Why do people who have been out of the ministry for decades, upon rediscovering each other on facebook, suddenly fall right back in with the lingo and twisted logic they left behind so long ago?
Perhaps, the twi-lingo is used to square-off in this meeting and see who still holds
alpha status? It's sizing one up as to whether he is friend or foe?
When I ran into one of my old twi buddies....she appeared to be out...but wasn't really. She claimed she was looking for me to bring me to twig again because I could get my 30 year commendation in a month or so.
We emailed back and forth a few times and I had to bug out. It was a broken record....stay with the ministry that taught you the word.....it's not like that anymore.....no questions asked if only you"ll come back....you'll get all your status and seniority back....wouldn't that be great??? Come on!!! I left for a reason.....I ain't goin' back!
I think also, that everyone needs to size up every one else. We lived under so much fear.....so meeting someone we were involved with back in the day will evoke that fear.....until everybody snifs everybody else out and understand where they're coming from.....it will take some time.
Also - - some of my old twi buddies joined up with one of the big offshoots and they can't wait for me to come back and fellowship with them...."remember all the fun we had?". Now everyone over 50 is fully aware of all the sexual perversion, the plagiarism etc. They know it, admit it but still worship "Dr" and "The Word is so good",,,, I mentioned Jesus Christ and they came back with....oh - - yeah....we know that....but don't you remember that the Word takes the place of the absent Christ? I asked them point blank.....do you really think Christ is absent? And they all agreed because he's in Heaven seated on the right hand of God. Then I said....whatever happened to "Christ in you"???? He's really not absent....and never said another word to them but every couple of months somebody rings me up trying to get my back.
I have no time for that....I won'f be sucked in to that evil. They know it's evil but they still practice it! How pitiful.
You guys just need to speak in tongues more. Feed that Christ in you some spiritual smashed 'taters and gravy. Renew your minds to the greatness of PLAF. Look what happened to Ananias and Saphira. They came in late for session #5 and God cold cocked 'em right then and there.
We emailed back and forth a few times and I had to bug out. It was a broken record....stay with the ministry that taught you the word.....it's not like that anymore.....no questions asked if only you"ll come back....you'll get all your status and seniority back....wouldn't that be great??? Come on!!! I left for a reason.....I ain't goin' back!
krys....I understand your recounting of these emails are from THEIR point of view,
but it really does beg the question What status? What seniority?
Looking back, it's ironic to me how some viewed the corps with a "status profile"
when, in reality, corps were dropped from active corps at a moment's notice. Of course,
I understand it.....but, corps were simply like "supervisors" and unworthy of proper
research skills in wierwille's eyes. Corps grads quickly found out that being a corps
graduate didn't really mean squat in the trustees' realm of recognition. Public
pandering, yes........solid support and status? No.
If a person has worked at a corporate hog farm for 15 years slopping around manure,
and is "promoted" to supervise 5 others........is that supervisory status?
How does an organization that was built on a multi-level-marketing structure continue to function, having long ago resigned itself to a single level existence?
Well, in this case there is thrive, function, and subsist. They thrived in VPW's day when he preyed on the young, groovy Christians...aka young hippies. They managed to function during LCM's day. Barely function while he bum rushed people as fast as he could. Now they subsist, they eek out an existance based on the white washed image of Victor Paul Wierwille. Rosalie lacks the capacity to do anything more than lead by institutional memory. I guess you could say "put a fork in them, they're done." Last one out please turn off the lights.
How does an organization that was built on a multi-level-marketing structure continue to function, having long ago resigned itself to a single level existence?
With some $53 MILLION in its stash/scam retirement portfolio.......the hospice staff make sure
the elderly are bathed, showered and dressed properly for their dining room appearance.
Shuffling along in retirement isn't all that hard when there are MILLIONS in the bank to cover
I believe twi was a temporary vehicle for the rapid dissemination of the true word. [my sheep hear my voice] I remember from the account of Eli that God can work through a crooked prophet.....
Now my views come out; I know that I was B/A before twi but I didn't know what it was called and I didn't understand what it meant. But - because I already had a channel open, many things I learned from that putrid organization poured into my mind and I knew the truth of them and was able to use them. My "status" was my use of the promised spiritual "toys" as my surrounding believers called them. Some never learned anything...some heard but never practiced....some practiced and got good at "it"while others never cared a whit! My "status" came from the notoriety of my "skills".
