The Myth of the Six Million was a book on the Way Corps recommended reading list. Also commonly taught was that the diary of Anne Frank was a forgery. Also, the book The Thrteenth Tribe was on that recommended reading list. If you're not familiar with that book, its conclusions were that the modern Jewish community were more accurately descendants of the Khazar empire that occupied the Middle East around 1000AD and throughout the time of the Crusades, and as an empire adopted the Jewish religion. So the accusation of that book was that the bloodline was not literally pure from Abraham, but an adopted one.
Of course public knowledge of these things would draw great opposition from the Semitic community and a direct label of Anti-Semitism. And I'm sure in a certain sense that label is warranted.
My personal take on it was that it was more that Dr. VPW was kind of a "conspiracy theory" nut in many ways than it was an actual hate for Jewish descendants. He also was a fan of teachings on the "Illuminati". I don't think that current or ex followers of the Way largely have an attitude of hate or distaste against Jews. More of an elitist mentality overall.
According to Wierwille, God gave up on the Jews and made us (Wayfers) the chosen people. Is that anti-Semitism? I like to think it is more like a misguided, delusional form of elitism.
According to Wierwille, God gave up on the Jews and made us (Wayfers) the chosen people. Is that anti-Semitism? I like to think it is more like a misguided, delusional form of elitism.
That is replacement theology.
Replacement Theology
One of the greatest misunderstandings of the Church/Israel relationship is called "Replacement Theology". This theology teaches that the Church has been given the
promises made to Israel, because of Israel's unbelief and rejection of the Messiah. Thus these theologians teach that the Church has replaced Israel and the Jews have no future in
Elohim’s plan. This theology guises itself under a number of names: "Dominion Theology"; "Kingdom Now Theology"; "Covenant Theology"; and "Reconstructionalist Theology". This theology is held to by Postmillenialists, amillinialists and some Premillinialists.
One of the major problems with replacement theology is that it falsely leaves Elohim guilty of not keeping his promises to literal Israel to whom they pertain (Rom. 9:3-4). These promises include:
* PROMISE OF LAND (Gen. 12:7; 13:15-16; 17:7-8).
* PROMISE TO REGATHER ISRAEL AND RESTORE THE KINGDOM OF
ISRAEL WITH MESSIAH AS KING. (Deut. 30:1-5; Is. 9:6-7; 11:1-16; Jer. 23:5-6; see also: Deut 28:1-14; 2Sam. 7:4-14; 1Chron. 17; Ps. 89; Is. 2:1-4; 14:1; 25:1-27:13; 56:1-18; 60:1-22; 62:1-12; 65:17-25; 66:7-9; Jer. 16:14-15; 30:1-33:26; Ezkl. 33:1-39:29; 40:1-48:35; Hosea 11:1-14:9; Joel 2:18-3:21; Amos 9:11-15; Micah 4:1-8ff; 7:11-20; Zeph. 3:9-20; Hag. 2:20-23; Zech. 14; Dan. 2:44.)
One of the key points of Replacement theology is its false claim that Elohim has rejected Israel. The Scriptures, however, are very plain. Elohim promised in the Tanak (Old Testament) not to ever reject Israel, saying:
Thus says YHWH, Who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, YHWH Tzva’ot is His name:
If these ordinances depart from before Me, says YHWH, then the seed of Yisra’el also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
Thus says YHWH: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Yisra’el for all that they have done, says YHWH.
(Jer. 31:35-37 HRV)
Elohim has also stated in the Ketuvim Netzarim that he has not rejected Israel, as we read in Romans:
But I say, Has Eloah rejected his people? Absolutely not! For I also am from Yisra'el. I am from the seed of Avraham, from the tribe of Benyamin.
Eloah has not rejected his people who from before were known by him. Also, do you not know what he said in the writing about Eliyahu when he was complaining to Eloah concerning Yisra'el? And he said
Now I say, Have they stumbled so as to fall? Absolutely not! But in their stumbling, life has come to the Goyim for their jealousy.
Do not boast against the [natural] branches; but if you boast, you are not bearing the root, but the root bears you.
