I was EXTREMELY disappointed when I arrived in-residence to find there was no real curriculum. I mean shocked. I expected all along real classes and instead found my self in study hall 4 hours working the way magazine and way of abundance and power classes and the rest of the day scrubbing toilets. What a joke.
I'm sure it's miles apart from Oral Roberts Univ.. And a boat load of others. However, when I first left TWI and the Corps, that was one of the first things I did as I was looking to get some 'REAL' training with a real degree.
But what I found out was it's as varied as anything else.. Some are very structured like the normal collegiate system. But there were quite a large amount of "other" Christian training programs similar. And no, I didn't hook up with any of the "others" after having my share of the Corps. Although a good amount of the less class structured ones seemed to be in Europe. Not sure why..
Its odd that they give a degree in theology when they dont even touch the subject--Of course they were never accredited by anyone either so i suppose they could have granted degrees in enlightened understanding or anything that tickled their fancy and gotten away with it since they had no oversight.
After seeing this thread I called a friend with a M.Div. degree from Andover Newton. They were exposed to every conceivable train of christian thought(liberation theology, conservative theology, feminist theology etc, the church fathers, church history, the mystics, world religions etc etc)-- and allowed to listen to their own conscious and make up their own mind.
There was also a strong emphasis on ethics and practical ministry ( she did a year in a hospital and another year as an associate pastor)as well as the expected bible classes, classes in greek and hebrew, pastoral counseling, spiritual development, christian education etc etc. and other electives
Ive forgotten half of the classes she took but they were very well rounded and not the words of one man.
She's the director of the homeless shelter here in town and does a very good job.
I always did feel a bit creepy doing that. Will the Russians attack?! Where are the guns!
Looking back......I think I was a rebel.
Under my breath, I thought the whole concept was ridiculous. First of all, God was our protector.....not two groups of two walking around all night shivering during the winter. Secondly, why the heck didn't twi just hire a security service?
I felt used. Here, I had worked a 4-hour shift during the day.....now, I have to be out here tonight? Ridiculous.
Its odd that they give a degree in theology when they dont even touch the subject--Of course they were never accredited by anyone either so i suppose they could have granted degrees in enlightened understanding or anything that tickled their fancy and gotten away with it since they had no oversight.
After seeing this thread I called a friend with a M.Div. degree from Andover Newton.
Yeah, that M.Div. curriculum is tough. I have a friend going through it right now. They don't mess around.
The first thing that would have crossed my mind was: why am I patroling these grounds? Is somebody's believing askew?
SoCrates
I can see having some sort of security at night. Whether that should have been the students is another question. Also, was it really necessary, if someone was assigned "bless patrol", to require them to be at breakfast at 7-am and do their regular work assignment the next day? Guess that was supposed to make us tough, but it was another control thing. That and they didn't want to pay people to work security. I know one poor guy, or was it a woman, that worked bp and the next night was Corps night with VP live. They got basically screamed at for falling asleep during the teaching. Sheesh, they had only had about 3 hours of sleep.
Also, was it really necessary, if someone was assigned "bless patrol", to require them to be at breakfast at 7-am and do their regular work assignment the next day? Guess that was supposed to make us tough, but it was another control thing.
When I was in-rez.....5:30am teachings were scheduled at least two or three times per week. Of course, corps time was 10 minutes ahead, so one had to be heading up the stairs to wierwille library by 5:18am to be "righteous." Alarm clocks were set for 4:20, 4:30, 4:40, and 4:50am depending on one's preference. Imagine what it was like....trying to sleep after 4:20am as 18 men kept hitting those snooze buttons? Uugh.
So....depending on one's bless patrol shift, I know there were times where the person never even went back to their bedroom to sleep. And, then......people wonder why some corps were head-bobbing or drooling during the teachings? or lunch?
Sleep deprivation was common. And, don't forget those assigned prayer viguals when your twig got assigned 3:00am and the buddy-system to get everyone there on time.....haha
The bless patrol: It was a way of indoctrinating particpants with conspiracy phobia. "They're out to get us, kids!" Now, Wierwille, on the other hand, had just cause to fear retaliation from irate husbands, fathers and the like but, he had his own private "bless patrol" to keep an eye on those matters.
The sleep deprivation: Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. It was a way to keep our minds from noticing what was really going on, in the "big picture" sense.
What's all that got to do with earning an academic degree?
I was EXTREMELY disappointed when I arrived in-residence to find there was no real curriculum. I mean shocked. I expected all along real classes and instead found my self in study hall 4 hours working the way magazine and way of abundance and power classes and the rest of the day scrubbing toilets. What a joke.
Wow, things really changed. I wonder if your lack of a curriculum was the result of so many Corps having left twi, because almost all the teachers of the classes when I was in rez were Corps grads. When were you in rez, OldSkool?
