Absolutely. Bullying is at the very core of the TWI lifestyle, once you advance beyond the basic, local twig level. Many people don't recognize bullying because they've been conditioned to think of it as something a school yard thug does or something a group of adolescent girls do to each other. Bullying is much more than that. Some of the worst (most adept) bullies I've ever known are expert at hiding the true nature behind their smiles and deceitful facades. There are hallmark characteristics that identify bully-like behavior. You don't have to look too far to find them in the TWI organization.
I'm not sure what you mean by "user-supported". The bully is usually someone who has authority over the one being bullied, like a supervisor or manager. My personal experience is that, once the bully sets his sights on you, your chances of winning are slim to none. That'a when you have to ramp up the search for other employment. And, the sad thing is, there are virtually no laws against it in the U.S.A. (Several other major countries do have laws to curb this sort of thing.)
I might be wrong on this but I believe you're thinking of codependency...quite a vicious creature in its own right but not the same as workplace bullying.
The "perpetrated by management" is easier to detect and document. imo
Even when you can document it, there is little that can be done because the law only benefits you if you are part of a protected class AND can prove you were harassed BECAUSE of that. Many of us, for example are part of a protected class--we are senior citizens. You must prove you were bullied and harassed SPECIFICALLY for that reason. That's difficult to do because you don't know the intent that was in someone else's mind.
One thing that complicates workplace bullying is that a lot of people, especially those who aspire to be managers, vice presidents, etc., believe that they have to be aggressive and willing to be a serial bully in order to advance in the company. One cultural example of this is Demi Moore's character in the movie 'Disclosure'. All the press about that movie focused solely on the sexual angle, but her character was a classic serial bully. THAT was the real theme of the movie, not the sexual harassment. Her character was replaced by a woman who was not a bully and things got a whole lot better, not just for Michael Douglas' character, but for the whole company morale.
It's probably true that men (at the workplace) are more likely to behave that way than women, but in most companies, the higher up you go, the more hostile the bullying environment is. I personally found that, in twi, the regular joe believers who were bullys tended to stick out like a sore thumb.
That's difficult to do because you don't know the intent that was in someone else's mind.
That's a good point. The bully will lie about intent. Probably cause the bully does not really know, and would not admit, that it's a power/control/ego/bastard type thing.
What I'm seeing is that the threat of losing your job is constantly pointed out. And the threat does not exist. The bully (a woman) has made it so that if you don't think the way she does and do things the way she wants it done, that you are at risk of a lost job. She wants you to kiss her butt, or the threat of her wrath is on you. Again there is not a threat of losing the job at all, until she starts lying to your employers. That's when you have to point out the bullying, I believe.
Or at least I had to point it out to my employer. It was and is very weird. This bully has been doing this for 20 years. I had to point it out. Quite a few people did not do anything about this bullying, because of fear of her wrath and lies. Once I did point it out, I found out that most already knew what she was and had been doing. It's not illegal, so they get away with doing it. I'll just keep pointing it out when I need to.
I think the worst part is that the bully rallies other employees against you. I was really thankful to find that article on workplace bullying. It laid it all out what she and her mini bullies have been doing for so many years. I knew about the "Isolation and Control" tactics, cause of a 'previous life' :)/> .
The best way to deal with her (and her 2 little bitches, which includes a man) for me right now is to treat her presence as if she is a zombie, and I'm immune from zombies. See "World War Z".
"I think the worst part is that the bully rallies other employees against you."
This is called "mobbing".
When it's reached this stage, the situation is dire.
You're trying to beat her at a game she's been playing for 20 years (probably much longer). My personal experience has been that ignoring the bullying does not improve the situation. And, confronting the bully juices them up. They actually like confrontation. It's time to look for a work situation that isn't so toxic. (IMO)
If it's any consolation, serial bullies usually target the brightest and the best employees. They leave the slackers alone. (I know, that sounds counter-intuitive.)
Sometimes it's hard to know if you're being bullied.
Did the boss pile all that extra work on me (and not someone else) because he thought I was the most capable? Are my deadlines and quotas much tougher to meet than the other employees' because my projects are more critical?
.....or am I being set up to fail?
All the while, the bully may smile and pretend to have your well-being in mind.
When and if the hammer comes down, it all becomes very clear in retrospect.