(Rom. 11: 1-2, 11, 18 HRV)
This "boasting" is Replacement theology which is twice condemned in the Ketuvim Netzarim saying,:
I know of the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not,
but are a congregation of Satan."
(Rev. 2:9; 3:9.)
Now we have already shown that the Kingdom of Elohim is the restored Kingdom of Israel. Now bearing in mind that the Kingdom is Israel, we must now determine if the claim made by Replacement theologians is correct, has the Christian Church replaced Israel as the Kingdom?
One of the passages which makes it clear that the Christian Church cannot be the Kingdom spoken of in the New Testament may be found in 1Cor. 15:50-55 which states that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1Cor. 15:50) and that as a
result when Messiah returns (1Cor. 15:52; 1Thes. 4:16-17; Mt. 24:30-31) mortals will be made immortal (1Cor. 15:50-55). If this refers to the Christian Church, then no mortal man of flesh and blood can be a part of the Church. This would make no sense at all.
Another passage which makes it clear that the Kingdom cannot be the Church takes place in Acts chapter one immediately after Yeshua's resurrection. In this text we read that the emissaries spent forty days studying "the things pertaining to the Kingdom of Elohim" with Yeshua (Acts 1:3.) After this incredible forty day study the emissaries ask Yeshua "Lord, will you at this time restore the Kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6.) After forty days of study with Yeshua on the topic the emissaries still believed that the Kingdom would be a restored Kingdom of Israel, this can only be because this is what they were taught for forty days.
The strange thing is that VPW also taught Dispensatoionalism which tends to teach an entirely different theology called Church/Israel Dichotomy
Another misunderstanding of the Church/Israel relationship is known as "Church/Israel Dichotomy. Church/Israel dichotomy is the position held by Dispensational Premillinialists (called Dispensationalists). This teaching was first put forward by John Darby during the 19th Century. Church/Israel Dichotomy teaches that the Church and Israel are two totally different groups with no members in common. According to this teaching, when a member of Israel (a Jew) becomes a member of the Church (a Christian) he is no longer a member of Israel (a Jew). Church/Israel Dichotomy came about as a result of false Dispensationalist teachings. Dispenstationalism teaches that the history of man can broken down into various compartmentalized "ages" or "dispensations." One of these is called "The Age of Law", this "Age of Law" is said to have ended with the founding of the Church and the beginning of a "Church Age" in Acts chapter 2. During this "Church Age" Dispensationalists teach that the Old Testament Law does not apply. This "Church Age" of no Law will, they say, end with the start of the seven year Tribulation (Dan. 9:27). The Dispensationalists admit that the Law is in effect during the Tribulation, since the sacrifices and offerings are continued during this time (Dan. 9:27). As a result Dispensationalists invented a Pre-Trib Rapture (dealt with in another chapter) to separate the Church Age from the Tribulation so that the Church is raptured away and Israel remains for the Tribulation. To make this theory work, Dispensationalists had to make the Church and Israel two totally separate groups, so that everyone was either raptured away as part of the Church, or remained behind as Israel to enter the
Tribulation. Thus Church/Israel Dichotomy was invented.
One of the verses used by Church/Israel Dichotomists is 1Cor. 10:32, "Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the Church of God." (KJV) The Dichotomy Theologians argue that these must be three distinct groups, with no common members. The truth is that there is no indication of this, for example "signs, wonders and miricals" (2Cor. 12:12) are not three distinct sets with no common members. The famous phrase "Friends, Romans and countrymen" also contained common members.
Another text used by Dichotomists is Eph. 2:14-16. However in this text we see only the destruction of enmity, not the birth of dichotomy. Another verse used by Dichotomists is Col. 3:11 "...there is neither Greek nor Jew..." however, if we look at a parallel passage in Gal. 3:28 we also read "There is neither Jew nor Greek... neither male nor female..." Yet females continue to exist as a distinct group with differing obligations (see 1Tim. 2:12-14; Titus 2:3-5.) The true meaning of this text is that Jews and Gentiles are both saved in the same way (Acts. 15:11; Rom. 3:22; 10:12) and both can be immersed into the Body of Messiah (1Cor. 12:13).
