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  • 3 weeks later...

I guess the question is although he was wrong about the law of believing to the extent he taught it. Surely the bible talks about faith and the importance of it. I don't think faith or belief can grow limbs on an amputee and i now doubt the story he told of healing the indian mans arm but is there no truth to what he said? is there any good that came out of it? Or do people believe he was bad and all that he did was bad? I obviously don't know much about this guy except the people closest to him almost worship him. Clearly his death shows that he was wrong to the extent that what you believe always happens etc but some of his stuff seems to be on point. I'm left confused about my experiences the last 2 years tumbling down the wierwille rabbithole reading all of his material and trying to apply it. I know i started speaking in tongues and grew closer to God more because of his work but i wonder if some here feel that any good they got from him isnt worth the bad? I just need to know more, to know if I should remove all his material from my pc and phone etc yet something about him and his work compels me to share his work and sort of excuse his shortcomings which a lot of his close friends like john schoenheit seem to do.

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7 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

excuse his shortcomings

I don't know how you excuse serial rape, misogyny, bigotry, false doctrine, narcissism, etc. 

Since you asked, yes you should get rid of what's on your pc and phone. If you want to share something with someone tell them Jesus Christ loves them now and forever. You don't need a class or a syllabus for that. :rolleyes:

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Just now, JayDee said:

I don't know how you excuse serial rape, misogyny, bigotry, false doctrine, narcissism, etc. 

Since you asked, yes you should get rid of what's on your pc and phone. If you want to share something with someone tell them Jesus Christ loves them now and forever. You don't need a class or a syllabus for that. :rolleyes:

Is there anyone you recommend instead of wierwille then? Just reading some of the stuff he did is just unbelievable. I feel effected by the cult even though i was barely involved. Reading all his material and soaking it in as my "friend" told me to do has me really messed in the head right now. Is the consensus that stfs material is just as bad? i feel sort of brainwashed now. I really do feel like some good came out of his material but i didn't know all this stuff about him and my "friend" who disappeared all of a sudden, either tricked me or is brainwashed himself. I really do believe he believes in what weirwille taught. I just don't know what to believe anymore. On one hand you have some teachings that seem to stick and work on another the man who taught these things was a terrible person so how does one figure out what is real anymore. It's like my entire world is crashed and i never step foot in the ways building and this all started from meeting one person on an internet forum.Sigh:/

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4 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

Is there anyone you recommend instead of wierwille then? Just reading some of the stuff he did is just unbelievable. I feel effected by the cult even though i was barely involved. Reading all his material and soaking it in as my "friend" told me to do has me really messed in the head right now. Is the consensus that stfs material is just as bad? i feel sort of brainwashed now. I really do feel like some good came out of his material but i didn't know all this stuff about him and my "friend" who disappeared all of a sudden, either tricked me or is brainwashed himself. I really do believe he believes in what weirwille taught. I just don't know what to believe anymore. On one hand you have some teachings that seem to stick and work on another the man who taught these things was a terrible person so how does one figure out what is real anymore. It's like my entire world is crashed and i never step foot in the ways building and this all started from meeting one person on an internet forum.Sigh:/

Sorry your "friend" has caused you so much angst. My suggestion is to read your bible. Several versions. Take your time, there's no hurry. Meditate on what you're reading. Pray. Talk things over with the Lord. He's good. He won't let you down. 

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Welcome to GSC. I hope we'll be able to help you resolve some of the confusion you may have.

See, here's the thing about his death. He taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. In not so many words, what he implied was that people with cancer are "possessed".  He died of cancer. His brother, "Uncle Harry, died of cancer. His son, Don, died of cancer. Do you see a pattern?

 

Now, what we have here is a dilemma. If he was right in what he taught about cancer, we were following the teachings of a man who was possessed. If  he was wrong in what he taught about cancer, he could have been wrong about anything and everything. It all comes down to credibility.

 

As to what he taught, via his classes and books and so on, the vast majority of it was plagiarized material, sometimes whole paragraphs, even whole chapters and. yes, even entire books. This, despite the wild claims he made about God talking to him directly and having exclusive knowledge that hadn't been known for 2,000 years.