I know this sounds like bragging. If that's what you think....go suck a toad. But if you understand what I'm saying you understand because your spirit is making it clear to you. "They" thought I was some kind of "elite"...but I just believed from the beginning (earliest years of my life) and made use of the tools. We don't usually discuss spiritual matters here in this forum so some of you will be tuning out now. Laugh and poo poo if you dare....but others understand. I don't give a rat's petunias what you think.
While thinking about this, I'm not so sure that TWI is/was a conundrum. I would't give the organization that much credit!
From my twi tenure.....clearly, my twi-"friends" cover the vast continuum of the spectrum.
Some are at the highest levels of staff positions at twi's headquarters....
Some have joined splinter groups and taken up their banner....
Some have found a local church that they absolutely enjoy....
Some have found solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys...
Some have self-destructed and their lives are now in shambles...
Life swiftly moves on.....and for many, twi is but a faint memory.
Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys?
Transitions in life can bring upheaval and life can seem for a time like it's in shambles. Emerging from those times, a man or woman can find new direction for service and meaning and a higher calling outside of what social and religious structures he or she had become familiar (and comfortable) with. Ultimately, finding a life's calling in service to something bigger than yourself, be it God, service to society or whatever.
For a few years, I attended a church and became close with an assistant pastor who had known a few others who had been involved with twi. Eventually, that church grew to be a weary experience for me. I'm happy and believe I've found my calling, at least for now. But am not involved with any church or ministry.
Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys?
Yeah.....I caught that oversight as well when I re-visited my post.
Perhaps, I should have just added another category as......some found a new direction.
Thus, it would be an all-inclusive sector for those who changed faiths, rejected any
faith/religion, divorce, lifestyle changes, aspiring to a higher calling, desiring to
find solitude and peace, society involvement, political activist, high on life, bitter
from twi-past, health enthusiast, etc.........or dead.
I should know, by now, that when a list is put out there......someone gets left out.
Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys?
Transitions in life can bring upheaval and life can seem for a time like it's in shambles. Emerging from those times, a man or woman can find new direction for service and meaning and a higher calling outside of what social and religious structures he or she had become familiar (and comfortable) with. Ultimately, finding a life's calling in service to something bigger than yourself, be it God, service to society or whatever.
For a few years, I attended a church and became close with an assistant pastor who had known a few others who had been involved with twi. Eventually, that church grew to be a weary experience for me. I'm happy and believe I've found my calling, at least for now. But am not involved with any church or ministry.
Thank you for bringing out these points. Rebuilding a different life often looks like a demolition site. For awhile you look like a wreck (i should speak for myself) but the old life has to be torn down before a new life can be built.
I think one of the worst, unloving things I used to believe while in twi was this: when a person left twi and ran into trouble of one sort or another in their efforts to rebuild their life, we would point fingers and say, "See, the devil is wrecking their life. That's what they get for leaving the household of believers." Then one day I was in that situation. Thankfully, I was able to rebuild. Some others I know have not been able to. For them, I mourn today (this week I heard another awful story of family members turning on each other in times of need because of some stupid vpw doctrine).
Yes, "Virginia", there is a good life without twi. You can make it. Inspite of the holidays.
Thank you for bringing out these points. Rebuilding a different life often looks like a demolition site. For awhile you look like a wreck (i should speak for myself) but the old life has to be torn down before a new life can be built.
I think one of the worst, unloving things I used to believe while in twi was this: when a person left twi and ran into trouble of one sort or another in their efforts to rebuild their life, we would point fingers and say, "See, the devil is wrecking their life. That's what they get for leaving the household of believers." Then one day I was in that situation. Thankfully, I was able to rebuild. Some others I know have not been able to. For them, I mourn today (this week I heard another awful story of family members turning on each other in times of need because of some stupid vpw doctrine).
So true, so true....
And, in many ways....rebuilding one's life after twi might take longer with deeper pitfalls ahead. Having been thru twi's
"wash and dry" cycle for 15-20+ years, many of us had been systematically segregated from all support systems, family,
friends, co-workers, career path, cult-tarnished work resume, spouse and children upheaval, meager finances, more education, etc.