Several N.T. passages make it clear that Jews and Gentiles still exist as distinguishable peoples among believers (1Cor. 12:13; Rom. 9:3-4; Rom. 3:1-2; Rev. 2:9; 3:9) In the Ketuvim Netzarim Jews are still a nation of Priests (1Pt. 1:1; 2:5, 9 = Is. 43:20-21; Deut. 7:6; 10:15; Ex. 19:5-6; Is. 61:6) moreover in Acts 15 and 21 is is clear that there are both Jews and gentile believers (Acts 15:19-20; 21:21-26) with different emissaries (Acts 9:15; Gal. 1:16; 2:7-9).
According to Wierwille, God gave up on the Jews and made us (Wayfers) the chosen people. Is that anti-Semitism? I like to think it is more like a misguided, delusional form of elitism.
Only he never came across as being hateful about it.
It was almost like he professed to have some sort of "pity" for the Jews.
He did, incidentally, claim that modern days Jews are not the descendants of the Biblical Jews, a claim that modern DNA technology has shown to be incorrect.
Only he never came across as being hateful about it.
It was almost like he professed to have some sort of "pity" for the Jews.
He did, incidentally, claim that modern days Jews are not the descendants of the Biblical Jews, a claim that modern DNA technology has shown to be incorrect.
Not sure what you mean. Modern Jews come from many back grounds: Ashkenazi; Sephardic; Yeminite and until recently "Babylonian" Jews from Iraq who had been in Babylon since the Babylonian exile.
As I understand it DNA decomposes and we have no DNA from "Biblical Jews" to compare with.
Also since Gentiles can BECOME Jews (See Esther 8:17) there is a constant influx of new DNA.
Not sure what you mean. Modern Jews come from many back grounds: Ashkenazi; Sephardic; Yeminite and until recently "Babylonian" Jews from Iraq who had been in Babylon since the Babylonian exile.
As I understand it DNA decomposes and we have no DNA from "Biblical Jews" to compare with.
Also since Gentiles can BECOME Jews (See Esther 8:17) there is a constant influx of new DNA.
Wierwille said that the Jewish people of the present day are descendants of Attila the Hun.
As I understand it, DNA technology can identify markers of geographic origin and the geography involved in Wierwille's claim does not prove out. Someone please correct me on this. I'm sure I've oversimplified it.
He also said that when God reunites the peoples of Israel, they won't be arriving on jet planes. This was a derogatory statement directed toward the country we current know as Israel.
Wierwille said that the Jewish people of the present day are descendants of Attila the Hun.
As I understand it, DNA technology can identify markers of geographic origin and the geography involved in Wierwille's claim does not prove out. Someone please correct me on this. I'm sure I've oversimplified it.
He also said that when God reunites the peoples of Israel, they won't be arriving on jet planes. This was a derogatory statement directed toward the country we current know as Israel.
Sorry I misread your post, I thought you said VPW taught modern Jews are biblical Jews but that some genetics research today was disproving that. Now I see the word "not" and that you were saying the opposite,
I agree that the Way International teaches Holocaust denial and in that is anti-Semitic. To be completely accurate this is not literally taught in their classes and services, but rather ad hoc additional material they teach their Corps leadership and Adv. Class students, and the general view held by their leadership.
I think VPW's bug up his rear was more to do with the amount of budget spent annually on protecting Israel as a nation from surrounding nations in our day and time. He would quote Arthur Koestler's "Thirteenth Tribe" on that and express distaste as he said they were not the same as the Israel of the Bible. As I said he was a known conspiracy theorist, at least by those who apply critical thinking.
I personally reject those teachings. The Holocaust was real. And the rest of the conspiracy theory was just VPW being a little Napolean with a paranoia complex. Now that has transferred down very well to his successors.
It seems that recent developments have revealed that the whole "Way Cult" thing was actually an elaborate hoax.
Yep, some prankster slipped some sort of psychedelic cosmic mold spores into our familia while we were preoccupied with putting big HS's and small hs's into our Bibles.
The whole time we thought we were scrubbing toilets for Jesus and having BM's(ummm, that's short for Believer's Meetings.), we were actually sitting at the campfire, holding hands, making s'mores and singing Kumbaya.
HaHa--- I drove by the old "HQ" property not long ago and discovered that it was never really there.
