Good guess Waysider but no, Craig's favorite was one of the 4 beatles, John, Paul, Ringo and George.
Try again
Well, it couldn't be Paul because he sang "When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me." (Obviously about debuhl spurt visitation.) And it couldn't be George because, even though he sang about
, he was into Eastern Religion and obviously a "seed boy". Soooooo, I'll go with Ringo because he he sang about a love affair with a young girl who was only
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taxicab
In Emporia Kansas Wierwille Library was used quite extensively even though there weren't any books in it. I spent many days and nights listening to the droning from the Bully Pulpit from "Top Floor Wi
Twinky
At the time Emporia was being prepared for auction, the librarian (Gayle??) went from Ohio to view the library and to select any books that she wanted for the HQ library. These were crated up for tra
taxicab
Sorry about that. My memory failed me, it was called Anderson Library. I was there in the 8th. Corps around 77-79 ish. From what I remember, the books that were in the library were left there from t
Bolshevik
like you said, all solutions take time.
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Bishop
did i?
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Ham
I don't think that was entirely it.. with money for nuttin and chicks for free.. I mean, how does one turn down that kind of *offer*?
I think the vicster was merely calling the kettle black.. vic was as much if not more the spineless coward.. despite his *great* public persona, I would call him a feeble hearted bastard. Couldn't turn down the *perks* the position had to offer..
my opinion.. son could never live up to what pa thought the man pa ought to be..
make sense? Or am I just rambling..
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WordWolf
What proof do you have that vpw called him ANYTHING in POP?
Other than geer saying "vpw told me this", what evidence do you have that vpw said ANY of it?
We have proof vpw was upset, and that he went to cg, but no proof of any specifics about his son.
(We heard from someone else who interacted personally with vpw during that timeframe but was not in
the conversations between vpw and cg.)
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Bishop
You're right, no way to know. IMHO Chris handled that terribly no matter what VP said . . .
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Broken Arrow
Prior to returning to The Way, Donald was a school principle in Wisconsin and I believe he had a seat on the Board of Education. VPW wanted him to come and be the Dean of the Way C of E. Somewhere I heard that dad offered to pay for son to get his doctorate if he came on staff. I'm not sure if that's true and I can't remember where I heard it. Of course, later he replaced Ermal Owens as Vice President and the rest is history.
Edited by erkjohnLink to comment
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Ham
True.. I'm just thinking, where is the motivation? I believe back in "the day".. "trustees" along with an adoring audience, had motorcoach "privileges".. and more. "Love offerings" above and beyond "abundant sharing" from the "household"..
he WAS old enough, and out of the system long enough to figure out pa's carryings on were not exactly the standards of a "great manogawd".. you would think at least.
who knows.. maybe at first he thought he could change things. From what I understand, he for the most part succumbed.
It is horrifying to think, someone would spend years building professional relationships and a career, to abandon it to go back to da way. Or to drop everything to go back staff on an offshoot. Find it hard, bub? Think three or four years of "professional development" should give you the respect and employment that fifteen years on staff by-passed? I guess it is "easier".. far less work, far less personal development, far less accountability. You've practically got a captive audience.. I suppose there is a certain amount of "security" in it.
Far less of a "frightening" "uncontrolled" situation. Wayfers for the most part were taught they had the power to control everything.. money, the weather, health..
Just to me.. its almost the same thing as quitting one's career in finance, and going back to live with dad and mom..
Erkjohn, so you know, you are not the "bub" I am referring to.
:)
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taxicab
I was thinking about one of the classes that was offered at Emporia when I was in the corps. I'm assuming the college division was involved in the class as well. "Natural Family Planning". Now why in the world did we pay people to come in and teach that class when 1. we practiced "real birth control" and 2. we weren't roman catholic and 3. well, we all know what #3 is.
Other non-accredited classes include............. Martin Lucifer King, the myth of the six million, babylon mystery religion, the marxist minstrels, burn the chaff. yeah, no way was emporia going to become oral roberts university or brigham young university. poor disappointed wierwille's.
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waysider
I really, really hope you're being sarcastic.
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Bishop
These topics are so random and off the wall . . . . .