 

I've gotten off-topic. This thread is simply to let people know the truth about the cause of his demise. There are probably many who still have no idea.

Edited by waysider
corrected a verb tense
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9 minutes ago, waysider said:

Welcome to GSC. I hope we'll be able to help you resolve some of the confusion you may have.

See, here's the thing about his death. He taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. In not so many words, what he implied was that people with cancer are "possessed".  He died of cancer. His brother, "Uncle Harry, died of cancer. His son, Don, died of cancer. Do you see a pattern?

 

Now, what we have here is a dilemma. If he was right in what he taught about cancer, we were following the teachings of a man who was possessed. If  he was wrong in what he taught about cancer, he could have been wrong about anything and everything. It all comes down to credibility.

 

As to what he taught, via his classes and books and so on, the vast majority of it was plagiarized material, sometimes whole paragraphs, even whole chapters and. yes, even entire books. This, despite the wild claims he made about God talking to him directly and have exclusive knowledge that hadn't been known for 2,000 years.

 

I've gotten off-topic. This thread is simply to let people know the truth about the cause of his demise. There are probably many who still have no idea.

So is there anyone credible in your opinion? What is your view on say the trinity for instance? Most of what I believe doctrine wise is from wierwilles and stfs books so i'm finding all of this stuff kind of shocking to say the least. All I want is the truth and I thought I found the truth with weirwille and stfs material but since they aren't credible i really don't know what I believe anymore.

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I wouldn't rush into anything too quickly. Pick something specific that interests you and explore that before expanding out on a bunch of tangents. Almost any subject you can think of has been discussed here over the years. We can help you find those discussions or help you initiate a new discussion.

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14 minutes ago, waysider said:

I wouldn't rush into anything too quickly. Pick something specific that interests you and explore that before expanding out on a bunch of tangents. Almost any subject you can think of has been discussed here over the years. We can help you find those discussions or help you initiate a new discussion.

Alright I'm going to spend some time digging deep into this forum especially in the doctrinal forum. I appreciate all the responses from everyone. It seems I sort of overreacted but I'm just going to try and forget everything I learned from weirwille and stf until I look at all the evidence on this forum.

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1 hour ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

I guess the question is although he was wrong about the law of believing to the extent he taught it. Surely the bible talks about faith and the importance of it. I don't think faith or belief can grow limbs on an amputee and i now doubt the story he told of healing the indian mans arm but is there no truth to what he said? is there any good that came out of it? Or do people believe he was bad and all that he did was bad? I obviously don't know much about this guy except the people closest to him almost worship him. Clearly his death shows that he was wrong to the extent that what you believe always happens etc but some of his stuff seems to be on point. I'm left confused about my experiences the last 2 years tumbling down the wierwille rabbithole reading all of his material and trying to apply it. I know i started speaking in tongues and grew closer to God more because of his work but i wonder if some here feel that any good they got from him isnt worth the bad? I just need to know more, to know if I should remove all his material from my pc and phone etc yet something about him and his work compels me to share his work and sort of excuse his shortcomings which a lot of his close friends like john schoenheit seem to do.

How do you know that? How long have you been reading GSC forums?

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1 hour ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

Is there anyone you recommend instead of wierwille then? Just reading some of the stuff he did is just unbelievable. I feel effected by the cult even though i was barely involved. Reading all his material and soaking it in as my "friend" told me to do has me really messed in the head right now. Is the consensus that stfs material is just as bad? i feel sort of brainwashed now. I really do feel like some good came out of his material but i didn't know all this stuff about him and my "friend" who disappeared all of a sudden, either tricked me or is brainwashed himself. I really do believe he believes in what weirwille taught. I just don't know what to believe anymore. On one hand you have some teachings that seem to stick and work on another the man who taught these things was a terrible person so how does one figure out what is real anymore. It's like my entire world is crashed and i never step foot in the ways building and this all started from meeting one person on an internet forum.Sigh:/

All of what material? I thought you said in another thread that you only had a pdf of The Bible Tells Me So.

Why do you sound like a TWI troll?

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3 minutes ago, Rocky said:

All of what material? I thought you said in another thread that you only had a pdf of The Bible Tells Me So.

Why do you sound like a TWI troll?