There is nothing there but cornfields that have obviously been cultivated there for eons.
Remember Tom Wolfe's Electric Acid Kool Aid Test?
I guess what happened to us musta been kinda like the Psychedelic Cosmic Mold Spores Familia Test
HeeHeeHee---I feel so silly in retrospect.
Hmmmmm. I didn't really post this. (Or did I?)
This post has been edited by waysider: 25 September 2007 - 09:53 PM
Only he never came across as being hateful about it.
It was almost like he professed to have some sort of "pity" for the Jews.
He did, incidentally, claim that modern days Jews are not the descendants of the Biblical Jews, a claim that modern DNA technology has shown to be incorrect.
That's what I remember.
TWI's stance was similar to the JW's. TWI didn't come right out and claim to be part of the 144000 like the JW's, but I perceived WC as a sort of 144000.
Yep, some prankster slipped some sort of psychedelic cosmic mold spores into our familia while we were preoccupied with putting big HS's and small hs's into our Bibles.
Damn, that familia really left it's mark on so many people. It could be the only proof we were ever involved in that cult. Familia - Breakfast of Cult-champions!
But, seriously waysider, that put things in perspective and had me belly laughing at the same time.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
10
6
7
9
Popular Days
May 25
27
May 29
10
May 26
7
May 28
6
Top Posters In This Topic
Ham 10 posts
waysider 6 posts
OldSkool 7 posts
James Trimm 9 posts
Popular Days
May 25 2010
27 posts
May 29 2010
10 posts
May 26 2010
7 posts
May 28 2010
6 posts
Popular Posts
sirguessalot
why limit the question to the jewish branch? twi theology is also anti-protestant, anti-catholic, anti-apache, anti-hindu, anti-buddhist, anti-taoist, anti-zen, anti-quaker, anti-celt, anti-psycholog
Ron G.
Hi James, I just wanted to mention that the Arkansas Democrat Gazette article you posted refers, by name, to a certain leader, Monty H. who, as far as I know is still "in". I knew him quite well at t
chockfull
Sure, James.
The Myth of the Six Million was a book on the Way Corps recommended reading list. Also commonly taught was that the diary of Anne Frank was a forgery. Also, the book The Thrteenth Tribe was on that recommended reading list. If you're not familiar with that book, its conclusions were that the modern Jewish community were more accurately descendants of the Khazar empire that occupied the Middle East around 1000AD and throughout the time of the Crusades, and as an empire adopted the Jewish religion. So the accusation of that book was that the bloodline was not literally pure from Abraham, but an adopted one.
Of course public knowledge of these things would draw great opposition from the Semitic community and a direct label of Anti-Semitism. And I'm sure in a certain sense that label is warranted.
My personal take on it was that it was more that Dr. VPW was kind of a "conspiracy theory" nut in many ways than it was an actual hate for Jewish descendants. He also was a fan of teachings on the "Illuminati". I don't think that current or ex followers of the Way largely have an attitude of hate or distaste against Jews. More of an elitist mentality overall.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think *dr*(?) wierwille was a man of gawd about in the same manner "Dr" Mengela was a family physician..
wierwille's follower, loy c martindale publically stated that the "Jews were no more God's people than the Apache Indians.."
or something to that effect..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
They don't like to read the word Jew in the Bible, but replace it with Judean.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
"anti-semetic".. is the bear cathololic?
does the pope..
I really shouldn't go there..
James, I brought an old thread I started up from the murky depths of Greasespot Cafe..
Holocaust denial. Tell me what you think..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
James Trimm
Well my wife is the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor... so the should tell you a little.
Since the Holocaust DID happen, and because of the nature of what it was, Holocaust denial IS anti-semitism.
Edited by James TrimmLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Yep. and there, we have to agree..
There were like 17 pages after I brought up the question..
the most intriguing were the replies from the character who actually denied the extent of it all..
I don't think holocaust denial and anti-Semitism defined the way international entirely.. but it defined it at the core..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
So.. what or how do you feel about reincarnation?
I've looked through more than one belief to explain all of this.. the feelings of *superiority*.. the forgetting what was done..