For example, a 42 year old man with wife and children in tow is swamped with hundreds of decisions when he steps away from the
twi-commune. And, as all statistics concur......financial pressures add significant burdens to one's marriage.
Many could easily argue that in leaving twi, one is in a major hole....not even at "ground level." And, it might take a few
years just to bring some "normalcy" to life again. I can easily relate to all those who go thru years and years of rebuilding
their lives and fighting thru the regrets, the hurt, the burdens.
And, husband and wife.....do they still have the same goals in life?
And, if they don't........how to work thru the differences?
And, if they can't........then what?
The challenges and upheaval is enough to challenge the best of marriages.
But really......twi has ALWAYS had a double-standard on facing hardship. When twi-ers go thru it.....the devil is fighting them.
When ex-twiers are going thru hardships.......it's because the "cop-out" has left twi. Same with death. Dozens of my twi-"friends"
have died in the past 25 years while "standing with twi's trustees."
Btw, how EVIL is the concept of the "doulos?" Slave to the Lord in concept but slave to the TWI hierarchy in practice. No thank you. The entire concept, as I recall (having left twi 25 years ago) as it was taught and practiced, was counter to the dignity of the individual, made a mockery of free will and engendered mental laziness (since the doulos only had to follow orders, not figure things out for her/himself).
Btw, how EVIL is the concept of the "doulos?" Slave to the Lord in concept but slave to the TWI hierarchy in practice. No thank you. The entire concept, as I recall (having left twi 25 years ago) as it was taught and practiced, was counter to the dignity of the individual, made a mockery of free will and engendered mental laziness (since the doulos only had to follow orders, not figure things out for her/himself).
And even more sadly, many TWI parents raised their kids with the same standard of doing what they are told and not having to think things for themselves. Thankfully not all of us fell into that trap.
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WordWolf
I see the problem as a worldview difference. There's people who've told themselves the following: "I had good times, learned good Bible, and saw some results in my life as a result of my time in twi.
skyrider
Perhaps, the twi-lingo is used to square-off in this meeting and see who still holds
alpha status? It's sizing one up as to whether he is friend or foe?
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waysider
Nah, it's way beyond that stage.... more like a frog coming out of hibernation or something.
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skyrider
Hibernation or indoctrination.......whatever, it's snoozing until awakened!
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waysider
Best to let sleeping dogs lie.
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krys
Maybe it depends on the individuals.
When I ran into one of my old twi buddies....she appeared to be out...but wasn't really. She claimed she was looking for me to bring me to twig again because I could get my 30 year commendation in a month or so.
We emailed back and forth a few times and I had to bug out. It was a broken record....stay with the ministry that taught you the word.....it's not like that anymore.....no questions asked if only you"ll come back....you'll get all your status and seniority back....wouldn't that be great??? Come on!!! I left for a reason.....I ain't goin' back!
I think also, that everyone needs to size up every one else. We lived under so much fear.....so meeting someone we were involved with back in the day will evoke that fear.....until everybody snifs everybody else out and understand where they're coming from.....it will take some time.
Also - - some of my old twi buddies joined up with one of the big offshoots and they can't wait for me to come back and fellowship with them...."remember all the fun we had?". Now everyone over 50 is fully aware of all the sexual perversion, the plagiarism etc. They know it, admit it but still worship "Dr" and "The Word is so good",,,, I mentioned Jesus Christ and they came back with....oh - - yeah....we know that....but don't you remember that the Word takes the place of the absent Christ? I asked them point blank.....do you really think Christ is absent? And they all agreed because he's in Heaven seated on the right hand of God. Then I said....whatever happened to "Christ in you"???? He's really not absent....and never said another word to them but every couple of months somebody rings me up trying to get my back.
I have no time for that....I won'f be sucked in to that evil. They know it's evil but they still practice it! How pitiful.
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skyrider
The Word Conundrum:
When wierwille took the mantle as the sole authority of "what The Word said".....
where were the "multitude of counsellors" and/or "elders at the gate" to confront
this runaway authority? And further, when wierwille stated "The Word is the ministry
and the ministry is the Word"......the idolatry in that statement oozes out!
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waysider
You guys just need to speak in tongues more. Feed that Christ in you some spiritual smashed 'taters and gravy. Renew your minds to the greatness of PLAF. Look what happened to Ananias and Saphira. They came in late for session #5 and God cold cocked 'em right then and there.