Anyways, getting back to TWI bullying....yeah, apparently the women in our local region area were directed to scream out 'rapist' if I approached any of them to talk about the goings on in the organization lol. Also had 2 of their goons ( one was bro-in-law ) turn up on doorstep to beat me up. Again, all on the premise I would 'spill the beans' to their people about goings on in the corps. We had bro-in-law calling home phone to persuade my wife and kids to leave me. Letters written stating our kids would turn out homo because we walked away etc...For an outfit teaching 'no fear' they sure harbor lots of it
Anyways, getting back to TWI bullying....yeah, apparently the women in our local region area were directed to scream out 'rapist' if I approached any of them to talk about the goings on in the organization lol. Also had 2 of their goons ( one was bro-in-law ) turn up on doorstep to beat me up. Again, all on the premise I would 'spill the beans' to their people about goings on in the corps. We had bro-in-law calling home phone to persuade my wife and kids to leave me. Letters written stating our kids would turn out homo because we walked away etc...For an outfit teaching 'no fear' they sure harbor lots of it :biglaugh:/>
Then at a recent family gathering ( I wasn't there ) sister-in-law ( the one who wrote the nasty letters )came up to wife and said "wouldn't it be nice if we could all be pleasant to one another"...no apologies, no gee I'm sorry for what we've said and done to you guys...I think they're pretty screwed in the head to be honest, the whole, if not double minded, then double faced or masked, has affected many of them...unstable
Here's one that twi thought that they knew and accused each other of doing. And while, in their accusing they were doing it to a degree that I doubt many have seen outside of twi or other like abusive sub-cultures.
Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves. This knowledge can be used to perceive the bully's own misdemeanours; for instance, when the allegations are of financial or sexual impropriety, it is likely that the bully has committed these acts; when the bully makes an allegation of abuse (such allegations tend to be vague and non-specific), it is likely to be the bully who has committed the abuse. When the bully makes allegations of, say, "cowardice" or "negative attitude" it is the bully who is a coward or has a negative attitude.
In these circumstances, the bully has to understand that if specious and insubstantive allegations are made, the bully will also be investigated.
When the symptoms of psychiatric injury become apparent to others, most bullies will play the Mental Health Trap, claiming their target is "mentally ill" or "mentally unstable" or has a "mental health problem". It is more likely that this allegation is a projection of the bully's own mental health problems. If this trap is being used on you, assert "projection" as a defence against disciplinary action or as part of your legal proceedings.
It is a key identifying feature of a person with a personality disorder or psychopathic personality that, when called to account, they will accuse the person who is unmasking them of being the one with the personality disorder or psychopathic personality from which they (the bully) suffer."
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waysider
Absolutely. Bullying is at the very core of the TWI lifestyle, once you advance beyond the basic, local twig level. Many people don't recognize bullying because they've been conditioned to think of it as something a school yard thug does or something a group of adolescent girls do to each other. Bullying is much more than that. Some of the worst (most adept) bullies I've ever known are expert at hiding the true nature behind their smiles and deceitful facades. There are hallmark characteristics that identify bully-like behavior. You don't have to look too far to find them in the TWI organization.
"God Bless! We sure love you."
WBI
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Ham
These websites have not considered user-supported bullying. The solution to that is pretty simple..
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waysider
Ham
I'm not sure what you mean by "user-supported". The bully is usually someone who has authority over the one being bullied, like a supervisor or manager. My personal experience is that, once the bully sets his sights on you, your chances of winning are slim to none. That'a when you have to ramp up the search for other employment. And, the sad thing is, there are virtually no laws against it in the U.S.A. (Several other major countries do have laws to curb this sort of thing.)
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Ham
I'm thinking of personal relationships. Generally, where one can simply pull the plug..
I've never kicked anyone out of my life.. at least up until now..
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waysider
I might be wrong on this but I believe you're thinking of codependency...quite a vicious creature in its own right but not the same as workplace bullying.
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cman
I was thinking more the horizontal type bullying.
It's this type that goes undetected, even by the victim.
And it's much harder to prove.
The "perpetrated by management" is easier to detect and document. imo
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waysider
Even when you can document it, there is little that can be done because the law only benefits you if you are part of a protected class AND can prove you were harassed BECAUSE of that. Many of us, for example are part of a protected class--we are senior citizens. You must prove you were bullied and harassed SPECIFICALLY for that reason. That's difficult to do because you don't know the intent that was in someone else's mind.
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johniam
One thing that complicates workplace bullying is that a lot of people, especially those who aspire to be managers, vice presidents, etc., believe that they have to be aggressive and willing to be a serial bully in order to advance in the company. One cultural example of this is Demi Moore's character in the movie 'Disclosure'. All the press about that movie focused solely on the sexual angle, but her character was a classic serial bully. THAT was the real theme of the movie, not the sexual harassment. Her character was replaced by a woman who was not a bully and things got a whole lot better, not just for Michael Douglas' character, but for the whole company morale.
It's probably true that men (at the workplace) are more likely to behave that way than women, but in most companies, the higher up you go, the more hostile the bullying environment is. I personally found that, in twi, the regular joe believers who were bullys tended to stick out like a sore thumb.
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cman
That's a good point. The bully will lie about intent. Probably cause the bully does not really know, and would not admit, that it's a power/control/ego/bastard type thing.
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cman
What I'm seeing is that the threat of losing your job is constantly pointed out. And the threat does not exist. The bully (a woman) has made it so that if you don't think the way she does and do things the way she wants it done, that you are at risk of a lost job. She wants you to kiss her butt, or the threat of her wrath is on you. Again there is not a threat of losing the job at all, until she starts lying to your employers. That's when you have to point out the bullying, I believe.