:)
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Do you think we are *eternal* (at least as I MIGHT understand it) beings?
just wonder..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
According to Wierwille, God gave up on the Jews and made us (Wayfers) the chosen people. Is that anti-Semitism? I like to think it is more like a misguided, delusional form of elitism.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
James Trimm
That is replacement theology.
Replacement Theology
One of the greatest misunderstandings of the Church/Israel relationship is called "Replacement Theology". This theology teaches that the Church has been given the
promises made to Israel, because of Israel's unbelief and rejection of the Messiah. Thus these theologians teach that the Church has replaced Israel and the Jews have no future in
Elohim’s plan. This theology guises itself under a number of names: "Dominion Theology"; "Kingdom Now Theology"; "Covenant Theology"; and "Reconstructionalist Theology". This theology is held to by Postmillenialists, amillinialists and some Premillinialists.
One of the major problems with replacement theology is that it falsely leaves Elohim guilty of not keeping his promises to literal Israel to whom they pertain (Rom. 9:3-4). These promises include:
* PROMISE OF LAND (Gen. 12:7; 13:15-16; 17:7-8).
* PROMISE TO REGATHER ISRAEL AND RESTORE THE KINGDOM OF
ISRAEL WITH MESSIAH AS KING. (Deut. 30:1-5; Is. 9:6-7; 11:1-16; Jer. 23:5-6; see also: Deut 28:1-14; 2Sam. 7:4-14; 1Chron. 17; Ps. 89; Is. 2:1-4; 14:1; 25:1-27:13; 56:1-18; 60:1-22; 62:1-12; 65:17-25; 66:7-9; Jer. 16:14-15; 30:1-33:26; Ezkl. 33:1-39:29; 40:1-48:35; Hosea 11:1-14:9; Joel 2:18-3:21; Amos 9:11-15; Micah 4:1-8ff; 7:11-20; Zeph. 3:9-20; Hag. 2:20-23; Zech. 14; Dan. 2:44.)
One of the key points of Replacement theology is its false claim that Elohim has rejected Israel. The Scriptures, however, are very plain. Elohim promised in the Tanak (Old Testament) not to ever reject Israel, saying:
Thus says YHWH, Who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, YHWH Tzva’ot is His name:
If these ordinances depart from before Me, says YHWH, then the seed of Yisra’el also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
Thus says YHWH: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Yisra’el for all that they have done, says YHWH.
(Jer. 31:35-37 HRV)
Elohim has also stated in the Ketuvim Netzarim that he has not rejected Israel, as we read in Romans:
But I say, Has Eloah rejected his people? Absolutely not! For I also am from Yisra'el. I am from the seed of Avraham, from the tribe of Benyamin.
Eloah has not rejected his people who from before were known by him. Also, do you not know what he said in the writing about Eliyahu when he was complaining to Eloah concerning Yisra'el? And he said
Now I say, Have they stumbled so as to fall? Absolutely not! But in their stumbling, life has come to the Goyim for their jealousy.
Do not boast against the [natural] branches; but if you boast, you are not bearing the root, but the root bears you.
(Rom. 11: 1-2, 11, 18 HRV)
This "boasting" is Replacement theology which is twice condemned in the Ketuvim Netzarim saying,:
I know of the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not,
but are a congregation of Satan."
(Rev. 2:9; 3:9.)
Now we have already shown that the Kingdom of Elohim is the restored Kingdom of Israel. Now bearing in mind that the Kingdom is Israel, we must now determine if the claim made by Replacement theologians is correct, has the Christian Church replaced Israel as the Kingdom?
One of the passages which makes it clear that the Christian Church cannot be the Kingdom spoken of in the New Testament may be found in 1Cor. 15:50-55 which states that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1Cor. 15:50) and that as a
result when Messiah returns (1Cor. 15:52; 1Thes. 4:16-17; Mt. 24:30-31) mortals will be made immortal (1Cor. 15:50-55). If this refers to the Christian Church, then no mortal man of flesh and blood can be a part of the Church. This would make no sense at all.