Dat's Riiiiiigggghhhttt!
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skyrider
Hence......this thread.
How can some people not see the COMMITTEE OF CONUNDRUMS that lay bare the perversions,
the puzzlements, and all the problems that plagued twi?
How can anyone with "spiritual discernment" or prudence consider the thought of going back
into that smell-hole? The repugnant stench reaches to the heavens!
Nobody bothers me anymore with twi invites......thank God.
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krys
Either they have been blinded by something (spiritual) or they no longer have the spiritual discernment they once had.
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skyrider
krys......isn't that the conundrum, the puzzling bewilderment, that has divided
the twi-ers, the splinter groups and those who have moved on to other things?
The three versions of this puzzle:
1) Twi no longer has the spiritual discernment they once had.
2) Twi strayed from its foundation under LCM's tenure and is regrouping.
3) Twi NEVER was founded on a rock foundation......but with a patchwork of plagairism and platitudes.
Some people, clearly, do not want to address this conundrum from an objective point of view. Some will simply
hold to their convictions based on emotion, or past experiences, irrelevant of all the evidence to the contrary.
But.....some of us have engaged in this discussion from a vast array of sources and testimony.
From my twi tenure.....clearly, my twi-"friends" cover the vast continuum of the spectrum.
Some are at the highest levels of staff positions at twi's headquarters....
Some have joined splinter groups and taken up their banner....
Some have found a local church that they absolutely enjoy....
Some have found solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys...
Some have self-destructed and their lives are now in shambles...
Life swiftly moves on.....and for many, twi is but a faint memory.
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skyrider
krys....I understand your recounting of these emails are from THEIR point of view,
but it really does beg the question What status? What seniority?
Looking back, it's ironic to me how some viewed the corps with a "status profile"
when, in reality, corps were dropped from active corps at a moment's notice. Of course,
I understand it.....but, corps were simply like "supervisors" and unworthy of proper
research skills in wierwille's eyes. Corps grads quickly found out that being a corps
graduate didn't really mean squat in the trustees' realm of recognition. Public
pandering, yes........solid support and status? No.
If a person has worked at a corporate hog farm for 15 years slopping around manure,
and is "promoted" to supervise 5 others........is that supervisory status?
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waysider
Here's a conundrum for you:
How does an organization that was built on a multi-level-marketing structure continue to function, having long ago resigned itself to a single level existence?
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OldSkool
Well, in this case there is thrive, function, and subsist. They thrived in VPW's day when he preyed on the young, groovy Christians...aka young hippies. They managed to function during LCM's day. Barely function while he bum rushed people as fast as he could. Now they subsist, they eek out an existance based on the white washed image of Victor Paul Wierwille. Rosalie lacks the capacity to do anything more than lead by institutional memory. I guess you could say "put a fork in them, they're done." Last one out please turn off the lights.
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skyrider
With some $53 MILLION in its stash/scam retirement portfolio.......the hospice staff make sure
the elderly are bathed, showered and dressed properly for their dining room appearance.
Shuffling along in retirement isn't all that hard when there are MILLIONS in the bank to cover
all their needs and wants and wants and wants.
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skyrider
Christ in you Conundrum:
Does faith come by hearing, and hearing the word of God bring deliverance to those
who are burdened and oppressed.....OR, does the truth need to be pre-packaged in a
three-week class to build believing?
Free Spirit Conundrum:
Did wierwille have to clamp down on the youth/believer movement with corporate mandates
when he realized that pfal grads and hippie-types, in masse, were walking in God's power
without vpw-led authority.....NOT NEEDING TWI'S HEAVY-HANDED DOGMA?
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krys
I believe twi was a temporary vehicle for the rapid dissemination of the true word. [my sheep hear my voice] I remember from the account of Eli that God can work through a crooked prophet.....
Now my views come out; I know that I was B/A before twi but I didn't know what it was called and I didn't understand what it meant. But - because I already had a channel open, many things I learned from that putrid organization poured into my mind and I knew the truth of them and was able to use them. My "status" was my use of the promised spiritual "toys" as my surrounding believers called them. Some never learned anything...some heard but never practiced....some practiced and got good at "it"while others never cared a whit! My "status" came from the notoriety of my "skills".