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Ham
hmm. "where's the library"..
reminds me of what in my first real hourly job.. that's what they called the bathroom. Had lots of books for reading, during longer visits of sorts..
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waysider
I won't disagree with you on that.
Still, I am genuinely interested in knowing if there were classes that focused on these (cough) "subjects".
I suppose I could ask a family member who went to WC/E but he doesn't talk much about it anymore.
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Broken Arrow
I couldn't figure out how to do the "multiQuote" function so, yeah. I think you are spot on with saying he was well aware of "Pa's carryings on". I'm not so sure he was interested in changing things with the exception of (at first) wanting to instill some value for secular education.
I also strongly agree with what you say about it being, "horrifying...etc". I would just add the word "sad". In Don Wierwille's case, he was without question a skilled educator with a passion for the field. He would have had a great career and perhaps made a big difference for a lot of people but he poured it into TWI.
Also, I did not think I was the "bub" you were referring to but I appreciate your clarification nonetheless.
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Broken Arrow
These weren't classes at Emporia when I was there. They made an entire class out of "Myth of the Six Million?" That's awful!! No, they taught stuff like, you know, the PFAL class and all those "collateral" classes ("Renewed Mind", "Dealing with the Adverssary") And they threw in "Old Testament and New Testment History". Stuff like that. Not that impressive, really, but not as sick as something like, "Martin Lucifer King".
With the College Division thing, you were supposed to get your general educational credits at an accredited secular college and then return for a final year. Very few actually did that. Most would just do the one year program and then do something else like go to a real college or go WOW. They you had people like me who enjoyed pain so much that they went on to college, got a degree, and then entered the Way Corps.
Edited by erkjohnLink to comment
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taxicab
Okay, maybe they weren't exactly classes if you think of a class that's 3 credits and you take it for a semester. These were teachings (classes) that people who weren't necessarily involved in TWI, would come in and teach to the Corps. I'm not being sarcastic, Martin Lucifer King, yeah that's exactly what was being taught from the bully pulpit. The Marxist Minstrels, about the Beatles. Martindale was thrilled when John Lennon was killed. His exact words were that the adversary was done with Lennon and that's why he was dead. That's where people's hard earned money, their ABS was going. Unfortunately, I'm not being sarcastic and I'm ashamed that I just sat there. Maybe I should have just yelled out, YOU LIE!!!
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Bolshevik
I think I was told that guys like MLK, JFK etc had a "Martyrdom complex", either they or the Adversary had it set up.
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waysider
I wish I had been around for that stuff.
It would have made leaving soooooooo much easier.
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Broken Arrow
And you would have been sooooo much more bored!
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Broken Arrow
Ah yes. I remember hearing LCM's "great insight" into the death of John Lennon. Some of his other "insights" were that Muhammad Ali was born of the seed of the serpent and it was actually a devil spirit that ko'd Sonny Liston in Ali's first title fight (Cassius Clay at the time. Bill Russell (the great NBA star) was possessed and that's how he rose to great basketball stardom. I'm sure he had plenty to say about Michael Jordan but I was gone by then. In contrast, Adolf Hitler was brilliant. Seriously, he said that at an Advanced Class. I think it was AC '81 or '83. That even made me take a double-take at the time. I know what you mean about sitting there and doing nothing. Of course, if we had said something we would have just been escorted out of the building and branded "possessed". But so what? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. If we left The Way we would be "greasespots".
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Broken Arrow
Right. Men that really did make a difference and stood for something. Those "lightweights" were nothing compared to us who could set up chairs and cut grass in a straighter row that any other organization in the world.
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taxicab
Oh geez, you guys are making me sorry that I threw all my "Corps notes" away. Any other great classes, teachings, I'm forgetting about?
Craig was in hog heaven when John Lennon died. Craig, Victor, couldn't stand anyone that was successful. Craig did have a favorite Beatle, anyone want to guess which one?
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waysider
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taxicab
Good guess Waysider but no, Craig's favorite was one of the 4 beatles, John, Paul, Ringo and George.
Try again
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waysider
Well, it couldn't be Paul because he sang "When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me." (Obviously about debuhl spurt visitation.) And it couldn't be George because, even though he sang about
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