Another passage which makes it clear that the Kingdom cannot be the Church takes place in Acts chapter one immediately after Yeshua's resurrection. In this text we read that the emissaries spent forty days studying "the things pertaining to the Kingdom of Elohim" with Yeshua (Acts 1:3.) After this incredible forty day study the emissaries ask Yeshua "Lord, will you at this time restore the Kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6.) After forty days of study with Yeshua on the topic the emissaries still believed that the Kingdom would be a restored Kingdom of Israel, this can only be because this is what they were taught for forty days.
The strange thing is that VPW also taught Dispensatoionalism which tends to teach an entirely different theology called Church/Israel Dichotomy
Another misunderstanding of the Church/Israel relationship is known as "Church/Israel Dichotomy. Church/Israel dichotomy is the position held by Dispensational Premillinialists (called Dispensationalists). This teaching was first put forward by John Darby during the 19th Century. Church/Israel Dichotomy teaches that the Church and Israel are two totally different groups with no members in common. According to this teaching, when a member of Israel (a Jew) becomes a member of the Church (a Christian) he is no longer a member of Israel (a Jew). Church/Israel Dichotomy came about as a result of false Dispensationalist teachings. Dispenstationalism teaches that the history of man can broken down into various compartmentalized "ages" or "dispensations." One of these is called "The Age of Law", this "Age of Law" is said to have ended with the founding of the Church and the beginning of a "Church Age" in Acts chapter 2. During this "Church Age" Dispensationalists teach that the Old Testament Law does not apply. This "Church Age" of no Law will, they say, end with the start of the seven year Tribulation (Dan. 9:27). The Dispensationalists admit that the Law is in effect during the Tribulation, since the sacrifices and offerings are continued during this time (Dan. 9:27). As a result Dispensationalists invented a Pre-Trib Rapture (dealt with in another chapter) to separate the Church Age from the Tribulation so that the Church is raptured away and Israel remains for the Tribulation. To make this theory work, Dispensationalists had to make the Church and Israel two totally separate groups, so that everyone was either raptured away as part of the Church, or remained behind as Israel to enter the
Tribulation. Thus Church/Israel Dichotomy was invented.
One of the verses used by Church/Israel Dichotomists is 1Cor. 10:32, "Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the Church of God." (KJV) The Dichotomy Theologians argue that these must be three distinct groups, with no common members. The truth is that there is no indication of this, for example "signs, wonders and miricals" (2Cor. 12:12) are not three distinct sets with no common members. The famous phrase "Friends, Romans and countrymen" also contained common members.
Another text used by Dichotomists is Eph. 2:14-16. However in this text we see only the destruction of enmity, not the birth of dichotomy. Another verse used by Dichotomists is Col. 3:11 "...there is neither Greek nor Jew..." however, if we look at a parallel passage in Gal. 3:28 we also read "There is neither Jew nor Greek... neither male nor female..." Yet females continue to exist as a distinct group with differing obligations (see 1Tim. 2:12-14; Titus 2:3-5.) The true meaning of this text is that Jews and Gentiles are both saved in the same way (Acts. 15:11; Rom. 3:22; 10:12) and both can be immersed into the Body of Messiah (1Cor. 12:13).
Several N.T. passages make it clear that Jews and Gentiles still exist as distinguishable peoples among believers (1Cor. 12:13; Rom. 9:3-4; Rom. 3:1-2; Rev. 2:9; 3:9) In the Ketuvim Netzarim Jews are still a nation of Priests (1Pt. 1:1; 2:5, 9 = Is. 43:20-21; Deut. 7:6; 10:15; Ex. 19:5-6; Is. 61:6) moreover in Acts 15 and 21 is is clear that there are both Jews and gentile believers (Acts 15:19-20; 21:21-26) with different emissaries (Acts 9:15; Gal. 1:16; 2:7-9).
How odd of God to choose the Jews,
But not so odd as those who choose,
The Jewish God and hate the Jews.
Edited by James TrimmLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Let us not forget that vpw, at times, would single out his German heritage
in complimentary terms, and NEVER went on record saying Hitler was bad,
that Nazi Germany was bad, and so on.
One poster spoke of his daughter being in high school, along with several
local twi'ers. Their high school had a guest speaker- a Holocaust
SURVIVOR- as in "the Nazis arrested me for the crime of being Jewish and
threw me in a concentration camp."