We had a packed curriculum (I'm talking quantity, not quality, because the latter varied) during 1978-79 and 1980-81. We had fewer classes our second year in rez because we were given time to work on our research papers.
Yeah, that M.Div. curriculum is tough. I have a friend going through it right now. They don't mess around.
Yea well they shouldnt-To paraphrase VP you wouldnt want a surgeon who wasnt well schooled doing surgery on you...I wasnt in the WC so I cant really speak to that, but Ive known a lot of WC and a lot of people that have various degrees from accredited theological institutions. They are really two very very different animals altogether.
WC was more like a focussed bible study group, or a study of Wierwillism, it didnt give the opportunity to study any varying or expanded viewpoints from the massive body of christian thought readily available anywhere outside the walls of New Knoxville and Emporia
WC was more like a focussed bible study group, or a study of Wierwillism, it didnt give the opportunity to study any varying or expanded viewpoints from the massive body of christian thought readily available anywhere outside the walls of New Knoxville and Emporia
The corps program was like an amalgamation of...
1) Wierwille Doctrine and Salesmanship
2) Salted to The Way International For Life
3) Corps Training synonymous with "Spiritual Marine Corps"
4) More Abundant Life Over Survival and Conspiracy Theories
Wow, things really changed. I wonder if your lack of a curriculum was the result of so many Corps having left twi, because almost all the teachers of the classes when I was in rez were Corps grads. When were you in rez, OldSkool?
We had a packed curriculum (I'm talking quantity, not quality, because the latter varied) during 1978-79 and 1980-81. We had fewer classes our second year in rez because we were given time to work on our research papers.
Was in-rez early millennium. There were classes scattered throughout the year. Most of them were video classes, such as A New Life from Dr. Rawlins. English for the Greek Student, and Greek were sort of the highlight of the year. We actually had classes where we "learned" how to use lexicons and concordances. My point is there are very few classes compared to the amount of time spent in study hall. When classes are held it's during study time. The work program remains intact no matter what..lol.
I attribute the lack of substance to Martindale gutting the staff/corps ranks and then Rosalie coming along with poor leadership skills and not having the resources to run a proper curriculum.
Wow, things really changed. I wonder if your lack of a curriculum was the result of so many Corps having left twi, because almost all the teachers of the classes when I was in rez were Corps grads. When were you in rez, OldSkool?
We had a packed curriculum (I'm talking quantity, not quality, because the latter varied) during 1978-79 and 1980-81. We had fewer classes our second year in rez because we were given time to work on our research papers.
Yeah......things have really changed since the late 70s in-rez program -- nearly 33 years ago!! Wowsers....how time flies. And, Oldskool is referencing his years like 8 years ago. Imagine how small the operation is today? The first corps program had 9 students. How many are there today? 12?
Back in the late 70s.....there were FIVE campuses of corps training. At Emporia, the inresidence groups were hitting the 325-student range. The Emporia campus was so crowded that TWO married couples were sharing ONE room. And, the elder corps on campus numbered around 150-170, or so. Not sure about the Indiana Campus, but it was crowded as well.
thats the crux of the matter--the final indoctrination.
Im not very conversant in the ways of theological seminaries but the ones that I do know of operate along the lines of educating and equipping people who want to serve in some capacity in the body of Christ.
It doesnt really matter all that much what denomination or group that they eventually choose, nor is one of their prerequisites "to practice believing to bring material abundance to the seminary"
At Emporia, the inresidence groups were hitting the 325-student range. The Emporia campus was so crowded that TWO married couples were sharing ONE room.
Karma? Are you LeBron James? Seriously, I think with staff and corps there were about 800 total on campus.
Yeah....the salt commitment.
Stay salted to twi....NO MATTER WHAT.
Just like the closing of pfal class "stand on 'the word'" only notched higher!
Stand as 'corps' for the rest of your life.
Sexual abuse in twi?..........keep standing.
Lies and exploitation.........keep standing.
Hypocrisy rampant.............keep standing.
Seducers and being seduced....keep standing.
Yet, the scriptures say to REFRAIN FROM ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL.
TWI is a conduit for EVIL.
How many times did we see VP weep openly over his "broken heart" regarding a corps person who took the covenant of salt and didn't "stand"? "Oh kids, you break my heart!"
Karma? Are you LeBron James? Seriously, I think with staff and corps there were about 800 total on campus.
How many times did we see VP weep openly over his "broken heart" regarding a corps person who took the covenant of salt and didn't "stand"? "Oh kids, you break my heart!"
He's got some balls using this salt covenant thing in the first place. I remember being taught how serious it was. Give me a BREAK!
Rosalie talked casually one morning before our weekly cabinet meeting about how much more the consequences are for people who break the salt covenant versus not being corps and leaving the ministry.