I know this sounds like bragging. If that's what you think....go suck a toad. But if you understand what I'm saying you understand because your spirit is making it clear to you. "They" thought I was some kind of "elite"...but I just believed from the beginning (earliest years of my life) and made use of the tools. We don't usually discuss spiritual matters here in this forum so some of you will be tuning out now. Laugh and poo poo if you dare....but others understand. I don't give a rat's petunias what you think.
While thinking about this, I'm not so sure that TWI is/was a conundrum. I would't give the organization that much credit!
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Rocky
Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys?
Transitions in life can bring upheaval and life can seem for a time like it's in shambles. Emerging from those times, a man or woman can find new direction for service and meaning and a higher calling outside of what social and religious structures he or she had become familiar (and comfortable) with. Ultimately, finding a life's calling in service to something bigger than yourself, be it God, service to society or whatever.
For a few years, I attended a church and became close with an assistant pastor who had known a few others who had been involved with twi. Eventually, that church grew to be a weary experience for me. I'm happy and believe I've found my calling, at least for now. But am not involved with any church or ministry.
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skyrider
Yeah.....I caught that oversight as well when I re-visited my post.
Perhaps, I should have just added another category as......some found a new direction.
Thus, it would be an all-inclusive sector for those who changed faiths, rejected any
faith/religion, divorce, lifestyle changes, aspiring to a higher calling, desiring to
find solitude and peace, society involvement, political activist, high on life, bitter
from twi-past, health enthusiast, etc.........or dead.
I should know, by now, that when a list is put out there......someone gets left out.
.
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Rocky
Yeah, that would cover it. :)
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penworks
Thank you for bringing out these points. Rebuilding a different life often looks like a demolition site. For awhile you look like a wreck (i should speak for myself) but the old life has to be torn down before a new life can be built.
I think one of the worst, unloving things I used to believe while in twi was this: when a person left twi and ran into trouble of one sort or another in their efforts to rebuild their life, we would point fingers and say, "See, the devil is wrecking their life. That's what they get for leaving the household of believers." Then one day I was in that situation. Thankfully, I was able to rebuild. Some others I know have not been able to. For them, I mourn today (this week I heard another awful story of family members turning on each other in times of need because of some stupid vpw doctrine).
Yes, "Virginia", there is a good life without twi. You can make it. Inspite of the holidays.
Cheers!
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skyrider
So true, so true....
And, in many ways....rebuilding one's life after twi might take longer with deeper pitfalls ahead. Having been thru twi's
"wash and dry" cycle for 15-20+ years, many of us had been systematically segregated from all support systems, family,
friends, co-workers, career path, cult-tarnished work resume, spouse and children upheaval, meager finances, more education, etc.
For example, a 42 year old man with wife and children in tow is swamped with hundreds of decisions when he steps away from the
twi-commune. And, as all statistics concur......financial pressures add significant burdens to one's marriage.
Many could easily argue that in leaving twi, one is in a major hole....not even at "ground level." And, it might take a few
years just to bring some "normalcy" to life again. I can easily relate to all those who go thru years and years of rebuilding
their lives and fighting thru the regrets, the hurt, the burdens.
And, husband and wife.....do they still have the same goals in life?
And, if they don't........how to work thru the differences?
And, if they can't........then what?
The challenges and upheaval is enough to challenge the best of marriages.
But really......twi has ALWAYS had a double-standard on facing hardship. When twi-ers go thru it.....the devil is fighting them.
When ex-twiers are going thru hardships.......it's because the "cop-out" has left twi. Same with death. Dozens of my twi-"friends"
have died in the past 25 years while "standing with twi's trustees."
Life moves on quickly for all of us. Keep moving.
.
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waysider
Yeah, sure. But, if I don't pepper my conversation with TWI clichés, what am I 'sposed to talk about?
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Rocky
Btw, how EVIL is the concept of the "doulos?" Slave to the Lord in concept but slave to the TWI hierarchy in practice. No thank you. The entire concept, as I recall (having left twi 25 years ago) as it was taught and practiced, was counter to the dignity of the individual, made a mockery of free will and engendered mental laziness (since the doulos only had to follow orders, not figure things out for her/himself).
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HAPe4me
And even more sadly, many TWI parents raised their kids with the same standard of doing what they are told and not having to think things for themselves. Thankfully not all of us fell into that trap.
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