Or at least I had to point it out to my employer. It was and is very weird. This bully has been doing this for 20 years. I had to point it out. Quite a few people did not do anything about this bullying, because of fear of her wrath and lies. Once I did point it out, I found out that most already knew what she was and had been doing. It's not illegal, so they get away with doing it. I'll just keep pointing it out when I need to.
I think the worst part is that the bully rallies other employees against you. I was really thankful to find that article on workplace bullying. It laid it all out what she and her mini bullies have been doing for so many years. I knew about the "Isolation and Control" tactics, cause of a 'previous life' :)/> .
The best way to deal with her (and her 2 little bitches, which includes a man) for me right now is to treat her presence as if she is a zombie, and I'm immune from zombies. See "World War Z".
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waysider
"I think the worst part is that the bully rallies other employees against you."
This is called "mobbing".
When it's reached this stage, the situation is dire.
You're trying to beat her at a game she's been playing for 20 years (probably much longer). My personal experience has been that ignoring the bullying does not improve the situation. And, confronting the bully juices them up. They actually like confrontation. It's time to look for a work situation that isn't so toxic. (IMO)
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cman
Thanks for the concern waysider, I really do appreciate it.
I ignore her bullying but I will report it as needed. And she knows it now, I guess?(quite insane they are), so she just sits and fumes.
I like my job, so I'm not going to let her run me off like she has done to others.
My employers know about it too, so that is a big help and relief.
You are right, but I'm not stupid, and she does not know that.
Besides I beat twi at it's own game, I can handle this wannabe.
world war z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFcbdMrtmzc
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waysider
If it's any consolation, serial bullies usually target the brightest and the best employees. They leave the slackers alone. (I know, that sounds counter-intuitive.)
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Ham
I don't think it is counter intuitive. The Brightest and best are the most "dangerous" to Nurse Ratched's Position of Authority..
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Kit Sober
Good to recognize and be aware of. (Knowing the truth of a situation truly is free-ing.)
I was a victim of bullying at my last job. Reading this helped me.
Thanks for this. :)
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Rocky
Winning through Intimidation
It's ingrained in American economic culture, unfortunately.
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waysider
We live in a society that puts a high value on selfish behavior.
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cman
You are welcome, and thanks for helping me and others with your posts as well.
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waysider
Sometimes it's hard to know if you're being bullied.
Did the boss pile all that extra work on me (and not someone else) because he thought I was the most capable? Are my deadlines and quotas much tougher to meet than the other employees' because my projects are more critical?
.....or am I being set up to fail?
All the while, the bully may smile and pretend to have your well-being in mind.
When and if the hammer comes down, it all becomes very clear in retrospect.
By then, it's too late.
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Allan
Anyways, getting back to TWI bullying....yeah, apparently the women in our local region area were directed to scream out 'rapist' if I approached any of them to talk about the goings on in the organization lol. Also had 2 of their goons ( one was bro-in-law ) turn up on doorstep to beat me up. Again, all on the premise I would 'spill the beans' to their people about goings on in the corps. We had bro-in-law calling home phone to persuade my wife and kids to leave me. Letters written stating our kids would turn out homo because we walked away etc...For an outfit teaching 'no fear' they sure harbor lots of it
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waysider
Chalk one up for "more harmony in the home".
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Allan
Then at a recent family gathering ( I wasn't there ) sister-in-law ( the one who wrote the nasty letters )came up to wife and said "wouldn't it be nice if we could all be pleasant to one another"...no apologies, no gee I'm sorry for what we've said and done to you guys...I think they're pretty screwed in the head to be honest, the whole, if not double minded, then double faced or masked, has affected many of them...unstable
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cman
Here's one that twi thought that they knew and accused each other of doing. And while, in their accusing they were doing it to a degree that I doubt many have seen outside of twi or other like abusive sub-cultures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Projection. O yeah! If it could be graded, they have the highest score.
This is a terrible and deadly attack to use on people.
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waysider
"Projection
Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves. This knowledge can be used to perceive the bully's own misdemeanours; for instance, when the allegations are of financial or sexual impropriety, it is likely that the bully has committed these acts; when the bully makes an allegation of abuse (such allegations tend to be vague and non-specific), it is likely to be the bully who has committed the abuse. When the bully makes allegations of, say, "cowardice" or "negative attitude" it is the bully who is a coward or has a negative attitude.
In these circumstances, the bully has to understand that if specious and insubstantive allegations are made, the bully will also be investigated.
When the symptoms of psychiatric injury become apparent to others, most bullies will play the Mental Health Trap, claiming their target is "mentally ill" or "mentally unstable" or has a "mental health problem". It is more likely that this allegation is a projection of the bully's own mental health problems. If this trap is being used on you, assert "projection" as a defence against disciplinary action or as part of your legal proceedings.
It is a key identifying feature of a person with a personality disorder or psychopathic personality that, when called to account, they will accuse the person who is unmasking them of being the one with the personality disorder or psychopathic personality from which they (the bully) suffer."
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