I dunno, the hardest consequence for me is decompressing from years of being salted to an abusive cult.
He's got some balls using this salt covenant thing in the first place. I remember being taught how serious it was. Give me a BREAK!
Rosalie talked casually one morning before our weekly cabinet meeting about how much more the consequences are for people who break the salt covenant versus not being corps and leaving the ministry.
I dunno, the hardest consequence for me is decompressing from years of being salted to an abusive cult.
Salt covenant. Didn't Craigmeister take a salt covenant during his instillation ceremony? We all know how that worked out.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
25
16
15
14
Popular Days
Apr 2
34
Apr 8
34
Apr 7
10
Apr 1
9
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 25 posts
Ham 16 posts
waysider 15 posts
So_crates 14 posts
Popular Days
Apr 2 2011
34 posts
Apr 8 2011
34 posts
Apr 7 2011
10 posts
Apr 1 2011
9 posts
Popular Posts
skyrider
Socks.....you are a peacemaker. I like that and respect you for it. Me?.......I come to GS to tell the other side and to help break the yoke of bondage. Here, at GS......that verse "he that is grea
skyrider
socks......you lost me there. I have grievances against the Way, against wierwille.......BECAUSE HE AND TRUSTEES WERE DECEPTIVE AND MANIPULATIVE AND BETRAYED TWI FOLLOWERS AND THE CORPS. In this thr
OldSkool
I was EXTREMELY disappointed when I arrived in-residence to find there was no real curriculum. I mean shocked. I expected all along real classes and instead found my self in study hall 4 hours working the way magazine and way of abundance and power classes and the rest of the day scrubbing toilets. What a joke.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrustAndObey
I'm sure it's miles apart from Oral Roberts Univ.. And a boat load of others. However, when I first left TWI and the Corps, that was one of the first things I did as I was looking to get some 'REAL' training with a real degree.
But what I found out was it's as varied as anything else.. Some are very structured like the normal collegiate system. But there were quite a large amount of "other" Christian training programs similar. And no, I didn't hook up with any of the "others" after having my share of the Corps. Although a good amount of the less class structured ones seemed to be in Europe. Not sure why..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
I wonder if they were as isolated as the corps program.....with in-house students patrolling the grounds all thru the night?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrustAndObey
I always did feel a bit creepy doing that. Will the Russians attack?! Where are the guns!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Its odd that they give a degree in theology when they dont even touch the subject--Of course they were never accredited by anyone either so i suppose they could have granted degrees in enlightened understanding or anything that tickled their fancy and gotten away with it since they had no oversight.
After seeing this thread I called a friend with a M.Div. degree from Andover Newton. They were exposed to every conceivable train of christian thought(liberation theology, conservative theology, feminist theology etc, the church fathers, church history, the mystics, world religions etc etc)-- and allowed to listen to their own conscious and make up their own mind.
There was also a strong emphasis on ethics and practical ministry ( she did a year in a hospital and another year as an associate pastor)as well as the expected bible classes, classes in greek and hebrew, pastoral counseling, spiritual development, christian education etc etc. and other electives
Ive forgotten half of the classes she took but they were very well rounded and not the words of one man.
She's the director of the homeless shelter here in town and does a very good job.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
The first thing that would have crossed my mind was: why am I patroling these grounds? Is somebody's believing askew?
SoCrates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Looking back......I think I was a rebel.
Under my breath, I thought the whole concept was ridiculous. First of all, God was our protector.....not two groups of two walking around all night shivering during the winter. Secondly, why the heck didn't twi just hire a security service?
I felt used. Here, I had worked a 4-hour shift during the day.....now, I have to be out here tonight? Ridiculous.
.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i had my bible degree on my resume for about 2 mintutes
i think since i had a real 4 year bachelor's degree, i had a better way degree, if i can remember correctly
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Yeah, that M.Div. curriculum is tough. I have a friend going through it right now. They don't mess around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
I can see having some sort of security at night. Whether that should have been the students is another question. Also, was it really necessary, if someone was assigned "bless patrol", to require them to be at breakfast at 7-am and do their regular work assignment the next day? Guess that was supposed to make us tough, but it was another control thing. That and they didn't want to pay people to work security. I know one poor guy, or was it a woman, that worked bp and the next night was Corps night with VP live. They got basically screamed at for falling asleep during the teaching. Sheesh, they had only had about 3 hours of sleep.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
When I was in-rez.....5:30am teachings were scheduled at least two or three times per week. Of course, corps time was 10 minutes ahead, so one had to be heading up the stairs to wierwille library by 5:18am to be "righteous." Alarm clocks were set for 4:20, 4:30, 4:40, and 4:50am depending on one's preference. Imagine what it was like....trying to sleep after 4:20am as 18 men kept hitting those snooze buttons? Uugh.