I downloaded a torrent which contained the following books. Christians should be prosperous,Gods magnified word, Jesus Christ is not God, Jesus Christ our passover, Jesus Christ our promised seed,order my steps in thy word, pfal, receiving the holy spirit today, the bible tells me so, the new dynamic church, the words way, and are the dead alive now. All of which I have read. If I sound like a troll it is because I don't know much about twi and actually thought they were good when it turns out they were worse than i couldve imagined. I am just a noob when it comes to knowing the way because my friend sort of scammed me into thinking the way and weirwille and his material were all legit. I believe he truly believes it and meant good but it screwed me because i went full out in the law of believing stuff.

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11 minutes ago, Rocky said:

How do you know that? How long have you been reading GSC forums?

I just started today so if I sound ignorant on something its because I actually don't know. And I was talking in particular about schoenheit and my friend who was taught by a guy who was personally taught by weirwille. And these people say things like weirwille wasnt perfect but who is and they just excuse his behavior. Thats just what I currently know. I know not all think highly of weirwille as seen in this forum but i don't know who here actually knew the guy. So i'm still learning and trying to sort this situation out. I listened to johns tape new lift in christ and he talks about how a "great man" taught him and obv thats weirwille but everyone here is saying weirwille was not a great man so why does john think so?

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3 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

I downloaded a torrent which contained the following books. Christians should be prosperous,Gods magnified word, Jesus Christ is not God, Jesus Christ our passover, Jesus Christ our promised seed,order my steps in thy word, pfal, receiving the holy spirit today, the bible tells me so, the new dynamic church, the words way, and are the dead alive now. All of which I have read. If I sound like a troll it is because I don't know much about twi and actually thought they were good when it turns out they were worse than i couldve imagined. I am just a noob when it comes to knowing the way because my friend sort of scammed me into thinking the way and weirwille and his material were all legit. I believe he truly believes it and meant good but it screwed me because i went full out in the law of believing stuff.

Wow... I suspect your friend meant well. But as Wierwille himself used to say, "sincerity is no guarantee for truth." I replied to you on another thread and mentioned that 42 years ago I initially bought into the believing stuff a bit too much. For me, it was about believing (or trying to) that God would "heal my eyesight" so I wouldn't need to wear glasses. I wish I would have realized then that Wierwille was a charlatan.

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4 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

I just started today so if I sound ignorant on something its because I actually don't know. And I was talking in particular about schoenheit and my friend who was taught by a guy who was personally taught by weirwille. And these people say things like weirwille wasnt perfect but who is and they just excuse his behavior. Thats just what I currently know. I know not all think highly of weirwille as seen in this forum but i don't know who here actually knew the guy. So i'm still learning and trying to sort this situation out. I listened to johns tape new lift in christ and he talks about how a "great man" taught him and obv thats weirwille but everyone here is saying weirwille was not a great man so why does john think so?

I knew Wierwille. He was a very mean, narcissistic person. However, he obviously also had a public persona that was very charming. That charm essentially mesmerized people and made Wierwille rich.

Yes, different people have different views of him.

Keep reading in this forum and you'll learn from people's first hand experience with him.

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1 minute ago, Rocky said:

Wow... I suspect your friend meant well. But as Wierwille himself used to say, "sincerity is no guarantee for truth." I replied to you on another thread and mentioned that 42 years ago I initially bought into the believing stuff a bit too much. For me, it was about believing (or trying to) that God would "heal my eyesight" so I wouldn't need to wear glasses. I wish I would have realized then that Wierwille was a charlatan.

Yeah I'm sure he really believes what he told me and i honestly don't know how weirwille was such a good con artist. I see other cults and think wow how could someone be so stupid to fall for that, then it seems I fell for one myself. It is mainly because we all want something in this life and the cults offer it to us and make it seem easy.

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2 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

Yeah I'm sure he really believes what he told me and i honestly don't know how weirwille was such a good con artist. I see other cults and think wow how could someone be so stupid to fall for that, then it seems I fell for one myself. It is mainly because we all want something in this life and the cults offer it to us and make it seem easy.

You sound young. Indeed, Wierwille was a conman. Don't beat yourself up. Everybody falls for confidence games some time or another. The key is to develop critical thinking skills. That's obviously oversimplified, but I wish you well in your quest.