The twi high schoolers made a nuisance of themselves and mocked her to
the point of driving the guest speaker to tears, stopping when the
other high schooler MADE them shut up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Very interesting observation..
but who am I.
In a way.. (pardon the pun).. I am BLESSED. What am I.. I don't know..
neither do I have to define it..
:)
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
I'm right there with ya, squirrel. You rock with your undefinable squirrelliness.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, "replacementism".
That was what Wierwille promoted.
Only he never came across as being hateful about it.
It was almost like he professed to have some sort of "pity" for the Jews.
He did, incidentally, claim that modern days Jews are not the descendants of the Biblical Jews, a claim that modern DNA technology has shown to be incorrect.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
James Trimm
Not sure what you mean. Modern Jews come from many back grounds: Ashkenazi; Sephardic; Yeminite and until recently "Babylonian" Jews from Iraq who had been in Babylon since the Babylonian exile.
As I understand it DNA decomposes and we have no DNA from "Biblical Jews" to compare with.
Also since Gentiles can BECOME Jews (See Esther 8:17) there is a constant influx of new DNA.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Wierwille said that the Jewish people of the present day are descendants of Attila the Hun.
As I understand it, DNA technology can identify markers of geographic origin and the geography involved in Wierwille's claim does not prove out. Someone please correct me on this. I'm sure I've oversimplified it.
He also said that when God reunites the peoples of Israel, they won't be arriving on jet planes. This was a derogatory statement directed toward the country we current know as Israel.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
James Trimm
Sorry I misread your post, I thought you said VPW taught modern Jews are biblical Jews but that some genetics research today was disproving that. Now I see the word "not" and that you were saying the opposite,
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
maybe I'm asking something too personal.. but isn't what this is about?
I'll let it be..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I agree that the Way International teaches Holocaust denial and in that is anti-Semitic. To be completely accurate this is not literally taught in their classes and services, but rather ad hoc additional material they teach their Corps leadership and Adv. Class students, and the general view held by their leadership.
I think VPW's bug up his rear was more to do with the amount of budget spent annually on protecting Israel as a nation from surrounding nations in our day and time. He would quote Arthur Koestler's "Thirteenth Tribe" on that and express distaste as he said they were not the same as the Israel of the Bible. As I said he was a known conspiracy theorist, at least by those who apply critical thinking.
I personally reject those teachings. The Holocaust was real. And the rest of the conspiracy theory was just VPW being a little Napolean with a paranoia complex. Now that has transferred down very well to his successors.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:51 PM
Hey Kids!!!
Good News!
It seems that recent developments have revealed that the whole "Way Cult" thing was actually an elaborate hoax.
Yep, some prankster slipped some sort of psychedelic cosmic mold spores into our familia while we were preoccupied with putting big HS's and small hs's into our Bibles.
The whole time we thought we were scrubbing toilets for Jesus and having BM's(ummm, that's short for Believer's Meetings.), we were actually sitting at the campfire, holding hands, making s'mores and singing Kumbaya.
HaHa--- I drove by the old "HQ" property not long ago and discovered that it was never really there.
There is nothing there but cornfields that have obviously been cultivated there for eons.
Remember Tom Wolfe's Electric Acid Kool Aid Test?
I guess what happened to us musta been kinda like the Psychedelic Cosmic Mold Spores Familia Test
HeeHeeHee---I feel so silly in retrospect.
Hmmmmm. I didn't really post this. (Or did I?)
This post has been edited by waysider: 25 September 2007 - 09:53 PM
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
That's what I remember.
TWI's stance was similar to the JW's. TWI didn't come right out and claim to be part of the 144000 like the JW's, but I perceived WC as a sort of 144000.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
how could I even forget?
all the title Kesey got in the book was "Chief"..
whadda we do now, chief..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Sometimes.. I wish he could turn up in a rather large bowl of DMT or something..
No, I really don't need the drugs to see this dang..
Sorry. Quote my favorite book of all times, and I have to show up..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Damn, that familia really left it's mark on so many people. It could be the only proof we were ever involved in that cult. Familia - Breakfast of Cult-champions!
But, seriously waysider, that put things in perspective and had me belly laughing at the same time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.