So....depending on one's bless patrol shift, I know there were times where the person never even went back to their bedroom to sleep. And, then......people wonder why some corps were head-bobbing or drooling during the teachings? or lunch?
Sleep deprivation was common. And, don't forget those assigned prayer viguals when your twig got assigned 3:00am and the buddy-system to get everyone there on time.....haha
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
(My opinion)
The bless patrol: It was a way of indoctrinating particpants with conspiracy phobia. "They're out to get us, kids!" Now, Wierwille, on the other hand, had just cause to fear retaliation from irate husbands, fathers and the like but, he had his own private "bless patrol" to keep an eye on those matters.
The sleep deprivation: Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. It was a way to keep our minds from noticing what was really going on, in the "big picture" sense.
What's all that got to do with earning an academic degree?
Nothing.... That's my point.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
Wow, things really changed. I wonder if your lack of a curriculum was the result of so many Corps having left twi, because almost all the teachers of the classes when I was in rez were Corps grads. When were you in rez, OldSkool?
We had a packed curriculum (I'm talking quantity, not quality, because the latter varied) during 1978-79 and 1980-81. We had fewer classes our second year in rez because we were given time to work on our research papers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Yea well they shouldnt-To paraphrase VP you wouldnt want a surgeon who wasnt well schooled doing surgery on you...I wasnt in the WC so I cant really speak to that, but Ive known a lot of WC and a lot of people that have various degrees from accredited theological institutions. They are really two very very different animals altogether.
WC was more like a focussed bible study group, or a study of Wierwillism, it didnt give the opportunity to study any varying or expanded viewpoints from the massive body of christian thought readily available anywhere outside the walls of New Knoxville and Emporia
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
The corps program was like an amalgamation of...
1) Wierwille Doctrine and Salesmanship
2) Salted to The Way International For Life
3) Corps Training synonymous with "Spiritual Marine Corps"
4) More Abundant Life Over Survival and Conspiracy Theories
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Was in-rez early millennium. There were classes scattered throughout the year. Most of them were video classes, such as A New Life from Dr. Rawlins. English for the Greek Student, and Greek were sort of the highlight of the year. We actually had classes where we "learned" how to use lexicons and concordances. My point is there are very few classes compared to the amount of time spent in study hall. When classes are held it's during study time. The work program remains intact no matter what..lol.
I attribute the lack of substance to Martindale gutting the staff/corps ranks and then Rosalie coming along with poor leadership skills and not having the resources to run a proper curriculum.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah......things have really changed since the late 70s in-rez program -- nearly 33 years ago!! Wowsers....how time flies. And, Oldskool is referencing his years like 8 years ago. Imagine how small the operation is today? The first corps program had 9 students. How many are there today? 12?
Back in the late 70s.....there were FIVE campuses of corps training. At Emporia, the inresidence groups were hitting the 325-student range. The Emporia campus was so crowded that TWO married couples were sharing ONE room. And, the elder corps on campus numbered around 150-170, or so. Not sure about the Indiana Campus, but it was crowded as well.
Twi is a shell of its former self.
Maybe, its Karma?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
thats the crux of the matter--the final indoctrination.
Im not very conversant in the ways of theological seminaries but the ones that I do know of operate along the lines of educating and equipping people who want to serve in some capacity in the body of Christ.
It doesnt really matter all that much what denomination or group that they eventually choose, nor is one of their prerequisites "to practice believing to bring material abundance to the seminary"
How blatant and vacuous is that???
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah....the salt commitment.
Stay salted to twi....NO MATTER WHAT.
Just like the closing of pfal class "stand on 'the word'" only notched higher!
Stand as 'corps' for the rest of your life.
Sexual abuse in twi?..........keep standing.
Lies and exploitation.........keep standing.
Hypocrisy rampant.............keep standing.
Seducers and being seduced....keep standing.
Yet, the scriptures say to REFRAIN FROM ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL.
TWI is a conduit for EVIL.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Which leads me to the conclusion that Saint Vic was actually an advance man for the other side.
SoCrates
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
It's hard to draw any other conclusion when you step back and look at what he did and his legacy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Karma? Are you LeBron James? Seriously, I think with staff and corps there were about 800 total on campus.
How many times did we see VP weep openly over his "broken heart" regarding a corps person who took the covenant of salt and didn't "stand"? "Oh kids, you break my heart!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
He's got some balls using this salt covenant thing in the first place. I remember being taught how serious it was. Give me a BREAK!
Rosalie talked casually one morning before our weekly cabinet meeting about how much more the consequences are for people who break the salt covenant versus not being corps and leaving the ministry.
I dunno, the hardest consequence for me is decompressing from years of being salted to an abusive cult.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Salt covenant. Didn't Craigmeister take a salt covenant during his instillation ceremony? We all know how that worked out.
SoCrates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.