I'd also recommend Charlene Edge's recently published memoir of her 17 year journey with TWI. Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International.

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Just now, Rocky said:

You sound young. Indeed, Wierwille was a conman. Don't beat yourself up. Everybody falls for confidence games some time or another. The key is to develop critical thinking skills. That's obviously oversimplified, but I wish you well in your quest.

I'd also recommend Charlene Edge's recently published memoir of her 17 year journey with TWI. Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International.

Yeah i'm 27 not sure if thats young anymore lol. I will definitely give that a read. Also what do you think about the book "The cult that snapped".https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/35199  I was thinking about getting that as well.

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54 minutes ago, ImLikeSoConfused said:

Yeah i'm 27 not sure if thats young anymore lol. I will definitely give that a read. Also what do you think about the book "The cult that snapped".https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/35199  I was thinking about getting that as well.

Karl's book is also very good... as is Losing the Way by Kristen Skedgell.

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Let' see, I also thought troll and Rocky seems to be on that thought as well.

Regardless, welcome the trolls.  You know, there are probably no old TWI folks who are trolls, just kids.  Let them read away and get some education.

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46 minutes ago, MRAP said:

Let' see, I also thought troll and Rocky seems to be on that thought as well.

Regardless, welcome the trolls.  You know, there are probably no old TWI folks who are trolls, just kids.  Let them read away and get some education.

Well... sorta. Trolls can be disruptive and counterproductive. But asking for clarification is good and then when the new person clarifies, that's even better. And we have had plenty of trolls over the years.

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Hey, I was thought to be a troll after I first got on GSC because of my statements about the REV.  That would have been too honest to have been a troll, unless I am playing a REALLY good game of it.  I will just state it here:  if I follow one of the TWI off shoots, does that make me bad?  Really, be logical, an off shoot left TWI.  The off shoots get a bad rap because of past TWI affiliation, shoot, we all had past TWI affiliation!  Really, what can a troll do here on this site, why troll it to begin with?  I don't know who would troll GSC, what would TWI gain from It, that's a question.  Now I follow STF (REV), so, does that make me a troll?  Really, do we need to take some sort of GSC oath.

 

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What we need to do here, MRAP, is (1) be honest; and (2) don't be gullible. 

No oaths of any kind required. 

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/7/2017 at 0:24 AM, Rocky said:

I knew Wierwille. He was a very mean, narcissistic person. However, he obviously also had a public persona that was very charming. That charm essentially mesmerized people and made Wierwille rich.

Yes, different people have different views of him.

Keep reading in this forum and you'll learn from people's first hand experience with him.

I never met him personally, but I heard him teach a number of times.  Boring!!  I never understood why people thought he was such a great man of God; finally one day I realized that people believed what they wanted to believe about him. Quite frankly, I remember the day he died.  Gee, that isn't that sad!  I wonder what I am getting to have for dinner; I have to go now.

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On 2/6/2017 at 10:26 PM, ImLikeSoConfused said:

I guess the question is although he was wrong about the law of believing to the extent he taught it. Surely the bible talks about faith and the importance of it. I don't think faith or belief can grow limbs on an amputee and i now doubt the story he told of healing the indian mans arm but is there no truth to what he said? is there any good that came out of it? Or do people believe he was bad and all that he did was bad? I obviously don't know much about this guy except the people closest to him almost worship him. Clearly his death shows that he was wrong to the extent that what you believe always happens etc but some of his stuff seems to be on point. I'm left confused about my experiences the last 2 years tumbling down the wierwille rabbithole reading all of his material and trying to apply it. I know i started speaking in tongues and grew closer to God more because of his work but i wonder if some here feel that any good they got from him isnt worth the bad? I just need to know more, to know if I should remove all his material from my pc and phone etc yet something about him and his work compels me to share his work and sort of excuse his shortcomings which a lot of his close friends like john schoenheit seem to do.

Honey, I know you have a lot of questions about TWI.  For what it's worth, write down your questions on a piece of paper.  Most of them will probably be answered somewhere in the GSC.  Just be patient, a lot of your questions will be answered in time.  I have been out since 1988, and I am still learning about the Evilness of VPW, and TWI.

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